David & Jay's Touring Toolshed on BBC2, tonight

[leccyflyer]

David & Jay's Touring Toolshed on BBC2, tonight's episode features BMFA's Dave Phipps and renovation of a classic Astro Hog model.

BBC Two - 6:30pm or if you missed it, like me, watch it on the iPlayer.

 

 

 

 

[Tim Hooper]

I've been enjoying the series - to a degree.

 

Yes, it's a vehicle for two well-known blokes to have a bit of a larf, but they have been sympathetic to a variety of hobbies  - including ours.

 

It can't have done us any harm anyway.

 

Tim

 

 

[Geoff S]

I watched it for the first time and I was glad to do it on the iPlayer so I could skip the boring bits.  I can't say I was impressed, mainly because it was so superficial - nothing was covered properly. Obviously it didn't do us any harm and the Astro Hog eventually flew (at Buckminster, I think). 

 

I liked the Reliant bit. I can remember when sub 5cwt 3 wheelers were popular because you could drive them on a motor-cycle licence. There were a lot around in the 50s and 60s (Bond Minicars, Meschersmitts, BMW Isettas, Berkeley etc). I was surprised the Reliant designer never mentioned the sporty Scimitars  - they had 4 wheels.  There was a garage at Newhaven, Derbyshire that specialised in them at one time.

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

That takes me back - when I started model flying, I was a motorcyclist and didn't see much future in trying to transport my models and kit on the pillion of my Bonneville...

 

After relying on lifts from friends for a month or two (thanks to Brian Cooper of this forum in particular) and lacking a car licence, I invested in a Supervan III - famous as the choice of Trotter's Independent Trading.  Unfortunately it fell over rather terminally one morning while avoiding a wayward Mini so I transferred the engine and transmission into a friend's spare saloon body.  That fell over after hitting a deep puddle one particularly wet morning resulting in the loss of my unbreakable Lumpers trainer (which had survived the rigours of my training on Croxley Moor) to an assault from various tumbling tool boxes and other paraphernalia.  I did repair it but soon "upgraded" to a Bond Bug.  That fell over just after leaving the local model shop after a master cylinder malfunction but after rolling it back from its inverted resting place and letting the oil drain back into the sump, restarted and got me home to straighten out the squashed roof.  Slightly embarrassing was when I collected a Mick Reeves Hurricane kit from a local dealer at our club night...and the box wouldn't fit in the passenger side!

 

In later years, I progressed to a Scimitar which I thoroughly enjoyed for many thousands of miles over a couple of decades.  There were two Reliant factories - one either side of the A5 in Tamworth so although the same company, I believe there was little daily connection between 3 and 4 wheel production - perhaps why the 3 wheel "team" made no mention of Scimitars?

[Peter Christy]

I never understood the logic of having one wheel at the front and two at the back! It was always going to liable to tipping over while travelling forward. The Morgan design (two at the front and one at the rear) made much more sense, and whilst they too were not regarded as particularly safe or stable, that was more to do with the ludicrous power-to-weight ratio than the layout! 🤣

 

--

Pete

 

[leccyflyer]

I found the programme to be a bit underwhelming and, as mentioned above, superficial. I'd be very surprised if Dave Phipps needs to learn how to put a receiver and replacement engine in an Astro Hog, plus a few drops of CA on the rudder. Probably no harm done, but it could have been done a lot better. It's a pity, because I like Jay Blades in his other programmes.

[Engine Doctor]

The show can be entertaining but the aero modelling bit last night shows just how concocted the show is and was rubbish . A flyer who's been flying for years who doesnt know how to fit out a simple model like an Astro hog without the help of an "expert" complete with Biggles sheepskin jacket on what was obviously a very warm day , really ? The bit about Reliant cars was just as poor due to trying to cover too much  in a short time. And Sir David Jason trying to be funny isnt working , hes not funny without a Fools and horses script.

Loosing interest fast in the show .

Even the Repair Shop spends more time telling the tear jerky stories rather than showing the actual repairs being done.

Will there be a second series ? I suspect and hope not.  

Edited January 31 by Engine Doctor

[Rich Griff]

Twas repeated this morning.

 

Reliant "kitten", remember those ?

 

I am sure it will be repeated again, the program that is, so I can watch it from the very beginning.

 

Mode 1 ?

 

Have a great day chaps.

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

8 hours ago, Peter Christy said:

I never understood the logic of having one wheel at the front and two at the back! It was always going to liable to tipping over while travelling forward.

 

An indisputable fact based on personal experience!

 

I suspect it was simply due to evolution from the original motorcycle based commercial vehicles produced by the Reliant company back in the 30s when it was first founded. Using 2 wheels at the back also helped distribute the load of course. The design changed to use an Austin 7 based engine (Austin later sold the tooling and rights to Reliant) and the later aluminium block OHV engines were often retrofitted to Austin 7 based vintage racing cars in later years. 

[john davidson 1]

best watched on i player so you can fast forward the teddy bears, The Repair Shop is riddled with them as well.

[Geoff S]

1 hour ago, Martin Harris - Moderator said:

An indisputable fact based on personal experience!

 

I suspect it was simply due to evolution from the original motorcycle based commercial vehicles produced by the Reliant company back in the 30s when it was first founded. Using 2 wheels at the back also helped distribute the load of course. The design changed to use an Austin 7 based engine (Austin later sold the tooling and rights to Reliant) and the later aluminium OHV blocks were often retrofitted to vintage racing cars in later years. 

 

Back in the 1940s I remember 3 wheelers (vans mostly I think) which had motorcycle girder forks sticking out the front. As a young child, I was convinced there was a whole motorcycle inside, fuel tank, engine, saddle and all!  Would they have been early examples of Reliants?

 

Brough Superior had a motorcycle with 2 closely couple rear wheels with a shaft drive between them with an Austin 7 engine.  They were intended for sidecar use. I don't think they went into mass-production - even in BS terms!

Edited January 31 by Geoff S

[GrumpyGnome]

I expect two driven wheels at the back, and one steering at the front us cheaper/easier to manufacture than having two driven, steering wheels at front.....

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

Just for Geoff:

 

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

No swearing please. 😉

[Eric Robson]

1 hour ago, Martin Harris - Moderator said:

Just for Geoff:

 

My father in law had a BSA bantam which he had failed several driving tests on, given the opportunity to buy a Reliant van like the one above for £10 it was a none runner fitted with  a Ford 10 engine. I was given the task of getting it roadworthy and taking him out as the accompanying driver. After a test run and some tuition on a disused straight road we set off, I asked him to take the next right ,as he approached he moved the steering wheel slightly and leaned over to the right, I had to grab the wheel and yank it over to avoid a  brick wall.  He decided to stick with the Bantam and 3or 4 tests later he passed just before he was due to retire. 

I might add his daughter was the same, would not be told what to do.

Edited January 31 by Eric Robson

[Geoff S]

1 hour ago, Martin Harris - Moderator said:

Just for Geoff:

 

 

They're the ones I remember from nearly 80 years ago!  I still think handlebars to be more appropriate than a steering wheel 🙂

 

My father attempted to teach my mother's grandfather how to drive back in the 1930s (no test).  He owned and drove steam traction engines to haul timber from trees he felled. He refused to change gear in motion because it 'would damage the gearbox' but selected a suitable gear before setting off.  Fortunately, it was an ex army big Humber with lots of torque and in the flattish Nottinghamshire lanes could actually set off in top.  His steering method was terrifying - he tried to spin the wheel as you would on a big engine until taught otherwise.

[Graham Bowers]

9 hours ago, leccyflyer said:

I found the programme to be a bit underwhelming and, as mentioned above, superficial. I'd be very surprised if Dave Phipps needs to learn how to put a receiver and replacement engine in an Astro Hog, plus a few drops of CA on the rudder. Probably no harm done, but it could have been done a lot better. It's a pity, because I like Jay Blades in his other programmes.

Yes. However, in context it's an entertainment programme.

 

We aeromodellers can spot all of the daft stuff, but are not the intended audience. If it places us in better light, and Dave Phipps didn't have to bite his lip too hard, than all to the good.

[Basil]

13 hours ago, Martin Harris - Moderator said:

Just for Geoff:

 

I remember seeing these, or similar , about common place.

[MattyB]

 

13 hours ago, Graham Bowers said:

Yes. However, in context it's an entertainment programme.

 

We aeromodellers can spot all of the daft stuff, but are not the intended audience. If it places us in better light, and Dave Phipps didn't have to bite his lip too hard, than all to the good.

 

Completely agree. If the BBC made the programme that many in this thread are espousing, the mass audience would turn off within the first 10 minutes. These days programmes have to pay their way (see clip below from Richard Osman's new podcast where they talked in detail about this subject), and that wouldn't be the case if they this was s uper detailed, engineering focusseed show. 

 

 

Edited February 1 by MattyB

[leccyflyer]

13 hours ago, Graham Bowers said:

Yes. However, in context it's an entertainment programme.

 

We aeromodellers can spot all of the daft stuff, but are not the intended audience. If it places us in better light, and Dave Phipps didn't have to bite his lip too hard, than all to the good.

The thing is, programmes  like The Repair Shop do show that people do also appreciate the intricacies and skills employed in making the restorations and repairs - the same as with other reality shows. Key to their success is that they include a lot of human interest and emotional content as well and across several topics in any one episode. It's that mix that the general viewers so enjoy, but that mix can include good technical detail as well. I just felt that this particular episode didn't really show very much at all and could have been done better.

[Engine Doctor]

A friend of mine had a Reliant van, the early version with girder forks. The body work was typical coach biult, wooden frame with thin metal vcovering and a canvas treated roof . All ok driving with a couple of mates in the  back until he touched the brakes 😯. The body moved forward on the chassi and knocked it out of gear 😄. Then pulling away if he jerked the clutch the body shifted back and knocked it out of gear😄. To get home we chopped out cover around the gear lever .Got it back  back home and found the enlarged holes in  ( rotten ) chassi and wooden bodywork . We bodged it with some larger washers . MOT  or Ten year test as it was then was very flexible and often depended on how well you knew the tester😉. That Reliant very quickly found its waygo the scrappy. Then the same friend turned up in a Bedford CA , another classic loved by us young uns . Back then  in SW London old bangers were everywhere and often a really nice old car was just abandond by the road. Similar story with our first motorbikes . 

[Graham Bowers]

7 hours ago, leccyflyer said:

The thing is, programmes  like The Repair Shop do show that people do also appreciate the intricacies and skills employed in making the restorations and repairs - the same as with other reality shows. Key to their success is that they include a lot of human interest and emotional content as well and across several topics in any one episode. It's that mix that the general viewers so enjoy, but that mix can include good technical detail as well. I just felt that this particular episode didn't really show very much at all and could have been done better.

I can state categorically that every general media item of which I had first hand knowledge has contained inaccuracies and omissions. 

 

"Could have done better" is a fair appraisal of the programme. Sadly, however, seems to me to be the position of the bar. Which is why I watch almost no TV.

[EvilC57]

I watched the episode on iPlayer as a result of this thread, let’s just say I won’t be watching any more!

 

With regard to the Reliants, my mother had a pale blue ‘Trotter’ type Reliant Robin van in the 1970s, which (as I think I recall) had a lower rate of road tax than the equivalent car. So my father did a mod which I believe was common then, of cutting holes in the side panels and fitting the flat rear windows from a couple of scrapped Ford Anglias, along with a modified back seat from the same - although others may correct me on the source of the bits.

 

I believe he also mentioned bolting some lumps of pig iron underneath to give it some ‘weight’, and stop it jumping around so much on the road. I certainly remember it being a very bumpy ride as the centre front wheel caught every manhole cover etc. which would go between the wheels of a four wheeled car. I also learned to drive on it when I was 17!

[Engine Doctor]

They could also be driven I believe on a motorcycle licence like many three wheelers , although I seem to remember that you had to blank off the reverse gear ? was that correct ?

[Paul De Tourtoulon]

My first, dare I say 'car' was a Bond 3 wheeler, with the 197cc Villiars engine, 3 forward and with the 'dynastart' the engine would run backwards giving 3 reverse gears.