Ranger 2400 - new long range plane

[Xeno7]

(To be clear, I have already figured out what FC / GPS+Compass / Airspeed Sensor / telemetry / etc I want to use. I can figure out Ardupilot)

A question here. I have heard that the stock electronics, motor, esc on Ranger 2400 are fairly trash, so I am thinking of getting the kit and then installing servos, a motor + esc. Any recommendations for the motor + esc? Also what about batteries? I have heard of people flying the ranger 2400 heavy with 8000 - 10000 mAh total (either one battery, or battery stacking) but I want to hear other people's thoughts on this before buying the batteries. Tbh after I get the autopilot sorted out, I don't care that much for how fast it can climb as long as it does so at a decent rate, and doesn't fall out of the sky.

Are https://www.banggood.com/CORONA-DS-929MG-13_6g-Metal-Gear-Digital-Servo-p-1100755.html?utm_source=Youtube&utm_medium=cussku&utm_campaign=ArxangelRC&utm_content=zhikejian&p=6L1818635832201406F2&cur_warehouse=CN these servos any good? Heard them being recommended on a blog of someone who set up his ranger as a long range plane. 

What about li-ion batteries for longer flight time? 

P.S. perhaps should mention this but I don't actually care for more power than the stock motor + esc, I just don't want the motor to give out unexpectedly. Is the stock motor really that bad?

[Ernie]

hi Xeno  It's difficult to advise till we know a wee bit more.  What is a long range plane? Can we see some pictures?

Have you experience of flying models. Generally, the better quality, the more reliable. There is a supplier called 4MAX who supply aeroplane bits that are good value, with excellent advice to help  you decide what you need

 

ernie

[Xeno7]

A long range plane simply means it can stay in the air a lot. I am targeting 2h of flight time. Heard that the ranger 2400 when set up to fly 2h of time, it can go 50km away from you (and the 50km to come back to you). 

Ive flown similar planes to the Ranger 2400 before but not with a long range setup - in general they could stay in the air maybe 5-10 min. The Ardupilot system is an autopilot (a really powerful one!) and I plan to use it to do automated missions, and RTH if I lose connection somehow (which I plan to not do). 

However, so for, I only used planes that came with motors and ESCs from the factory, so I actually do not know what motor/esc I should use for a Ranger 2400 that I want to send on long distance flights. And I keep hearing that the factory motor/esc for Ranger 2400 are poorer in quality and I should install better ones. However, I need some recommendations for what motors and ESCs to buy and use that are fairly power efficient.

[Xeno7]

I kind of want to set up my Ranger 2400 like this YouTuber's plane (problem; all the dragon link telemetry systems are out of stock everywhere) but he does not say what motor / esc he uses. As you can see by his 3rd flight in the video the plane can stay an impressive amount of time midair with the batteries not really that depleted. He also uses li-ion but I don't know how to make li-ion like he did (will look up a guide)

[Xeno7]

http://arxangelrc.blogspot.com/2019/04/volantex-ranger-2400-another-awesome-fpv-plane.html this guy apparently is getting just fine performance out of stock motor and esc but on other reviews I hear that people keep having to replace the motor. Maybe I will go with stock motor and esc and find out myself how good the motor is

Edited March 2 by Xeno7

[GrumpyGnome]

How much red tape is involved in your planned flying? Presumably some is BVLOS.....

[Xeno7]

...yeah. I really wish it was a bit more simple. However I have got most of what I need to do to be allowed to fly BVLOS sorted out, it's just that if I need to have a plane before I can do any kind of flying. Initially I will fly only visual line of sight until I get Ardupilot 100% sorted out and the plane seems reliable.

[Ernie]

This really is a wonderful flying machine that seems to defy so many established principals.

It's a glider, yet there is clearly a wee electric motor on top. It is controlled, but without a transmitter, or even a reciever.

Am I missing something? or has technology moved on so much in the last couple of days?

ernie

[Xeno7]

Im mildly confused on what you are thinking. Ever heard about Ardupilot? It allows you to do fairly insane things. Like fully automate almost any flight you can think of - whether it is stunts w a 3D plane or flying further than your signal range (for obvious reasons, don't do this! Ardupilot is an autopilot it cannot react to unexpected things) on an automated waypoint mission. Im just using it to do some auto missions and (more importantly) have a failsafe in case something goes wrong with my remote control. It also can send telemetry to a laptop (or pc, or mobile device, or one guy trying a steam deck) so you can monitor every aspect of your plane, and more importantly for me, see your plane on a map. 

It can fly better than me which is mildly infuriating.

Also this plane is really good for what I want, but I doubt it is really extraordinary. This type of plane has dominated my (tiny) hangar (garage/attic).

(edit: Ardupilot is not that insane, but it lets you do so many things without having to land your plane first. You can live without it for short to medium range flying

)

Edited March 3 by Xeno7

[Xeno7]

I admit I am better at the more technical side of things like autopilot, mission planner, Ardupilot, etc. You ask me what servos to use and I am clueless (apart from metal > plastic for gears)

[Frank Skilbeck]

You can get Li-ion packs to your configuration off Nick here

 

I got a 6s pack for my EDFs, but Nick will make up what you want. 

 

BTW I have an earlier Ranger (only used LOS), the elevator came off in flight while i was giving our local air cadets some aerobatics via the FPV Googles, they had the googles on and I was flying conventionally, it didn't come out of a loop, but the elevator fluttering down was a bit of a give away 😉 airframe was remarkably robust, just waiting for the elevator to be mended. 

[Xeno7]

Ive heard of the Ranger's elevators falling off if you fly them a long time. Which is why I am thinking of putting hinges onto it. Or clear tape (you don't want to see my Tundra's elevators/ailerons after its very last flight and last crash)

[Simon Chaddock]

I am pretty certain the mechanical reliability of the plane and the electronics when in the air will far exceed what you need provided you keep within the airframe's limits. I am not so sure about the "red tape" for an autonomous distance flight

 

Do Li-ion batteries have a better energy capacity to weight than LiPo?

Batteries always represent a limitation on the duration of any electric powered plane.

Weight is proportional to the power to fly so for "duration" everything must be "fit for purpose" (with a safety margin?) but not beyond if a weight penalty results.

 

Just my two penn'orth!    

[Xeno7]

wait you were doing tricks with a ranger? I always thought this was a long range cruise sort of plane. Maybe if I keep it light I can do fun stuff @Frank Skilbeck

[Xeno7]

li-ion are more energy dense than li-po and lighter, but lower voltage and less amps @Simon Chaddock

[Xeno7]

Good news, I found someone nearby me (quick car journey) which can make li-ion battery packs for me

[Simon Chaddock]

I think you may find the LiPo energy density in Wh/kg of a LiPo can be quite a bit higher than a Li-ion.

LiPo can withstand a much higher discharge rate.

Li-ion are physically and electrically more robust.

 

It all comes down to the requirements of the application.

 

[Xeno7]

For my specific situation li-ions are simply both lighter and more energy dense, and also cheaper, smaller, etc. I can put more of them in my Ranger without it getting too heavy compared to li-po. Plus I can choose how many batteries I want to put in by splitting them into "packs" in order to choose whether I want to fly lighter, maybe catch thermals, or heavier, with more flight time. You can do that with li-po too though. And finally the Ranger doesn't draw that much power when cruising, making li-ion viable.

 

[Frank Skilbeck]

11 hours ago, Simon Chaddock said:

I think you may find the LiPo energy density in Wh/kg of a LiPo can be quite a bit higher than a Li-ion.

LiPo can withstand a much higher discharge rate.

Li-ion are physically and electrically more robust.

 

It all comes down to the requirements of the application.

 

These Li-ions are a bit lighter on a wt per kwh basis, but they do have a bit more internal resistance so don't deliver the power of an equivalent high C lipo and need good cooling. Make sure you have enough weight for it to balance no point putting in a light battery and then adding wt. My Ranger needed two 4000 4s lipos in the nose to balance.

Edited March 4 by Frank Skilbeck

[Frank Skilbeck]

15 hours ago, Xeno7 said:

wait you were doing tricks with a ranger? I always thought this was a long range cruise sort of plane. Maybe if I keep it light I can do fun stuff @Frank Skilbeck

Just about everything will loop!

[Ernie]

please, can someone explain how I can control a model aircraft 50 miles away without a TX or RX

ernie

[leccyflyer]

You don't control it in real time. The flight controller is pre-programmed with a flight path, consisting of waypoints and the infernal device just makes the flight autonomously. Nothing to do with model flying or even radio control.

[Xeno7]

3 hours ago, Frank Skilbeck said:

These Li-ions are a bit lighter on a wt per kwh basis, but they do have a bit more internal resistance so don't deliver the power of an equivalent high C lipo and need good cooling. Make sure you have enough weight for it to balance no point putting in a light battery and then adding wt. My Ranger needed two 4000 4s lipos in the nose to balance.

 

@Frank Skilbeck simple solution. If SOMEHOW after putting 10000 mAh in it still needs weight, put in another 10000 mAh of batteries in! Although I have done the math and I am fairly sure I can balance the plane with 2x 4s 5000 mAh li-ion packs. If my math is wrong the only thing that can happen is that this plane gets more flight time than expected (I intend to get 4x or 6x 5000 mAh packs. They can do more than just power this plane)

@Ernie Ardupilot. You get a flight computer (FC). Then you wire up everything (servos and ESC) to it. Then you get a GPS + compass, barometer (most flight computers have a barometer built in, there is no reason that I know of to use a separate one unless you want more redundancy), a telemetry radio, and you wire it up to your FC. If you also wire it up to your FPV camera and VTX, you get OSD with all the info from all the sensors the FC has access to on it (customisable, but direction to home + distance, or wind direction, is useful stuff to have when flying FPV). If you wire up your RX to the FC you can also control your plane like a normal one, and use your RC's switches to control the autopilot features. Your RC can also get telemetry if you want on its screen if supported (no clue how this works, I get my info via OSD or Mission Planner).

The telemetry radio can communicate with your laptop, phone, etching a second telemetry radio. THat way you can upload waypoints to your plane and it flies itself following the waypoints. 

The Ardupilot system does cost a bit but it unlocks so much info midair. It sounds complex but I recently found out that almost everything works with everything, with few exceptions. You can often get your RX/TX to also act as telemetry radios. Altho without RX/TX or telemetry, your plane 50 miles away is just following waypoints you gave it via Mission planner - the software running on a laptop or PC to control Ardupilot. 

https://ardupilot.org/ardupilot/

Although if you DO want to control your rc plane from 50 miles away without a rx/tx you can put in a 4G telemetry module. A raspberry pi can do this and also send FPV stream via 4G although not the best quality. Then you (sort of) can tell your plane where to fly. Although this is not the best idea to do due to input lag and poor video

@leccyflyeryou answered while I was typing this so I am going to send this anyway
 

Edited March 4 by Xeno7

[Outrunner]

Is this legal in the UK?

[Xeno7]

Flying without RC link? Almost certainly illegal. Although I don't live in UK

I don't know whether a 4G telemetry link counts as an RC link. Also, if you need a 4G link you are probably BVLOS, at which point go look up the UK bvlos laws because I don't know them

Edited March 4 by Xeno7
typo