Ron Gray Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 (edited) I've started a new thread so that Jon Harper won't automatically get drawn in. I suggest any comments regarding order fulfilment / warranty work / recalls etc are put here. It's also the best place to have a right good moan about the situation! Lucky you, one of my 200 inline twins went back to Laser 6 months ago to have a part replaced as there is a design fault (not Jon's fault, he was overruled on the design!) and I still haven't got it back. Jon's been waiting for the parts to be made for the last 6 months which just goes to show what things are like at AGC! Edited April 1 by Martin Harris - Moderator Added clarification from later post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Rickett 102 Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 Ron, I got a 200i for a project which I've had for about a year but still unrun. Can you please advise what the fault is and is it in all of them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Gray Posted March 22 Author Share Posted March 22 John I can't remember the exact details but it doesn't necessarily affect them all, but it could do! For example, one of mine, the one that is back at Laser, has a problem and the other doesn't. It shows up as the motor sounding a bit rough / harsh. I'm not sure if Jon will still come onto this forum but in conversation with him he did say that all 200 inlines should have the 'fix' but as I said above, I've been waiting for 6 months now so the fix, if it does happen will have to be carried out by Jon in his own 'spare' time and that's assuming he gets the parts to do the work. I will give it another few weeks and then pursue the matter, after all the engines weren't cheap! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Rickett 102 Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 Thanks Ron, I read in one of the earlier posts from Jon that product support was being limited to the 200i and wondered what that meant, that post seemed to have disappeared. Hopefully when the dust has settled the situation will become clearer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 Was this what you were thinking of John? Effective immediately we can no longer accept engines back to the factory for service. Other companies offer rebuild services and they should be contacted for your servicing needs. An exception will likely be made for Laser inline engines as I am the only person who knows how to assemble them, but I will discuss this with their respective owners as we go along. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Gray Posted March 23 Author Share Posted March 23 The only problem is that Jon is totally reliant on AGC producing the parts that are necessary to 'fix' these engines, I have no doubt that Jon will do the work if he gets the bits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Rickett 102 Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 Thanks Ron and Martin. Yes that's where I read about the inline engines - I must try to stop speed reading when searching! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith D Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 Myself and a club mate both have unrun 200 inlines. I spoke to John, minutes prior to him leaving on Friday, yes he would do the work, but it is up to us to approach AGC to get the required part. 12 engines were made, perhaps we should arrange to meet up and visit AGC and see how they aim to resolve the issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Davis 2 Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 8 hours ago, Keith D said: Myself and a club mate both have unrun 200 inlines. I spoke to John, minutes prior to him leaving on Friday, yes he would do the work, but it is up to us to approach AGC to get the required part. 12 engines were made, perhaps we should arrange to meet up and visit AGC and see how they aim to resolve the issue. Isn't AGC closing its doors too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Rickett 102 Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 I've written a letter to AGC Sales asking for the rectification plan. In the first instance, I'd suggest each owner does the same. The contact address is on the Laser Engines website which is still active. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Dunne Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 On 22/03/2024 at 13:42, Ron Gray said: Lucky you, one of my 200 inline twins went back to Laser 6 months ago to have a part replaced as there is a design fault (not Jon's fault, he was overruled on the design!) and I still haven't got it back. Jon's been waiting for the parts to be made for the last 6 months which just goes to show what things are like at AGC! Hi Ron, I'm intrigued - my 200i is (so far!) running very well, apart from an occasional vibration issue that causes the carb needles to unwind. I've fixed that myself. Perhaps you can let me know what the issue is, so that I can get it sorted if needs be? Many thanks, Steve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Gray Posted March 24 Author Share Posted March 24 Steve, you would know if yours was affected! The normal smooth sound is replaced by something a lot harsher. I may have a vid of mine, I’ll have to have a look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith D Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 7 hours ago, John Rickett 102 said: I've written a letter to AGC Sales asking for the rectification plan. In the first instance, I'd suggest each owner does the same. The contact address is on the Laser Engines website which is still active. Email sent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Gray Posted March 24 Author Share Posted March 24 9 hours ago, John Rickett 102 said: I've written a letter to AGC Sales asking for the rectification plan. In the first instance, I'd suggest each owner does the same. The contact address is on the Laser Engines website which is still active. I've already sent an email through their website but don't hold out a lot of hope for a reply. If not then it will be a recorded delivery letter to Geoff. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Rickett 102 Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 I think that's the way Ron, an old fashioned letter is more likely to get attention than an email - whether there's a reply is another matter! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Dell Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 I was sad to see that Jon has now left and Laser is shutting its doors, I too have an i200 reverse and in my pm with Jon was the first I heard of the modification on the board, sadly I have not had a chance to run mine and the model that was quickly available still needs covering due to a spate of ill health, thankfully improving, I am guessing no one has had a reply as yet so I will go straight to a letter to try and glean more info, do we know what the part is called that we are waiting for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Walby Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 14 minutes ago, Nigel Dell said: I was sad to see that Jon has now left and Laser is shutting its doors, I too have an i200 reverse and in my pm with Jon was the first I heard of the modification on the board, sadly I have not had a chance to run mine and the model that was quickly available still needs covering due to a spate of ill health, thankfully improving, I am guessing no one has had a reply as yet so I will go straight to a letter to try and glean more info, do we know what the part is called that we are waiting for? I had inlines on order from mid last year and in the end Jon offered me me single 155's so I went for them. As I understand the issue is of design vs manufacturing (all things are compromises) and some engines suffer with the issue and some don't. Its not so much a part that can be swapped, but more a fundamental design and manufacturing decision. The redesign would involve a number of significant component changes, but as I said not all engines are affected. I guess you need to run it to see which side of the fence yours sits, if there is an issue then involve the Laser warranty sooner rather than later. Perhaps that is why they were sold as development engines, so that people ran them and then issues would come up and be resolved, a bit like the petrol engines some sold and very few ever run and little feedback to Jon so very difficult to know if its an issue or not. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Dell Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 Quite, Jon said he will need it back to effect the mod, when he was leaving is exceptional service which he gave to us all. Had I not been ill I would have known by now 😳 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Gray Posted March 26 Author Share Posted March 26 2 hours ago, Chris Walby said: so very difficult to know if its an issue or not. Not so Chris. Jon had enough feedback on the G30 to know what needed to be changed ditto the inline 200's but on the latter he forecast the problem from the outset when his design was overruled for being too complex (read costly). Even this year they were still arguing with Jon about his solution to the problem but I was told that they (Geoff and Chris) begrudgingly gave in and that the parts would be made and that all 200 inlines would be recalled to have the modification implemented. The problem is that if Geoff is refusing to answer emails sent to him about this I would guess that he will respond the same way to letters sent to him, even trying to go and see him is difficult as you never know when he is going to be in. It may be that the only recourse is legal action but it's far too early to make that call yet, maybe after a few weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon H Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 I would like to draw a line under this inline business and close this thread down as i am no longer at the company and so it has well and truly run it course. The backstory of the problem is more or less irrelevant too and the only relevant information is what will be done about it. First, the info@laserengines email is now dead. It is not being monitored and you will not receive replies. Equally, the laser phone number is also dead for the same reason. The inline engines need one component replaced. It has been designed, manufactured, but not finished. Once available those with engines will be contacted using the list i kept of who had them, and i will find some time to sort it out. It will be done in my own time when i can, fitted in around a new job, new nephew, house move, car needing work etc. The upgrade will not be charged and you are free to take it, or not. Just note that there is likely to be only one chance to take it so if you decline then have an issue in a few years the opportunity will have been missed. Hope that clears it up. Im off to see if i can loose my powerpoint headache. Mods, if you can knock this on the head now that would be great as we are done here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Gray Posted March 26 Author Share Posted March 26 Thanks for jumping in Jon with the update but you can appreciate the concerns that we Laser owners have now that you are no longer at the helm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon H Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 1 hour ago, Ron Gray said: you are no longer at the helm. I never was. I can appreciate your concerns, and i share them, but i was just an employee, and i have left the company. The harsh truth is that its not my problem any more and i am within my rights to not give two hoots about it. However, i feel it is rather bad form to just abandon those who tried to support what i was doing with the inline's and that is why i have agreed to do the work once the parts are done as i do not want to leave people stuck if i can avoid it. The reason why i am asking to call a halt to the conversation here is that in the past it would have been an avenue to communicate with the company through me. That link is now broken as it is no longer my job to chase parts and have long draw out customer service type conversations on forums, yet here i am at 9pm on a Tuesday evening. In any case, posting here will not yield any result beyond making me feel bad and dragging me back into a job i no longer have. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Gray Posted March 26 Author Share Posted March 26 13 minutes ago, Jon - Laser Engines said: The harsh truth is that its not my problem any more and i am within my rights to not give two hoots about it. I totally agree and I don't think anyone on this forum / thread is expecting you to! Whilst you instigated this thread and are its author, it has become the place where we are having a conversation about the state of play. By all means get the mods to close this thread and we will start a new one to continue this dialogue which won't drag you in! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Gray Posted March 26 Author Share Posted March 26 I've started a new thread so that Jon Harper won't automatically get drawn in. I suggest any comments regarding order fulfilment / warranty work / recalls etc are put here. It's also the best place to have a right good moan about the situation! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Gray Posted March 26 Author Share Posted March 26 So following what Jon said in the 'announcement' thread: The inline engines need one component replaced. It has been designed, manufactured, but not finished. Once available those with engines will be contacted using the list i kept of who had them, and i will find some time to sort it out. It will be done in my own time when i can, fitted in around a new job, new nephew, house move, car needing work etc. The upgrade will not be charged and you are free to take it, or not. Just note that there is likely to be only one chance to take it so if you decline then have an issue in a few years the opportunity will have been missed. It's good to know that the parts have at least been made but somewhat unfair on having to rely on an ex employee to do the work. From a personal point of view I think that I would like to fit the part myself (Jon did suggest that to me a while back) at least that way it may get done a bit quicker. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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