First flight with instructor idea

[Neddy]

I just had my first flights with an instructor at my local flying club. The wind was blowing a gale one minute and calm the next. Even the instructor said it was not ideal conditions.  We were on buddy system and it seemed to me the instructor did most of the flying. I have spent a lot of time flying the same model plane on the simulator and I thought I was doing ok on that. But in real life I had trouble turning the plane into the wind it seemed to just about stall. I was using a slight amount of elevator and aleron to turn  but I think I should be using rudder and aleron instead in this situation. I feel a bit demoralised at present, I guess I am being too hard on myself.  Judging distance at when to turn was difficult with the cross wind and tail wind I needed a much bigger area than what was available and flying a straight line was difficult.  On the simulator you had engine noise and you could hear when motor is revving. But this plane flew silently I found I was too heavy on the throttle I know it's all a learning curve   I guess this experience has fattened my self confidence to a degree but I will battle on. Oh boy seeya Ned

[Peter Jenkins]

Hi Neddy

 

Yes, it's very different when you are flying in the real world. For a start, you will find that your IQ drops to nearly zero as even what were simple tasks become much more difficult.  The adrenaline is pumping which it never does on a simulator.

 

As regards turning, unless you have a poorly set up aircraft, most of today's crop don't need anything other than aileron to bank and elevator to turn as that's what creates the extra lift force needed to turn the aeroplane.  Using the rudder in the direction of turn will push the nose down and yaw the aircraft into the turn.  Hence the phrase bank and yank.   Oh yes, once you have reached the right angle of bank then centralise the ailerons.  You should leave the throttle at it's setting that your instructor set for straight and level flight.  If the aircraft is climbing ease off the back stick pressure and wait for the aircraft to react.  That's something else that takes a bit of time to get used to.  Aircraft always feel a bit behind where you want them to be.  There is a slight delay but you quickly get used to this.

 

Keep your spirits up and you've just found that flying in windy conditions is possible but hard work.  Don't let wind put you off otherwise you'll be waiting for ever in this country.

 

Good luck.

 

Peter

[toto]

Hi Ned,

 

Take it from one who knows ..... you are doing fine. I am new to this game as well and feel your pain. It is a path we all tread. 

 

All these battles against wind and any other events that are thrown at you are all normal and you will overcome them bit by bit. It's normal to feel demoralised but all you need is one good days flying with a little progression and I guarantee you that it will be enough to pick you up and spur you on.

 

Eventually .... after a few knocks .... you will pass a point where you are able to pick yourself up more easily and carry on ...... don't get too disheartened.

 

Keep your chin up and try and enjoy the little successes ...... bigger ones are on their way.

 

Enjoy

 

Toto

[Peter Jenkins]

1 hour ago, Neddy said:

I just had my first flights with an instructor at my local flying club. The wind was blowing a gale one minute and calm the next. Even the instructor said it was not ideal conditions.  We were on buddy system and it seemed to me the instructor did most of the flying. I have spent a lot of time flying the same model plane on the simulator and I thought I was doing ok on that. But in real life I had trouble turning the plane into the wind it seemed to just about stall. I was using a slight amount of elevator and aleron to turn  but I think I should be using rudder and aleron instead in this situation. I feel a bit demoralised at present, I guess I am being too hard on myself.  Judging distance at when to turn was difficult with the cross wind and tail wind I needed a much bigger area than what was available and flying a straight line was difficult.  On the simulator you had engine noise and you could hear when motor is revving. But this plane flew silently I found I was too heavy on the throttle I know it's all a learning curve   I guess this experience has fattened my self confidence to a degree but I will battle on. Oh boy seeya Ned

Hi Neddy

 

Have you read the BMFA book called a Flying Start?  If not, it's worth downloading from here..  Turning comes in Module 8 of this book that is also a suitable training manual provided both student and instructor are using it.  Hope you find the book useful if you have not already started using it.

 

Peter

[David Davis 2]

Keep going Neddy, one day everything will fall into place. It's only a matter of experience and the wind didn't help.

[Learner]

You'll improve every time, You've gone the right route of club instruction and sim practice. 

There's so many appear on here, ask for advice then ignore the club part, because they want to go it alone and think it can't be that hard, never to be heard of again. Perhaps they succeeded, but more likely crashed a lot and gave up.

 

[David Davis 2]

There are now no beginners at my club but the last two, who must have had their first flights four years ago both said, "It's not as easy as it looks is it!"  And that was when there was no wind with a very stable model.

 

It's just like riding a bike. Once you've learned you never forget.

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

One thing that I’ve noticed when teaching is that as a pupil increases in competence, there’s a tendency for them to start getting downhearted about “lack of progress”.  Often, this is simply because they are more aware of their errors and consequently more self critical. 
 

As you progress, listen to feedback from your instructor - they will see progress that you’re not aware of. 
 

Do you have wind and turbulence effects turned on in your simulator - if not, turn them on…some experience of “silly” conditions as well as realistic ones probably won’t hurt!
 

If model flying was as easy as it seems on a simulator, it would remove much of the challenge and ongoing enjoyment - the constant presence of gravity and the proximity of the edge of the air give a continuing challenge to even the most experienced pilot. 

[Simon Chaddock]

Neddy

"I had trouble turning the plane into the wind it seemed to just about stall"

Are you sure? Think about what is happening and remember you are standing still on the ground.

When the plane is flying with the wind behind it will appear to be travelling faster over the ground than normal. The plane's flying speed plus the wind speed.

When the plane is turned into the wind it will appear to slow down as seen from the ground. The plane's flying speed minus the wind speed. However the actual speed of the plane through the air is unchanged.

Indeed if the wind speed is close to the plane's flying speed it will appear to almost stop in the air as it turns in the wind but as far as the plane is concerned it is still flying normally.

Good that you noticed that the plane was slowing down and in still conditions that would serious but in a wind the plane speed when viewed from the ground varies depending on its path relative to the direction of the wind.

Learning to fly in even a mild wind is best avoided until you have achieved the confidence that you are using the controls appropriately. Then only gradually pick days with stronger wind speeds to get used to the plane's apparent speed variations. 

Of course the effect of wind and turbulence when flying close to the ground creates a whole new set of potential problems but that is all part of the process of learning to fly and when to stay on the ground.

[Cuban8]

Learning the basics of flying an R/C model aeroplane is hard enough in ideal conditions, but having to cope with variable windy conditions at the start of your training is really putting pressure on you and I'm not surprised that you are feeling a bit demoralised. If you are still at the stage of getting on top of good, safe model control in nice weather, then flying in very gusty conditions at this time will actually teach you next to nothing at this stage and might even put you off altogether - the model will be flying you rather than vice versa and a damaged model can be the result even on a buddy lead.

Every beginner is different and instructors should IMHO, tailor the lessons to suit the individual - that includes only giving instruction in next to ideal conditions if the pupil is clearly very nervous and not enjoying the experience of the model getting blown about gusty conditions.

Have a word with your instructor and try to sort something out.

[Neddy]

Thank you for all replies to my post the training plane is an Apprentice 1.5 mts it did have a stabiliser fitted but it was turned off. I have been using this plane on my Phoenix 5.5 simulator as well and have now added the wind affect to try help familiarise with flying in it. I will try to down load the BMFA book mentioned thanks again.

[Andy Gates]

Neddy as you have noticed flying on a simulator is nothing like the real world.

Simulators have their place and uses, it helps you work out what the sticks do and it also speeds up the disorientation issue when the plane is flying towards you.

It also allows a little practice when the weather is un-flyable.

 

That is about as far as I would use your simulator.

At the field is totally different. Don't get disheartened. Your instructor will have your best interests at heart. Take your time and enjoy learning the lessons. Sometimes what you think is a small insignificant step is really a quantum leap.

 

We had a young visitor over the weekend, a 20 something year old who saw what we were doing and thought it was easy. 3 flights later he was mentally worn out from having to concentrate so hard for so long.

[GrumpyGnome]

6 hours ago, Neddy said:

Thank you for all replies to my post the training plane is an Apprentice 1.5 mts it did have a stabiliser fitted but it was turned off. I have been using this plane on my Phoenix 5.5 simulator as well and have now added the wind affect to try help familiarise with flying in it. I will try to down load the BMFA book mentioned thanks again.

Is that an 'official' Phoenix model?  Some of the used-created models are as unrealistic to fly as you can get ......... 

[Neddy]

I went out again with another flight instructor the instructor kept taking over without telling me I didn't know when I was flying or him. Plus there were three other planes up at the same time. I did get stressed out. The instructor told me don't get so tensed up it's only a bit of plastic you are flying not a $1000000 jet. I would have done a much better job by myself. The dongles on the instructors transmitter feel too loose and free moving with no feel to them compared to the one I use on the simulator at home. Oh well I think I will take my own plane and make use of the stabiliser and have some time by myself!

[Peter Jenkins]

Hi Neddy

 

That doesn't sound too good.  I take it by dongles you are referring to the sticks on the Tx.  You should aim to have the stick tension as high as you can get them (this is adjustable on almost all Txs but may need the back taken off to access the adjusting screws - the manual will tell you where they are for your Tx).   The reason for high spring tension is so that you can feel the control inputs you are making even when you are tense.  Having very low spring tension fails to do this and just doesn't help with flying.

 

Did your instructor brief you before the flight on what he was going to teach you?  If not, then I suggest that you ask them, or any other instructor you have, to give you a 10-15 min brief before you take off to cover what you are are going to do, why you are doing it, what can go wrong and how to put it right.  

 

Flying by yourself when you are learning can be dangerous both for you and anyone else who is in the vicinity.  Having a clear idea of what you want to do goes a long way to avoiding an accident.  So, make sure you brief yourself on what you want to achieve before you get airborne and have a contingency plan for what to do if things don't work out as expected.  Fail to plan = plan to fail.

 

Good luck and let us know how you get on.

 

Peter

[toto]

Maybe not such a good idea. 

 

Where exactly are you intending to fly it .... by yourself. Are you prepared to lose it ?

 

Your instructor should not be so blasé about your bit of plastic. I wouldn't be happy with that attitude either. Maybe time you looked for another instructor. With regards to flying when others are flying , my instructors past and present always give me the choice. I tend to wait for a clear flight window although I have flown with other more experienced flyers in the air as well. They tend to stay out of your way. 

 

Don't let this experience get you down or push you into making rash decisions. A mangled model may just be enough to put you off .... unless you have deep pockets.

 

Anytime my instructor is taking control, he always tells me ..... or if the reason for taking back control is not of a critical nature ...... he will even ask me. If what you are saying is accurate ..... his attitude sucks and you'd be better off with someone else. .... don't be tempted to go it alone...... hit the reset button and try again.

 

Best of luck

 

Toto