Is your Club

[Romeo Whisky]

I might be stirring up a hornet's nest here, but that is not my intention.  It is evident from my own experience and knowledge that there are far more electric fliers who are not members of a club than there are i/c fliers.  (Obviously it is harder for i/c fliers to fly anywhere other than at a club).

 

But it also makes me wonder how "electric friendly" clubs are where most of the members fly i/c?  I know clubs which are very friendly and welcoming, but who's flying strip and rules are simply not conducive to electric flying.

 

I have seen club fields where the landing strip is really too short for the long glide-paths of lightweight electrics, or where the grass is too long for ROGs with small foam wheels.   Also their very quietness is a problem for electric fliers when there are noisy i/c engines buzzing around, or revving up in the pits because you cannot hear if your motor has stopped.  So do clubs have electric-only slots during a session?

 

One of the benefits of electric flying is that it is easy to snatch a few quick flights at any time of any day, and several on this forum have commented that they simply don't have this kind of accessibility to their local club field.

 

With electric now a major part of our hobby, perhaps it is time for clubs committees to reassess their rules, facilities and attitudes to electric fliers, anbd ensure that the interests of what might be a minority of electric fliers is properly represented in club decision-making processes.

 

The cameraderie of a club environment is very valuable, but if the club environment is off-putting to electric fliers, many will feel they have no option but to fly alone or with one or two others, and I know many (like me) who do just that.

[Tom Foreman]

Our club (Lancaster & Morecambe) tolerate electric flying, but I wouldn't say they were too keen on it. About 3 or 4 of us fly electric exclusively, but the majority are IC with maybe a couple dabbling with both. I do get slots to myself, but this is just because the nature of IC flying dictates that after they have managed to achieve a flight they seem to need a bit of a rest. I just fly constantly, swapping batteries in between landings until its time to go home. My only achievement is if I manage to flatten the field battery!

 

I do enjoy going to special electric flight events at other clubs, Blackpool and Greenacres are electric friendly and of course the BMFA Electric branch who have events around the country (went to Middle Wallop last year). I guess it would be nice to have clubs with mains electricity or a generator for re-charging like they have in the States, but lumping a 50lb field battery keeps me fit!

 

Tom

Edited By Tom Foreman on 03/03/2010 10:01:26

[Richard Wood]

My club is very tolerant of electric models & e-flyers are free to fly as they

wish within the club rules.

There are strict rules for ic flyers running up engines in specific areas,

which raises an issue for electric flyers - an electric motor is just as dangerous

as ic but doesn't seem to have the same running restrictions, unless I'm

out of date with the club rules. I must check them!

I tend to wait for a quiet spot to fly as I prefer to be able to hear the buzz of the motor.

 

Richard

 

 

[Bruce Richards]

At my club electric and i/c fliers have an equal standing and all have to abide by the same rules. The rules are derived from the BMFA recommendations. Electric powered flight has defiantly been a growing discipline in our club and I was the first person to pass the BMFA 'B' test with an electric powered model in 2008.

 

Our club chairman is a patten flyer who competes in all the national competitions and he has recently converted to an electic powere 2m pattern ship. May members also fly indoors and of couse this is all electric power.

 

So in summary there is no bias either way athough the club had been around for years and I would say there was currently more i/c than electric, the electric side is growing fast. As for new members we welcome everyone who wants to learn to fly RC models.

[Ultymate]

I don't see that there's an issue at all here, in fact i wouldn't want to be part of a club where this was an issue. I think possibly more people fly outside the realms of a club with elecctric because it's easy to fly electric in a park or on a playing field without arousing too much attention. You go down the local park and crank up an IC model and kids will come out of every nook and cranny as if attracted by the Pied Piper of Hamlin

[Clive Matthews]

I agree with Ultymate. No issue, electric flight and IC flight have equal status if not usage at Hexham club. But, IC is only flown at the club (or other similarly suitable place) whereas electric flight is often enjoyed at other places such as sports fields.

 

I am certain that there are many electric fliers out there who don't join a club because they don't need to. They may also feel uncomfortable with the 'seriousness' of a club. By this I mean that whilst welcoming, we might also be putting up other perhaps unnecessary barriers to new people joining.  

 

Whenever we have a discussion on this subject, it tends to get heated. I appreciate that rules and safety have an important role in the running of a club. But lets consider that John Doe has bought his electric model and can freely fly it at the local public park without hindrance.  Without doubt, he would be safer and well advised to seek instruction and fly at his local club. What's stopping him and the many others? Could it be attitudes such as no A no solo? My personal feeling is that I would rather he flew without an A at the safe club environment than at the local public park. At the club he will receive guidance and tuition. I believe that we should advise rather than rule. We are not policemen.

[Ultymate]

Clive I would always advise anyone to fly under the umbrella of a club, however I would not allow them concessions on club rules ie if the club say no solo without an "A" test then that should apply equally with electric as IC. It is fine for them to think they can fly unhindered and more than likely un-insured down at the local park until they injure a child and are facing life ruining litigation, they then don't need to come looking for my shoulder to cry on.

[Garry Pollard]

My clu has no issue which ever way you fly, ie electric or I.C. everbody is goverened by the rules regardless. One or two extra rules have been brought in to safeguard the electric flyers, but apart from I.C. being noisier than electric where is the problem, my club certainly hasnt found one

Garry

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

Same in my club. While electric is definately a minority it has at least equal rights and all the same club rules apply. They do in fact have a slight advantage as there are two weekdays when we are allowed to fly electric only - this was done as a noise concession to the neighbours. Also more or else everyone does indoor in the winter - as well as us brave souls who face the patch in the cold - and that is of course 100% electric.

 

TBH its not an issue that's often discussed - those who wish to commit electricery are free to do so - unmolested by fellow members - afterall they are consenting adults

 

BEB

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

There's a definite swing towards electric at my club but other than a bit of light hearted banter, no prejudice at all - in fact we've recently been working on clarifying that flying rules generally apply equally to all models.

 

We have hard liners in either discipline and many members with a foot in each camp. We're not totally tolerant - our site isn't really suitable for helis to co-exist with the mainstream fixed wing fliers but that doesn't mean we won't allow considerate operation of the blighters at suitable times!

 

It's a shame if some clubs are taking a blinkered viewpoint towards new technology.  I'm a died in the wool oily man at heart but I freely admit I wouldn't have done a fraction of the flying i've done this winter if it wasn't for electric models.

[Romeo Whisky]

I'm pleased to read the responses so far, and maybe this will run a bit yet, but I'm a little concerned about the word "tolerate" which appears in some posts above.  It gives the impression that some club members regard electric fliers as some sort of lower caste within the modelling fraternity.  (Similarly  tf miffs me when I see ARTFs disparaged and the term "foamy" used disingenuously even in magazine articles). 

 

And some seem to assume that electric fliers who fly outside clubs are not properly-insured BMFA members.  I know and continually meet many electric fliers who fly other than at a club site and all are fully insured BMFA members without exception.

 

It is not enough for i/c fliers and clubs to feel they are friendly towards electric fliers. 

What really matters is whether electric fliers themselves regard their local club as "electric friendly".   I'd like to hear from more of them on this thread.

[Clive Matthews]

Posted by Ultymate on 03/03/2010 11:02:53:
Clive I would always advise anyone to fly under the umbrella of a club, however I would not allow them concessions on club rules ie if the club say no solo without an "A" test then that should apply equally with electric as IC. It is fine for them to think they can fly unhindered and more than likely un-insured down at the local park until they injure a child and are facing life ruining litigation, they then don't need to come looking for my shoulder to cry on.

My attitude is different. My concern is not with proving the 'likely uninsured' to be in the wrong but with the injured child in your case! We should be concerned with preventing accidents and protecting the reputation of our hobby. In any case they may well be BMFA country members.

I also advise anyone to fly under the umbrella of a club and am not suggesting any concessions. I am challenging the accepted wisdom that members 'must have an A'. I'm suggesting that this could be replaced with 'are advised to have an A'. After all, how can this be realistically policed. Legally, I am advised that a club would be in a more protected position if they advised rather than insisted and then failed to ensure. There are many reasons why fliers may not have achieved an A other than incompetence.

 

Many people enter this hobby as park fliers. They may not initially take this hobby as seriously as we do. Neither might they recognise possible hazards. By welcoming them with guidance and advice rather than rules and hard opinions may be more productive in the long run. Above all, we should offer them a safe place to fly without risk of injuring a member of the public.

 

Like you, I believe that there is no difference in ability required to fly electric or ic. It's just than electric is quieter and can be smaller.  

[David Ashby - Moderator]

I fly with 2 clubs. Of those that fly regularly, leccy flyers equal the i.c. flyers in number. Toleration simply isn't an issue, we're all flyers and many fly both of course.There was a time when electric models tended to be smaller with limited endurance and mixing it with i.c. seemed tricky - in those days having an i.c. model or two in the circuit meant you couldn't hear your electric model (not that there's much to hear) but now days the two can mix together happily, the leecy flyer now flying a bigger model with pretty comparable endurance.    

 

Increasingly I see many who you would typecast as solid i.c. flyers now starting to take an interest in electric flight.

[Tim Mackey]

As one of the earliest adopters of electric flight at our club a few years back, I guess its true to say that a few of the old barnstormer types were a little -how shall we say.....dubious

However I think a few things have helped to prevent any "split" in the club between IC or leccy, and those include......

1) I never tried to "sell the idea" to anyone unless asked ( which I frequently was / am )

2) I certainly never "put down" IC  _ I believe there is room for both without question

3) Other die hards seeing what a good electric setup can do were impressed

4) The un-escapable barrage of the electric flight scene across the hobby

 

I can honestly say I never heard a single disparaging remark ( other than in jest ) about any of my electric models, and its true to say that almost every member now owns at least one or more electric models. We do have certain times of the day ( early morning and evenings at weekends ) when we only allow quiet electric models due to a recent complaint about noise - this has probably also helped encourage some people to actually get an electric model. There is no restriction on mixing of electric with IC flight...but as mentioned earlier, it does get a bit hard to hear your quiet model, when a noisy screaming IC model is beating up the strip.

As somone who relies on a timer to decide flight duration it doesnt particlarly bother me, and I am happy to sometimes wait until a particular model  ( or pilot ) has landed before I take a certain model up.

Edited By Timbo - Administrator on 03/03/2010 16:24:46

[Mike Rolls]

Six years ago, when I joined one of the clubs to which I belong, I was the only electric flyer. Now virtually all the members either fly elecric or both.

The other two clubs -one I have only been a member of for a couple of years but it is by no maens unusual to find more electric being flown than i/c 

Mike

[nasa_steve]

i belong to 2 clubs and we tolerate IC flyers they are a menace with their oil spuing smelly power systems its outrageous what us clean living MODERN electric flyers have to put up with and the abuse the smellies give us is outragous

   

 

i cannot believe the pretencious biggotry some of these so called IC modelers spout " Tolerate" indeed do they think they are superior in some way to electric flyers LOL. i will never understand the issue these guys have i fly both electric and petrol and i have in the past flown IC glow but it amazes me how many people say "well electric isn't real modelling is it" what makes these people think it is any different than ic power except ic makes more noise in some cases, cover's the model in crud and makes the car smell funky after its dripped from the exhaust into the boot. and like electric does'nt sound anything like the real thing!!

nasa

 

Edited By nasa_steve on 03/03/2010 17:12:58

[Tim Hooper]

Posted by Romeo Whisky on 03/03/2010 14:30:57:

It gives the impression that some club members regard electric fliers as some sort of lower caste within the modelling fraternity. 

 

 

 It's the other way around, surely?

 

tim

[Chris Channon]

Hi all,

I am an engine person, ie i like my two strokes and four strokes, i love the setting up, making them as reliable as poss but i also like the electric side of the hobby. It is so easy just to put in a charged battery and fly, no setting up, no hint of an engine cut ( though if a glow engine ( why have we started calling them Nitro power ? ) is set up correctly then this is in itself rare ) and just the fact that one can turn up and fly, superb !!!

 

BUT, there had to be a but, i do get really fed up with electric flyers doing nothing but hovering over the strip, end over end looping, and when it is time to " land " it gets plonked down without even so much as a "Landing" call, so if i am flying an IC model suddenly there are people on the strip, not good.

 

I think in our club ( Gosport Model Flyers ) there must be a good 50-50 split between electric and IC, i just wish that the same approach ( forgive the pun ) to landing and take off was applied to IC and electric the same.

 

Regards as always

Chris C

[Garry Pollard]

Chris

I feel a word in the ear of the safty officer would not go amiss

Garry

[nasa_steve]

Posted by Chris Channon on 03/03/2010 17:43:41:

Hi all,

I am an engine person, ie i like my two strokes and four strokes, i love the setting up, making them as reliable as poss but i also like the electric side of the hobby. It is so easy just to put in a charged battery and fly, no setting up, no hint of an engine cut ( though if a glow engine ( why have we started calling them Nitro power ? ) is set up correctly then this is in itself rare ) and just the fact that one can turn up and fly, superb !!!

 

BUT, there had to be a but, i do get really fed up with electric flyers doing nothing but hovering over the strip, end over end looping, and when it is time to " land " it gets plonked down without even so much as a "Landing" call, so if i am flying an IC model suddenly there are people on the strip, not good.

 

I think in our club ( Gosport Model Flyers ) there must be a good 50-50 split between electric and IC, i just wish that the same approach ( forgive the pun ) to landing and take off was applied to IC and electric the same.

 

Regards as always

Chris C

 WE have'nt its the rc car boys i thought and even then half of them call it petrol LOL how little some know eh!!

        last time i was at a show it was the IC boys doing what you described so i suppose it takes all sorts

[Tim Mackey]

Yes indeed....its the IC ones that do that mostly at our field too !

[Brian Cooper]

No problems at the Wellingborough Club.  We all co-exist happily whether we are flying I.C. or elecrtric.

Also, the same rules, for flying and general safety, apply to all flyers whatever they're flying.

 

B.C.

[Phil Claridge]

my club mixes both quite happily our every day flying site is electric only on the weekends, most club members now fly both types

[Craig Spence]

My club is quite good, the electric flyers have one hour to themselves in the morning and then they have to mix with the IC for the rest of the day. I think this is quite good as really there getting in one hour more than everyone else, plus they can fly later hours as well.

 

As for the patch, our grass is short but its no bowling green, there are little potholes which catch out the IC and lecci flyers alike, these are mostly from metal detector enthusiasts at night lol!.

 

I think putting that much maintainence into the patch is money wasted really, all the flyers are happy and as was said before electric planes can be flown almost anywhere these days with a bit of common sense of course.

 

Im IC but the mix at our club would have to be id say about 60 IC to 40 electric, thats most days but most IC flyers have electric as well.

[Dusty]

IC guys always complain about EDF, cant fly EDF on sundays but they can fly noiser to the ear models where you cant even hear a EDF model fly. I agree some edf models scream, but with good setups etc etc some are rather quiet compared to a "stinky"

 

You never can win so hence I have a hanger with models that only fly at certain times to keep the peace and not have the stress of complaints!