Any advice for a Myford ML7 newbie?

[Danny Fenton]

I have just won a Myford ML7 on Ebay. I hope to turn spinner and wheel hub plugs for vac forming. I dream of doing my own retracts one day but I think I realise that will probably never happen......

 

Any engineers in our midst with any gems of wisdom to pass on to a beginner? I do know a little of the basics but need all the help and advice I can get

 

Cheers

Danny

 

 

[Ernie]

Hi Danny, First bit of advice is to get it set up on a really solid, and perfectly level base.

There is an excellent book called 'model engineering' I cant find it right now  to give you more.

 

ernie

[Danny Fenton]

Hi Ernie thanks for that. It is already on a genuine Myford Base. I wasn't aware it has to be accurately level that's news thanks. I did buy a few books online this morning.

 

One of which that was recomended was this one The Amateur's Lathe

Hopefully this wont turn into a money pit

Cheers

Danny

[Steve W-O]

Not an engineer, but used one at work for many years. I had used much bigger lathes in another department, but the ML7 was a pleasure to use. Used it to make many odd things, like a brass fuel cap for a Seagull outboard (my own, not works ) to clutch housings for offset printing machines and all kinds of other parts for printing machines, motor bikes and models.

 

Always made sure the slides were clean, smooth and properly adjusted. And always used the four jaw chuck.

try to make your own tools out of decent tool steel, the kits of tools I have tried of ebay are a total waste of time.

 

Once you have had a lathe at home, you will never be able to live without one!

[Danny Fenton]

Thanks Steve, nice to hear that I haven't made a bad choice. I hoped I couldn't go to far wrong with a Myford, however there is still the cahnce it is totally worn out. Where would you source good alloy and steel in the small amounts we need? Also where would you get tool steel? Any suggestions?

 

Cheers

Danny

[Steve W-O]

It's a good choice, so long as it is not badly worn as you say.

 

I usually buy small amounts on ebay, but search well, as some prices are silly. Many small engineering works will probably help you as well, make it clear you will pay, and not asking for it for nothing.

 

 

 

I also have a small stock of delrin, useful for bushes etc (even made new parts for the ironing board)

 

Tool steel can't help with, I gave up and got someone to bring me some Somta tool steel and a lot of drill bits, but it won't be available here, sorry. Again, a local small engineers will tell you the respected brands, and who supplies them. It is not usually purchased in huge amounts, so it should not be to dear.

[Danny Fenton]

Thanks Steve, I have had a look at Chronos, I have used them for drill bits etc and notice they do Myford bits, tools etc. I may buy a few bits from them as a reference, then as I grind my own I will know what they should do.

 

First project will be a spinner plug for the Nijhuis 70" Spitfire, a mkI. Not sure what to turn it from but a hardwood would be ideal I would expect.

 

Thanks again for the advice.

 

Cheers

Danny

[kc]

Beware trying to turn wood on a metal turning lathe with hand tools. Easy to catch a hand on a protruding part of the chuck.  Woodturning lathes have smooth chucks and more clearance for tools. Also have higher speeds for wood.  Woodturning is a different craft maybe an art.  Visit a woodwork exhibition to see demos, and take a drawing of your spinner and you might persuade one of the demonstraters to turn it up for you!

 

The level base is really part of the setting up process to ensure the cast iron lathe is not distorted.  All necessary for really accurate metal turning.  Same for woodturning but not so critical.

A trip to the Model Engineer Exhibition will give you the chance to speak to the SMEE people who usually demonstrate lathework.  These mostly older gentlemen have a wealth of experience which they are happy to share with you.  They include people who write articles in M.E. mags

Also secondhand ML7 parts like 4 jaw chucks etc are sold on the stands.  

 

There is also the London Model Engineering Exhibition which is normally at Alexandra Palace in mid January, but the SMEE people do not normally have a stand.  Not much aircraft stuff at either of these shows but Model Engineering and boats now.

Edited By kc on 24/10/2010 17:36:17

[Danny Fenton]

Hi KC thanks for the warning, I will take heed and obviously be careful.

 

I have been to to the London ME exhibition a few times. The stuff those guys turn out is amazing, but not what I want to do. My scale modelling is my hobby, and really just want to be able to turn up some simple stuff. And maybe have a crack at my own retracts if I can sort the milling out. John Ranson and others regularly use a metal lathe to create various bits like spinner plugs for vac forming. I will ask John what tools he uses when shaping wood, I doubt its wood turning tools.

 

I have a 4 jaw chuck already I made sure the lathe I went for included one. The lathe also has a vertical slider attachment to give greater travel when milling so hopeful I will not need to spend on much other than stock metal and some tooling. I have a bench grinder on the way already. I threw out the grinder I have had for twenty years last summer thinking I would never need it again. There is a moral there somewhere

 

As for getting somebody else to do the stuff for me, that kind of defeats the object of the exercise

 

Cheers

Danny

 

 

 

[Tim Mackey]

I was also told some years back, that turning wood in a metalworking was bad because the wood shavings attract and hold moisture which in turn creates rust.

[kc]

 

Its Horses for Courses.  A ML7 is really for metal and woodturning lathes are for wood. The moisture does come out of wood but the biggest enemy is the abrasives used in woodturning would get into the leadscrew, the slides and destroy accuracy. You can just about do metal on a wood lathe and vice versa but its a severe compromise .   Try to master one or the other first. One is a set up thing the other is manipulating tools in your hand. Completely different skills.

  The sort of smooth curve parabola of a spinner  is not what a metal lathe ( except maybe CNC ) does while its easy for a woodturner.  You often twist the woodturning tools to follow the grain around and form the shape.  Its an art really.

Books

Myford Series 7 manual .  Ian Bradley  

Model Engineering a Foundation Course   Peter Wright

 

The Compact Lathe ( or any other  title by Stan Bray )

 

All above were Argus/ Nexus/ Model & Allied  so probably from MyHobbyStores now.

 

A Man & his Lathe  L.H Sparey   Tee Publishing

 

and finally the best ever book on M.E,  but rather on the more advanced stuff.  But a must have because its all about the ML7

The Model Engineers Workshop Manual  G H Thomas   Tee Publishing   ( organiser of the Alexandra Palace show  so these are avail for you to browse through there.

Edited By kc on 24/10/2010 18:11:53

Edited By kc on 24/10/2010 18:28:07

[Danny Fenton]

Just found a picture of John Ranson turning a Spitfire wheel hub made of liteply in his lathe. Looks like he using metal tools........

 

 

As you say Tim you have to make sure you clean up well, and if you are using a coolant/lube when working with metal that will stick the wood shavings. Cleanliness is nest to godliness I think when it comes to owning a lathe.

 

I figured that the lathe shoud break even on spinners and wheels in around 80 years

 

Cheers

Danny

[Danny Fenton]

Hi KC sorry I didn't see your post come through. I will keep a note of those books. I have three arriving on Tuesday, I will read through those and see if they give me enough of a start. There is a clubmate that makes his own radials, amongst other things. I spent an interesting hour chatting to him, during the summer. I will have to try and nurture that relationship  

 

Cheers

Danny

Edited By Danny Fenton on 24/10/2010 18:24:12

[kc]

Danny

see my later amendments about abrasives which was done after you read it and replied.

[Danny Fenton]

Hi KC thanks for the nudge, I hadn't seen your comments. I know there are some nasty abrasives properies in Teak, it reaks havoc with my woodworking tools. I wasn't aware that aother hardwoods had the same abrasive content thanks for that. Other hardwoods certainly don't blunt the tools like teak does thats for sure.

 

There are machining materials that are suitable for the lathe, I have some Chemiwood I got from Phil Clarke (Fighteraces) but its a little pricey to use for spinner blanks. Anybody know any others??

 

 

 

I have found the other picture of John ranson turning a spinner blank from Moranti wood. Still cannot see what tool he is using.

 

Cheers

Danny

Edited By Danny Fenton on 24/10/2010 19:03:42

[Steve W-O]

In the ideal world a different machine should be used. When I win the lotto, I will have a workshop big enough to hold everything, at the moment, i have half a garage, and the lathe and milling machine (both small) take up one wall.

 

I turn wood on mine, and i don't use hand held tools, just make the tools a different shape to metal cutting tools.  Really just a different material, brass, steel, aluminium, nylon, vesconite etc all require slightly different techniques, speeds etc.

 

The abrasives don't concern me, I use some on metal anyway, and clean up. The lathe will last longer than me in any event, so i may as well get full use out of it while I can, it will certainly rust 6' under

 

Meranti is not the easiest wood to turn, it can splinter easily, so sharp tools are a must. It is fairly "grainless" if that were possible. It is not structurally strong, though it is quite hard (compared with pine) 

 

Maybe better to stick with a locally available hardwood, and master working it, then you will be sure of having a consistent supply.

 

You do need a lube pump, can be something simple and home made, but it is worth the effort.

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

Regarding alternatives you can turn Paxolin and get quite a good surface finish. Superficially it looks like wood and could certainly by used as a former in vac forming etc. Not always easy to get in the sort of quantities home users want.

 

One thing to be very aware of though with stuff like this - or indeed possibly with wood if you turn it using metal turning tools - wear a good quality dust mask. Not just a moulded paper one - use one with a cartridge filter. Paxolin and the likes make some nasty dust like particles when machined.

 

BEB 

[kc]

I was not saying the wood is abrasive but that abrasive papers would be used to get a smooth shape.  A woodturner would use a gouge or a skew chisel to make that spinner shape and would lift the gouge handle while twisting it too ( or something like that ) to make that shape.  A tool fixed in a toolrest cannot move in that manner,  all that can be done is move in gradually and it will produce lots of tiny flats.  These flats will need abrasive to even out to a smooth surface.

Any close grained wood could be used, a woodturner could use fruitwood- apple, pear etc but it needs to be well seasoned.  A piece of beech -something from an old chair that has been indoors for decades is the sort of thing for this. Use something the least bit green & it  will split or distort in a days or even hours once the stresses are removed.  Same with metal on a minute scale of course.  Rough turning to shape and leaving the final shape to later might be an idea.

Clearly it can be done on any lathe - everything depends on the skill and ingenuity of the person. It may well be that a 'form ' tool was specially ground to the shape and used for this spinner. 

 

[Tim Mackey]

I once made a rough male plug from Isopon via a female mould, and turned it smooth on the lathe. I used a simple round nose metal working tool.

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

Danny, getting back to the oiginal topic, don't forget the safety aspect.  I've used my lathe and other machine tools on and off for decades and I'm totally immune to damaging myself because nasty things happen to other people...

 

...at least that was until this year.  I should have been warned when a slip of the hand during the summer ended up with me having 4 stitches in a gashed knuckle from hitting a tool mounted in the toolpost but being invulnerable I obviously didn't take heed enough and that's why I crushed a fingertip by running it between 2 (loosely meshed) gears a month ago due to a moment's stupidity. It's on the mend slowly but not an experience I'd want to repeat!

 

Just bear in mind that it's a powerful tool - as others have said, invaluable for modelling and a host of other uses but wll take no prisoners!

Edited By Martin Harris on 24/10/2010 20:44:23

[Danny Fenton]

Ouch Martin, yes a lesson to us all. I am always a little afraid of machine tools which is probably a safer way to be. But as you point out it can happen to all of us. The number of times you hear of chuck keys flying across rooms only goes to highlight what can happen. As with many of these older machines, ther are very few interlocks and safety devices fitted to any of these machines.

 

Glad its all on the mend now though matey

 

Cheers

Danny

[Keiran Arnold]

Hmmm I think I've very lucky to have a girlfriend who has both a Myford Super 7 and a wood Lathe in her workshop. Now for a winter project!!

[kc]

Don't get carried away Keiran, it might be cheaper to spend a thousand or so and get your own Super 7 and a woodturning lathe!  You really need someone to cook your meals while YOU spend hours on the Myford!

 

Whilst on the subject of safety,  I well remember  trying out a newly aquired reversing switch and then fitting on a big four jaw chuck for the first time.   As soon as I switched on in reverse the inertia caused the 4 jaw to unscrew itself and fall off onto the lathebed before I knew what was happening! 

[thomas oliver 1]

Danny, As a modeller and lathe user for over fifty years, I append some advise about lathe use:

  1.  Remember the golden rule is "Rigidity".  Do not allow too much overhang of workpiece or tool.  Always part off as close to the chuck as possible.

  2.  Cutting "rate" is dependent on diameter of work and rotational speed and is fixed for any given material. So small dia. work turned at high speed and larger dia. work at lower speed.

  3. The material also  comes into it.  Aluminium needs a high speed,  mild steel more or less medium, and cast iron low speed.

       So small dia. aluminium will need a very high speed.  Large dia. cast iron very low speed.

  4.  Stick with  HSS toolbits. They are much easier to regrind and to grind special form tools.  Tungsten carbide only needed for cast iron or tougher steels

  5. Do not be tempted to buy full sets of tools as you wll probably be getting some which will remain very redundant.  Most work can be done with knife, round nose, chamfering and parting tools.

  6.  So called quick change tooling is not as quick as is made out. A four way toolpost is much quicker to index, if you can cope with the four tools mentioned.

  7.  Turning procedure:-  Start with heavy roughing cuts and check regularly with mike. Get within 20 thou. of size. Then index in 5thou, taking off 10thou. Index 3 and take off another 6, leaving 4 thou. Then 2 cuts of 1thou  to take down to size. 

  8.  One of the big problems with old lathes is backlash in the cross-slide.  Fitting a digital readout gets rid of this problem as it shows only the actual movement in or out of the crosslide.

[thomas oliver 1]

Danny,  Further to my first reply,  Aluminium can be obtained as "Freecutting" alloy.  Brass also as CZ121,and mild steel as EN1A.  These make life a lot easier and produce a better  finish.  Start practising by making useful accessories such as a tailstock die-holder, a slitting saw arbor, boring bar holder, knurling tool shank, toolmakers clamps, morse taper centre drill holder.  Make these with a knurled collar  if possible to aid extraction.  My number one requirement is a good accurate 3-jaw chuck, which makes it easier to achieve accuracy all round.

    Wood turning can be done as shown in one posting with nice sharp tools on a metal lathe.  With a lot of practice you can even move both slides simultaneously to generate curves as in the spinner.  Do however as advised and use a vacuum extractor if possible and scrupulously clean down after using wood.  It does generate a lot of very fine dust as well as the normal cuttings so use a good mask as recommended.  Most British hardwoods and fruit tree woods turn nicely.  Beech is readily obtainable and oak from old chair  and table. There are two distinct methods of hand woodturning - scraping and cutting.  With scraping you hold the tool about level but this does not give good finish and relies on sandpaper to finish. The cutting method requires the tool handle to be tilted down. The bevel on the end of a skew chisel is allowed to rub, then the the tool slowly tilted back up until it begins to slice the wood and slowly moved along. There should only be one bevel sharpened on either side of the tool.  Do not hone the edges only.