A few safety thoughts while slowly recovering after nearly chopping off my thumb.

[Bob Moore]

I don't think anyone is talking about 'enforcing regimes', just trying to encourage safe practices.  Plus trying to avoid accidents, that surely can't be a bad thing?

Edited By Bob Moore on 13/03/2011 22:57:48

[Ross Clarkson]

Well said Bob.

I really hope your thumb makes a full recovery and the pain is easing.

I don't think, in fact i am sure, that we will ever stop these accidents happening but at least by documenting it like you have done and discussing it as we are, we can at least educate people that are not quite aware how bad these incidents can be.

 

That is surely the goal, to make people aware of what can happen, so that it might just reduce the amount of incidents in the future.

[Erfolg]

I cannot fail to notice that many accidents are happening at home, during a slip in concentration.

 

The severity of accidents will generally be greater the more powerful the motor/engine for any identical scenario.

 

Increasing club field safety systems does not address these aspects.

 

Incidents like this should not be allowed to encourage those singular individuals who wish to tell others how to behave and what to do. Safety in my opinion in a club should be communal responsibility with peer pressure being the principal means of imposition.

 

Yes I feel for Bob and there are lessons for most, if not all. Though risk is present in all aspects of life, we successfully manage most, by awareness and education combined with our imaginations.

 

[JayCee]

Rex Posted

 

<

Why walk to the strip with the battery connected ? Connect at the strip, check your controls, take off.>

 

Obviously you can't argue with that, we all know the only time a Leccy is totally safe is when the battery is disconnected.

 

Walking to the strip and then connecting the battery is fine in a purpose built electric model where battery access is designed for and easy.

 

However in conversion models this is not always the case, especially in models with tricycle undercarriage where the most obvious battery position , the old fuel tank position is not accessible from below because of push rods etc.

 

Jungling CG, access, is not always easy. You can hardly expect other flyer's to wait for the strip while your connecting batteries and then putting the wing back on!

 

JC

 

 

[Tim Mackey]

Jungling CG ?

 

I agree that its not always easy to arrange battery isolation - but its usually possible.

In particular tricky installs, some of us have managed to arrange an isolation switch using a Deans plug bridge or similar, to simply isolate one battery lead, perhaps hidden behind a cover flap or similar.

This is the setup I used on my Camel - the hatch was formed from some Lithoplate, and from a distance looked perfectly acceptable ( to my eyes anyway )

[JayCee]

Yes I had toyed with the bridged 'deans' idea.

 

May give it another look while I still have both thumbs

 

By the way best of luck on a speedy recovery Bob, noticed it was your left hand are you mode 2? are you right handed?

 

Just been looking at the utter devastation in Japan, puts everything into perspective

 

JC

[John Prescott]

Just a word of warning to you all...

I suffered similar injuries a while back from an electric prop, while connecting up the battery, and finding the radio programming all adrift, and on connecting the battery set the prop off at full tilt, made a grab to stop the plane shooting off and fingers suffered. So treat the leccies with similar respect. Hope you heal well

John

[Erfolg]

As many have suggested I to plug in the Lipo at the last minute.

 

At this time I am apprehensive, until I have got the model away. It is putting the hatch or otheracts that worries me. I consciously keep my hands clear of the prop. Even now the motor is relatively safe until the beeping stops, and the ESC has worked out the pole gaps etc.

 

 

What causes me greater concern, is when i land further from the flight line than is intended. As the model is on the ground some distance from the transmitter, also now sitting on the ground, I have this feeling anything could happen. So like a snake hunter I approach from the rear, as safely and quickly that is reasonably possible, I disconet the Lipo.

 

As observed by Eric, many accidents occur when distracted, or maybe a routine broken, that unthinking action when more relaxed than is good for us.

 

In circumstances such as these it is an imperative to ensure that the throttle is closed. I have seen to many models overheat, when this is not so, the propeller is attempting to rotate.

 

I am grateful to fly with a club where safety is taken as a "Given", incorporated into every day actions or advice. Is the throttle closed Erfolg? Or better close the throttle Erfolg, could burn out the motor. Better hold on a minute, some one is landing. No bureaucratic do this or that, but an" there could be a safety issue, if we are not careful". A way of thought, which encourages self regulation, to your own safety and those of others, and encourages helpful attitudes to all.

 

Safety needs to be embedded into our everyday life and not just flying. It is not about committees,or a path of safety documents would trail us through life. Better "Think safe, be safe".

[Erfolg]

John

 

I think you may have identified an other issue, that of equipment failure.

 

Non of my ESC will start the motor in partial throttle condition. On most of the ones I have they will only programme on power up at full throttle, partial throttle, I get beeps to warn me the throttle needs shutting etc.

 

I assume other peoples ESC are broadly similar?

 

I would suggest junking yours.

 

But how you can totally legislate for failed equipment, other than assuming that the motor could start due to equipment failure I do not know.

[Cyberfyn]

Lol. Planes are not too dangerous. Now mountainbiking......

 

Edited By Cyberfyn on 15/03/2011 15:58:50

[Bob Moore]

I finally got up the nerve to run up the Irvine 40 that bit me 7 weeks ago which was the cause of this thread. I was pretty apprehensive, almost scared in fact, as the memory of the damage to my thumb when I stuck it in the prop is still very fresh in my mind.

 

I tried to arrange the limited working area in such a way that there were fewer danger areas. Made a restraint to use on the slabs from two shelf brackets scewed to a piece of board with a couple of lugs added to stop the tail rising. Weighted with concrete brick it's not going anywhere. My glow remote wasn't a success, (no electric connection?) so I had to use the clothes peg clip direct on the cylinder head, but I secured it to wing mount bolts so that it was impossible to fall in the prop.

 

TX and starter box to my right, engine to the left. Started the model left hand restraining model reaching very high over the prop, and right hand for the starter. Can't see any easy alternative to restraining by hand.  And I gave up the work bench idea as you have to reach even higher over a model that way.

 

Once started I only moved one hand at a time. Making sure to move slowly and deliberately, I replaced starter to the ground, then carefully raised left hand high away from spinning prop. Gave the motor a blip or two to make sure it was running ok, and then moved to the rear before revving up and removing clip. Never standing in the arc and not long in front of the prop. 

 

I worked around the model like it was a dangerous beast, which they obviously can be at times if one is careless! I think that's the way I hope to be in future. It's either that, or give it up flying models with moderate size (IC or other) engines? I still feel very apprehensive about the whole thing really,  maybe I should stick to my leccy West Wings Orion and little leccy Depron Edge! 

 

Observations welcomed please. (Apart from buy a house with a bigger yard?)

 PS The engine was a bit reluctant to run properly, maybe oily residue in tank or engine, but eventually it seemed ok. Does a slight pick up in revs on lifting the nose mean it's a little rich? Seems logical.

 

Here's the restraint. I shortened the lugs after damaging the tail lifting the model carelessly.

 

 

Limited work space but prop facing to the side of where I stand to start model.

And I move around the right hand side of the flight box to go to the rear of the model.

 

Tail restraint and concrete block. I use a Y stake on grass.

 

Glow clip out of the way. An alternative would be a small hook and elastic band on the wire somewhere to pull it backwards if it came off?

This is how small the space is! The tarp is to keep oil of the slabs. As I've discovered it's very difficult to remove! I don't stand here to start it, but kneel by the steps at the right.

 

 

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[Erfolg]

Would a Workmate type bench with a cradle to hold the model be safer? Facsimile "Workmates" are now available from places such as B&Q for about £10, now that patent protection has expired. Onto the "Workmate" I would attach (firmly) a ply cradle.

 

As to your apprehension and care, as you so graphically know, it is warranted.

The one thing that I have come to recognise it is that which was not part of normal routine or planned for that catches us out every time. Planning does help in limiting the risks of normal working. I guess the catch words are"stay vigilant".

 

Wishing you the very best in the future.

 

[Olly P]

I have added something new to my electric test bench at home while preping stuff for the webbit build, a normally open push to close button switch, if anything sounds odd, or goes wrong I release the switch and the motor dies. Great when the phone rings, or any unexpected thing makes me jump...

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

Atta Boy Bob - back in the saddle - well done mate. Takes a bit of guts when the blighter has done that to you!

 

Still, it will be easier next time, and easier still the one after. Though I'm sure you'll never forget - which is perhaps not an entirely bad thing.

 

BEB

[John Muir]

Hi Bob,

 

I hope you don't mind me making a couple of observations. First off, I think your working space is incredibly restricted. From the picture it just doesn't look like you've got enough room to move about safely when the engine's running. Do you really have to run your engine at home? Couldn't you just wait til you get to the field?

Secondly I can see why your glow clip falls off. The bottom part should be further down the cylinder head to grip properly, but as you've discovered, the paint on the Irvine stops it making electrical contact. As it is in your photos, it will be very easy to dislodge. You'd probably be better off with one of the (more common these days) tubular clip on types. Some of these are available with a sort of twist action positive lock, I've seen a clubmate using one and it seems to stay on very well, although I've no idea where he got it. I use a plain one myself and find it stays on perfectly adequately most of the time. I do like what you've done with the lead. Very sensible that.

 

John.

[Phil Claridge]

i agree with john,bob have you thought what might happen if you trip over the step or flight box. it might not be your finger. it could be your face

[Bob Moore]

Hi all,

 

Thanks for the ideas and observations.

 

Re the glow clip, the Irivine is laquered so unfortuantely if you clip low down the head you get no contact. On my other IC engines I do clip low down the block and as you say it makes a firm grip then. I've now fitted another remote glow to thi model and this one will work. It a dummy glow type and is a long way back from the engine.

 

Re the bench idea, I do have a work mate and maybe I'll consider the idea of making a cradle to hold the model. I find it useful to run up a new engine at home sometimes, though I agree the field has more space.

 

Re the danger of falling into the prop, it almost happened once when I worked in a different way, and tried to step over, so I am well aware of avoiding that situation It's hard to see from the pic but where it sits it's barely at waist level. And I can absolutely assure you there's no way I can trip into the prop the way I have it set up now. First cos the model is facing left and secondly because I move to the right of the box. ie between the box and the bricks, then by the blue tarp to get to rear. If I trip it will be into the wall at the end! It is far from ideal though I must admit! And thanks for your thoughts.

Edited By Bob Moore on 16/03/2011 09:13:16

[Erfolg]

This thread has identified two important safety issues, that if in an industrial setting would require action, as the financial cost is low, with no reduction in operability. You can easily argue taking the appropriate action increases operability. The present situation would almost certainly have the HSE issuing an improvement notice..

 

The first and probably the easiest to implement, that is a remote location for attaching the temporary battery connection for any glo plug.

 

The second is to use only motors with remote from the propeller arc fuel adjustment. Given the number of Front Induction valves engines and the practicality of expecting people to dump them, could a after market device not be marketed to relocate the adjustment as some OS engines? I guess it would be a punt without assurance of sales and a return on investment.

 

What you can practically do about a spinning propeller is another issue, for bench testing a simple wire guard would suffice, but who would buy and use such a device without compulsion. I probably would not, I guess there are many more who would come up with many impediments as to the practicality and desirability of such a device.

Edited By Erfolg on 16/03/2011 11:10:39

[Phil 9]

 

spotted this on u tube. there are so many things wrong in this vid it is hard to watch.

 

the guy starts his engine then reaches over the prop to tune it and then take off the glow start. then the idiot lets his dog chase the model around

 

 

Edited By Tim Mackey - Administrator on 27/03/2011 08:43:09

[r6dan]

One day that dog will get a mouth full of prop then the owner will realize.....

[Tim Mackey]

Idiot.

[Phil 9]

maybe he will loose all his fingers before he hurts the dog.

 

Having seen this video I can appreciate what joining a club did for me. First you get shown the correct way of doing things and if you get laps someone will pick you up for it.

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

Where's the RSPCA when they're needed...

[Josip Vrandecic -Mes]

I thought only smart guys are flying RC........until now

[ericrw]

Bob, definately use a Work-mate. It's much easier and safer to attend to the model if you are standing, as opposed to kneeling in front of the model. Eric.