Wannabe builder saying hello

[IanH]

Hello folks, thought I'd post a "quick" intro as I'm hoping to be on these forums a fair bit in the future. Bear with me, as I've got what I hope are a few valid questions at the end...

 

I got my first taste of RC flying 6 months ago when I was bought a Parkzone Radian electric powered glider (info on it here if you're interested) for my 30th. Fortunately the weather was rotten at the time, which allowed me to read up on the hobby in general, and realise that perhaps a flight sim might be a good idea. I'd say the weather probably saved the plane from being destroyed on day 1 and would have definitely put a dampner on my birthday!

 

Finally took it out after about 15 hours on Phoenix flight sim (invaluable learning tool I reckon) and the 4 minutes I had it flying were brilliant, and certainly felt a lot longer, got it down safely too.

 

6 months later, with what I reckon must be 30 hours of "real" flying under my belt and plenty more in the sim, I feel like this is a hobby I'm getting more and more interested in and hope to continue it for years to come.

 

I know the next (or perhaps it should have been the first) step would be to join a club, and the only reason I haven't done so already is that I'm looking at relocating from South-East to North-West (job pending!) and don't want to start a club for just a few months, get used to it, its people and its "ways", then switch club and feel like everything's different to what I've been learning.

 

So... I figure, in the meantime, I want to get into the actual building side of it. With a young family and not too much spare time, I'm thinking by the time I've got round to actually finishing to build anything, we'll hopefully have moved and I'll be part of a club to help me fly 'em properly!

 

The First-Step plan in September's issue of RCME was what got me first thinking about getting into building, as up until then, all the previous plans I'd looked at seemed horribly complicated! Having done more research (lots of reading on these forums and ploughing my way through the RCME digital archives - an excellent source of information) I've currently settled on following a book. In particular "Aircraft Workshop: Learn to make models that fly" by Kelvin Shacklock (Amazon linky here). It starts off at a nice slow pace, I like the 3 column structure and the first "model" is about as easy as it can get (a chucky glider made out of basically 2 bits of sheet balsa!).

 

So, to my "newbie" questions:

 

1) I'm looking at getting a thin and medium CA glue to start with. My wife is currently pregnant though (and we've got a young daughter) and I'm concerned about the fumes (building will have to be done in the living room until we move). I've noticed there are odourless CA glues available (found reference to them in the Feb-2008 RCME article "Sticky Stuff").

 

Does odourless mean no fumes at all, or does it mean they're still there but you just can't smell 'em?

 

2) Anyone out there with a finished Micro T trainer (project 3 in my book)? I've only found reference on this forum and any other for people building them, no mention of anyone having finished one! If you do have one, is it, as Shacklock suggests, a good first trainer?

 

If you got through all that without skipping anything you deserve a pat on the back!

 

Thanks

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

Hi Ian,

 

and welcome on board! And "well done" for mastering the link process!

 

First question: with young children around your work area I really wouldn't use CA. Its an accident waiting to happen. Also (OK I'm being a bit old fashioned here - but that's me!) while CA certainly has its uses in building model aircraft I personally don't think its the truely all round 'use it for everything' adhesive some folks reckon.

 

I believe that on many loaded joints CA can prove to be rather brittle.

 

So, what to use? Well I would recommend either PVA (white woodworking glue) or aliphatic resin. Both of these are much more user friendly, and safer with a little one about.

 

Both, correctly used, will give you a joint every bit as strong as any CA - certainly stronger than the wood itself - and more flexible and shock absorbing than CA. The only disadvantage of these adhedsives compared to CA is that they are not as fast setting - but that is an advantage as often as a disadvantage as it gives you time to adjust things and make sure they are perfectly aligned before everything sets.

 

Don't get me wrong - CA does have some good uses in modelling. For example when you do need to "grab" something quickly and when you have very tightly fitting, interlocking, parts when its "wicking" properties by capillary action are valuable allowing you to get the glue into tight spots! But in 99% of cases PVA and Aliphatics are at least as good as CA - and much safer when prying fingers are about

 

BEB

[fly boy3]

Welcome to the forum Ian, this is the best place for Q&A on all things flying. Sorry I cannot answer the questions, but you will get the answer on this forum. I would like to stress the dangers of cyano fumes if not used in very well ventilated area. Building indoors due to the cold winter I experienced very bad symtoms indeed after inhaling these fumes. Two visits to the Doc, and three weeks to get well !. Keep mother to be well away. Please do not let these facts put you off building, but as long as you are aware of the dangers. I now move model out side to use cyano, then return to shed to progress. Cheers FB3

[fly boy3]

Well put BEB. Cheers.

[Malcolm Fisher]

BEB, you beat me to it.

 

Add my "Welcome" to Ian, with the warning that model flying is addictive.

I heartily endorse what you say about adhesives. Unless you are in a real hurry I don't see any advantage in using CA.

I used to keep some in my flight box for emergency field repairs - until I realised that most of these were best done back in the shed...

 

For me, PVA, epoxy resins (for some places where I think it is better than PVA), some contact adhesive for such as doublers and old fashioned balsa cement for planking are all I use.

 

Malcolm

Edited By Malcolm Fisher on 12/08/2011 21:38:00

[IanH]

Hi chaps, some excellent advice there thank you.

 

Prying fingers are definitely a concern (I think the plan will be for most building to be done after baby bed-time and then tidied away before baby wakey-time, to make sure scalpels and such aren't left lying around!), so thanks for that (I still remember helping a friend when I was much younger unstick his baby-sister's fingers who found his superglue on a low shelf... It took hours!).

 

PVA seems like the way to go to begin with then, and it looks to be cheaper too. Plus a bit of googling suggests it has no harmful fumes, double bonus I'll get a small cyano tube and use it outside when I have to.

Edited By IanH on 12/08/2011 21:52:18

[David Ashby - Moderator]

Hi Ian and welcome.

 

The Micro-T looks like a perfectly good trainer and although I've never seen one, the book's pedigree would point to it being very suitable.

 

There are other trad-build trainers and a list is here which may be worth a look.

 

Good luck, keep us posted and don't hesitate to ask.....

Edited By David Ashby - RCME Administrator on 13/08/2011 06:39:15

[David Davis]

Hi Ian

 

Great to hear that you're interested in learning how to build!

 

When you join a club, you will find colleagues who will be interested in helping you.

 

Best of Luck and I endorse everyone else's remarks about CA and babies.

 

Dave Davis

[Peter Miller]

Great to hear someone who wants to build. Welcome to real modelling.

 

On the subject of CA. The odourless don't seem to give off any fumes. I have to use them but I only use them for joints that will hold me up for some time. AS has ben said, with youngsters around they could be very serious trouble. Note that acetone (Nail Varnish remover) will dissolve CA)

 

You say that the plans look complicated and it is true that they can be pretty intimidating however if you take a plan and can find a build blog for that model on this forum you can follow a lot of the construction step by step. Tim Hooper's Airspeed Courier is a good example.

 

However you have chosen a wise path of building a very simple model as your first. That gives you the practice to learn basic techniques. After that the more complicated models really just mean a lot more bits to cut out.

 

[Rob]

Hi Ian, just to add my twopenneth worth I always use pva ,epoxy etc and only rarely use CA glue for some of the same reasons as you (small pokey little fingers and nasty fumes) Pva also gives a bit of wiggle time compaired to the almost instant grab CA has.

Welcome to the world of balsa bashing and hope that you enjoy it as much as I do.

[ken anderson.]

wellcome from me ian......

 

ken anderson ne...1 ...... wellcome dept

[Josip Vrandecic -Mes]

Ian,welcome and enjoy this is the right place for you...

Cheers

Jo

[IanH]

Thank you for the hearty hello and good advice from you all, always a sign of a good forum

 

Just ordering the last of my tools and materials, and hope to get stuck into the first few projects from the book in the next week or so (Looking forward to the 'lacky-band powered J-3 Cub, the first "proper" model in the book). I expect the questions will come flowing shortly after!

Edited By IanH on 13/08/2011 21:26:40

[Shaunie]

Hi Ian,

I'm new here too, but not new to building although I have had a loooong break. Here's my advice. Break your building project into manageable chunks (I don't mean literally ), obviously you need to keep a general idea of the big picture but if you look at the whole aircraft build as one item you will never seem to make headway. Pick a part of the build you can reasonably finish in one session, maybe build the fin, shape a set of ribs, whatever, so that you can finish up with a sense of satisfaction that the project is a little farther forward. Very soon all the small steps will add up to a noticeable level of progress.

Also if it's not going well, stop building and watch the telly, carry on another day. Other wise you will either wreck something or leave yourself something you will have to try and dismantle to put right when the glue has well and truly gone off!

When I was a young and single fanatic I used to reckon a sport model (40-60 size) took me six weeks of every spare moment to build, 2 for the airframe, 2 for the covering and 2 for the engine/radio fit, although I did think I was quite a bit more fussy than some of my friends.

Good luck with building. Shaun

[Ben B]

Welcome!

 

Personally I'd strongly consider building a kit before building from a plan. With a kit it has instructions with a plan (unless there's a magazine article to go with it) you are on your own. Learning the techniques, tips and tricks used from the kit build can be useful.

[andy watson]

I use gallons of cyano- I think it's ace stuff. Nothing more frustrating than settling down to an evenings building and finding the progress limited to sticking one piece to another, pinning it then having to wait! The "brittle" joints have not proved troublesome to me.

 

I am lucky enough not to have to worry about fumes with a well ventilated workshop away from little fingers.

 

If your moving anywhere near Bury/Manchester let me know- you can give us a visit.

 

Andy

 

ps Gallons is an exageration.

[IanH]

Hi folks, thanks for the further advice...

 

I have now progressed quite a long way with my first build, a free-flight, rubber-band powered Piper Cub, with the plans and detailed instructions from the book I mentioned in my original post.

 

I have learned the hard way Shaun that having a realistic idea of what I want to get accomplished in an evening (often I only have 30 mins to an hour spare) helps a lot so your advice is definitely spot on I think. There have been a few nights I've tried to get too much done, gone to bed too late as a result, and suffered at work the next day (much to the amusement of my work colleagues)!

 

Ben, thanks for the tip, although as you can see I'm afraid it's a bit late now! I'm finding the book I'm using very detailed in its instruction (for the most part) and as well as detailing how to do something, it usually explains why it should be done too, so definitely learning a lot. I am considering buying a Chris Foss Middle Phase kit in the beginning of 2012 though, so I'll get a bit of kit building under my belt then

 

Hi Andy, I expect once I have longer to work in a single session (how long is it before children stop requiring constant care and attention ) I'll find more use for quicker drying glues so that I can crack on with the next part of the build, but for now, I'm finding that PVA forces me to stop and take a step back, which when starting out I reckon might be a good thing. The few times I've used the odourless CA I bought it's not normally ended well as I find I've usually got something out of alignment etc, hence the slightly off-centre tail fin on my current build. Went for a job in Manchester I had a good chance of getting, but it was withdrawn when the current delightful government announced their deficit-reducing policies, and I'm still looking

 

Piccy of current build below (taken with rubbish phone camera). I'll pop a thread in the Trad. Kits & Plans section when I'm finished, probably with a photo of the splintered wreckage after its first flight in this incessant wind!

 

Edit: must learn to write more succinct forum posts instead of the current long waffle!

Edited By IanH on 28/09/2011 21:12:10

[legslambert]

Hi Ian,

 

I am also much inspired by this book and am pleased to see your model which looks great in this photo. Nice job. Would like to have a go at this myself at some point. Have you finished it now?

[wayne drinkwater]

Hi Ian and welcome i have that book and indeed built the Micro T and yes it flew well and many at our club flew it and all agreed it to be a good model but alas I no longer have it I got rid of it an one of the club auctions, I still regret doing that and will probably build another in the not too distant future

[Steve W-O]

I can only comment on the odourless CA, in that it doesn't give me a headache or close my chest.

 

 

As for "(how long is it before children stop requiring constant care and attention )", don't know, got to 33 years and still counting. Although not entirely correct, as it is by email as she is 6500 miles away

As for the 14 month old, he has his fingers in everything, removes batteries from phones then tries to open them with a screwdriver, turns the oven/washing machine/dishwasher on in a fraction of a second if he follows us into the kitchen, plugs things into the USB ports, removes them when you are using them, turns any dial and pushes any button, throws everything over the landing, climbs up everything. When he is awake, he has to be watched every second, then they get older, and have to be taken everywhere, helped with school projects, their computers/RC cars/hairdryers etc fixed, (and homework, so don't forget your calculus) so don't think of lots of spare time for another 20 years or so

We have three in the house at the moment, 15, 10 and 14 months, so there is a fair range of tasks, but I till manage a few hours at the weekends, though rarely during the week.

I wouldn't change it though!

[ricky]

hi ian and welcome
me and you are very similar..im mid 30's and new to the rc world too (about 5 months)..i bought the art tech diamond 2500 (not the best choice for a newbie lol)..i also bought the pheonix sim and it made me the pilot i am now hehe..loving the rc world right now with plans on non motorised gliders for the future,but for now im happy with the bird i have..gives me plenty more time to do homework on my next plane..hope all goes well mate

ricky

[IanH]

Posted by legslambert on 07/01/2012 00:09:39:
I am also much inspired by this book and am pleased to see your model which looks great in this photo. Nice job. Would like to have a go at this myself at some point. Have you finished it now?

 

Thanks for the compliment. It's far from perfect though, but I've really enjoyed it and has been a great learning experience. The tissue is on now, it just needs doping (and a few tears patching where I've not been gentle enough!) and I've managed to find some almost odourless shrinking dope too (EZE dope I think it's called). As a complete beginner I can definitely recommend it as an achievable first project. I'll pop a photo on here when I've finished it.

 

As an aside, over Xmas my father-in-law got a few of his old free-flight models from the loft which he built back in the 70s, and even after 30-40 years of sitting in a damp loft, they still put my first effort to shame! There's definitely a lot of room for improvement, but looking forward to the challenge

 

Posted by wayne drinkwater on 07/01/2012 01:51:27:
Hi Ian and welcome i have that book and indeed built the Micro T and yes it flew well and many at our club flew it and all agreed it to be a good model but alas I no longer have it I got rid of it an one of the club auctions, I still regret doing that and will probably build another in the not too distant future

 

Glad to hear that it's a good flyer. If you do build a new one I'm sure there's plenty of people that would love to see a build blog, or at least a few photos of the build. I've been finding other people's build blogs invaluable. The building of my Micro-T has stalled after the wife came home to find I'd constructed a 5 and a half foot wing building board in the living room! So that's gone in the loft for now and planes have been limited to those that fit on the dining table. When/if we ever move and I get the garage/shed I desire, I'll be cracking on with it.

 

For now, the building's been replaced by a Middle Phase kit (the wing is still quite large, but at least I can complete each half separately before joining), which I just started yesterday and am enjoying so far.

Posted by Steve W-O on 07/01/2012 06:02:40
We have three in the house at the moment, 15, 10 and 14 months, so there is a fair range of tasks, but I till manage a few hours at the weekends, though rarely during the week.

 

Three?? One's hard enough (21 months old and her favourite word is "YouTube"!) and we've another one due in a couple of months. That's more than enough to keep us busy. Plane building and any other hobbies have been relegated to late evenings and whatever you can fit into nap time!

 

You're right though, I wouldn't change it either

 

 

Posted by ricky76 on 11/01/2012 14:49:44
me and you are very similar..im mid 30's and new to the rc world too (about 5 months)..i bought the art tech diamond 2500 (not the best choice for a newbie lol)..i also bought the pheonix sim and it made me the pilot i am now hehe..loving the rc world right now with plans on non motorised gliders for the future,but for now im happy with the bird i have..gives me plenty more time to do homework on my next plane..hope all goes well mate

 

Hi ricky, I found the Radian challenging enough for a beginner so well done on not smashing yours on the first go! Certainly share your view on gliders, hence my current Middle Phase build. Plan is to have it finished by June for a holiday down by the Jurassic Coast in Dorset. There's a large cliff there called the Golden Cap which looks like the perfect place to soar

 

Right, that's enough typing, the house has fallen quiet at last which means it's time to get back to the Middle Phase.

Edited By IanH on 11/01/2012 20:12:48

Edited By IanH on 11/01/2012 20:13:27

[ricky]

il keep my eyes peeled for your photos ect..happy gliding