Small Diesels

[Chris Channon]

Hi all, just wondering if you can help.

I today, was given two small diesels one is a "Merlin" which i have heard of, the other is a marinised "Snipe" complete with brass flywheel and ( it looks like) an enamalled exhaust and enamelled head, both green.( made in OIM stamped on the crankcase)

Has anyone heard of these and what are they like to run? Both are complete a little grubby but seem to turn over nicely.

Thank you

Chris.

[ken anderson.]

hello chris....i might be showing my age here....they are (i'm 99%) certain ME engines made in the UK...the initials stand for marown engineering in the isle of man...try a google for ME diesel engines..... i had a ME heron also 1cc ..... circa 1964........

 

ken anderson ne..1..... old diesels dept.....

 

 

 ps-i've just googled the name and you can get all the info you need.

Edited By ken anderson. on 12/09/2011 17:00:26

[Richard Wood]

Hi Chris,

I think the Merlin was made by Davies Charlton & is 0.75cc.

I had a 1cc Spitfire years ago which ran very well once I got the

contra piston backed off so it would turn over properly!

 

[Myron Beaumont]

Most people that I knew never got the hang of DC Merlins /Frogs /ED bees and the like that have been mentioned with their spring prop things etc Probably due to the criticality of the amyl nitrate additive that they needed (anti-Knock stuff for you young'uns ) I think that that is why the non over square /long stroke Mills engines are still the ultimate in small diesels.Ohh -I want another one or two ! Do Lord Boddos peeps still make them ?

Myron YO13 - Animal welfare & old 'modellers dept

 

 

Sorry NE 1 Couldn't help it

[ken anderson.]

.... ne...1... laughter dept. .... (sorry chris)

[PatMc]

The Snipe is 1.5cc. I have an aero version with throttle carb in my diesel collection which I was going to use in my Veron Deacon but electrified it instead.

 

 

[Peter Miller]

DC. Merlins were great little engine, The Spitfire was nice, originally an Allbon engine as were the .5cc Dart and the 1.5cc Javelin. I loved that Javelin.

 

The ME Snipe and Heron were OK but never as popular as the other names.

 

I always preferred ED engines, The Bee was a dream, The later one with the side exhaust was not. The ED Hornet was good but never started as awell as the Bee.

 

The Frog 50 was notorius as a non-runner. The 100 and 150 were good but my favourite was the 150 Vibramatic. Loved that engine.

 

 

[Myron Beaumont]

Peter

' xactly .I must agree .Maybe 'cos I used Amyl Nitrite ,not nitrate in my homebrews that I a\lways had starting probs. The worst of all was the AM (thanks Henry) brew One third each of the basic ingredients .The Mills's ran on it though

Myron -Grounded with severe wind

YO 13 Reminiscing dept

[Peter Miller]

Never bothered with Nitrite or Nitrate when I did make home brew

 

I normally used Mercury fuel myself.

 

AMs were OK, especially in the bigger sizes but none of them were hard to start.

 

Elfins were another make but I never had one of those. They were supposed to be very good.

 

The starter spring was a waste of effort on the DC engines. You only needed a good, well trained flicking finger.

[PatMc]

Posted by Peter Miller on 12/09/2011 18:54:44:

DC. Merlins were great little engine, The Spitfire was nice, originally an Allbon engine as were the .5cc Dart and the 1.5cc Javelin. I loved that Javelin.

 

The ME Snipe and Heron were OK but never as popular as the other names.

 

I always preferred ED engines, The Bee was a dream, The later one with the side exhaust was not. The ED Hornet was good but never started as awell as the Bee.

 

The Frog 50 was notorius as a non-runner. The 100 and 150 were good but my favourite was the 150 Vibramatic. Loved that engine.

 

 

You'll recognise these then

 

The Vibromatic was one of my favourites, but the AM 35 was my first "proper" c/l engine, I liked all of the AM range particularly the AM10. They always had a good power to weight ratio compared with most other economically priced engines & i never had any problems starting any of them.

 

I used nitrate when I could get it but my standard brew for the AM35 was 50/25/25 paraffin/oil ether, I used engine oil 'cause it was cheap, easy to get & diesels don't need castor so mineral oil was OK.

[Myron Beaumont]

I really don't remember the "vibromatic" engine afore-mentioned.Tell me more!

[Alan Randall]

I Started control line with and ED Super Fury and in radio control with a KK Mini Super fitted with an AM15, Single channel Radio Guidance System TX/RX and Elmic Conquest escapement.My favorite engine was the ED Racer. The smell of diesel fuel still makes me go all nostalgic.

[buster prop]

Long ago I used to brew diesel fuel with the same mix as posted by PatMc. One thing you could do in about 1970 was buy ether at the chemist, imagine going into a chemist now and trying to buy ether! I too had a Frog 50, described above as a non runner. They were tricky and the only way I got mine running was by upping the oil content of the fuel. I think the piston to liner fit wasn't good and the extra oil formed a seal. Not Frog's best engine, the DC dart, 0.55 cc, was much better. The 0.76 cc DC Merlin was also good, in fact I lost mine in a FF model fly away.

[Malcolm Fisher]

Pat, I'm jealous

 

Your collection looks in far better condition than my diesels. I sort of lost heart when most including a Bambi and a Taplin Twin, were stolen from my shed some years ago.

 

I have several of the engines mentioned and use a DC Merlin as a power pod. It has taken my Impala and Kamco Kloudrider aloft many times.

 

I still have a Spitfire in a KK Skystreak which is still in flyable condition

As for AM, I have a ten, still with its green anodised tank, and a twentyfive. Stupidly I lent my fifteen to someone and never saw it again.

 

Regarding fuel mixes, I used to use a 2-2-1 ratio of ether paraffin and oil with no additives althoguh I did try an etherless brew which used 20% rape oil and paraffin with one or two percent of Isopropyl nitrate which worked but was difficult to start from cold.

 

Malcolm

Edited By Malcolm Fisher on 12/09/2011 21:43:44

[Myron Beaumont]

Allen

Oh yes ,the ED racer 2.46 cc .The one that didn't quite come up to Olly Tigers /Enya 15d;s standard.Never could understand why 'cos the rpms were there but it obviosly wasn't the main criteria .BHP curves by the likes of Peter Chinn more or less said it was not in the same category .It had the same sort of rpm per given prop size but was never any use at team racing etc ! I still don't know why .If an engine can produce the rpm then what has bhp to do with it ?

[mal brewer]

Posted by Myron Beaumont on 12/09/2011 20:48:57:

I really don't remember the "vibromatic" engine afore-mentioned.Tell me more!

The Frog 150 'Vibromatic' was a rear intake 1.5 cc diesel.The induction system consisted of a spring-loaded petal valve,which opened or closed according to crankcase pressure,in a similar manner to a reed valve.I never owned such an engine,but they seemed to get quite good 'write-ups' in the modelling press.I can confirm the merlin was a good little engine,in fact,I still have one in a Vic Smeed designed Ballerina,and I recently bought one,in a control-line model,for £8 at a car boot sale..................Mal

[PatMc]

Posted by Myron Beaumont on 12/09/2011 21:50:49:

Allen

Oh yes ,the ED racer 2.46 cc .The one that didn't quite come up to Olly Tigers /Enya 15d;s standard.Never could understand why 'cos the rpms were there but it obviosly wasn't the main criteria .BHP curves by the likes of Peter Chinn more or less said it was not in the same category .It had the same sort of rpm per given prop size but was never any use at team racing etc ! I still don't know why .If an engine can produce the rpm then what has bhp to do with it ?

 

Myron, the ED Racer peaked at about the same rpm as the Olly MkII but at lower bhp. This was because it achieved the revs on a smaller prop - i.e. at lower torque.

BHP = torque x RPM

 

Here's the centre page of a freeby booklet from a 1965 Aeromodeller.

The ED Racer was tested in Aug '51 with a revised test done in Nov '54, the Olly MkII was tested in Dec '53 & the MkIII Aug '61.

 

[Peter Miller]

Myron

 

The engine on the extreme right of the top picture is the Frog Vibramatic, You had to be careful ajusting the needle valve because there was a slight time lag between the adjustment and it taking effect. The other two engines at the later Bee and the Hornet.

 

The lower picture has Darts, Merlins, a Spitfire and a Sabre and tucked in at the back is an ME but without any anodising on the head.

 

The Racer was everybody's favourite. Never knew a bad one but I didn't like the later barrel cased versions, mainly from the appearance point of view.

 

If we are going into the bigger engines. The Hunter was quite nice but tended to vibrate. Probably because of unbalanced props on that long shaft. In the 50s it was considered a big brute!

[Peter Miller]

Years ago I talked about the Frog 50 in my "Engine Bay" column. Someone did send me one to run and it started easily and ran well.

 

I did hear that you had to start them for the first time on a 10" prop and once run it they were OK.

[Alan Randall]

The first diesel we had was a second hand AM35 which seemed a real finger biter. The only time I heard my dad swear was when it rapped him on the knuckles.We swapped it for a Mills 75 which was a real sweety as every one knows.

[Steve Hargreaves - Moderator]

In my engine drawer I have an AM10 which is a non-runner but also a DC Sabre which went in my first RC model a R/E Mercury Matador seen below before its first flight on the local school playing fields on Christmas day 1978

 

& I also have what I believe is a Frog 100 (1cc??) which I believe dates from 1950. It was given to me many, many years ago & currently resides in the front of a DB Mini Tyro....

 

Runs beautifuly on Southern Modelcraft Diesel fuel & is flown regularly at my field. It provides more smiles per pound than anything else I have & everyone at the club stops to watch when I fly it......I like to tell myself that they want to watch the model & its nothing to do with my flying skills....

[Engine Doctor]

Hello all . Nostalgia rules ! Our club like many has an certain age group that all used the engines memtioned. A couple of us still use them in vintage designes now converted to radio assist or two channel. The DC Merlin was my first engine when I was about 9 , that got lost somhow but I now have a couple that I use now and a gain. The smell of the fuel brings back all sorts of memories. Our club ,the Medway MFC has frree-flight and radio assit days during the summer and everyone is welcome to come along and fly . The site is on the Isle of Sheppey near Harty which is close to Leysdown. The last FFday this year is on Sunday 25th Sept Starts at 10ish wind and weather permitting. We do charge £3-00 to fly all day and this goes to our club charity, the kent Air Ambulance . So if you live in the south east and want to join in come along.Engine size is limited to 2.5cc we also have a resurgence of control line flying so bring them along and have a go . More details can be found on our website at

www.medwaymfc.org.uk

 

Below is a pic of my frog 150 powered Taylor Craft from a Ben buckle kit . It flys and sound great with the diesel bubling away .

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited By Engine Doctor on 13/09/2011 10:57:43

Edited By Engine Doctor on 13/09/2011 11:00:22

[Formtex1947]

Hello fellow diesel users, I have the age old comp screw crawl on my A-M 1 CC and was wondering
if anyone knows what thread the cop screw is on the "green Head" to allow me to obtain a tap to make a suitable locking device?

Would appreciate any help or advice.
Regards
Richard

[Engine Doctor]

The comp screw creep is probably due to the contra piston being a loose fit . Locking nuts do work but are fiddly and have caused accidents when locking the comp screw near the prop. You can tighten the contra piston by removing it and laying it on a flat metal surface like a vice or similar . use a small ball bearing that fits in the recess where the comp screw fits and tap the ball bearing squarely with a hammer . This will expand the contra piston slightly. Dont over do it but go carefully and test for fit . Sounds brutal but it works every time and ends the moving comp screw problem.

[David Davis]

I built a Veron Cardinal when I was twelve. It was my first successful model aeroplane. Without it I wouldn't be involved in the hobby today. I built another one for two channel r/c over the winter but haven't flown it yet. The boys in the club are very interested in the engine, a Mills 75 which powered the original Cardinal. The weather looks promising both today and tomorrow. Watch this space!

Edited By David Davis on 16/05/2017 11:02:08