UMX Gee Bee

[Tim Kearsley]

I thought I'd post this to alert others and hopefully help them avoid a possible weak point with this lovely little model.

The batteries (2S Lipos) for these little planes have a piece of Velcro attached to the narrow side, which then engages with a piece of Velcro under the cowl. From the outset I thought the battery didn't seem very secure.

Anyway, I took the model up to the field a few days ago and flew it. First flight - brilliant, though really it was a bit too windy for a 3 oz piece of foam! Still, the AS3X system coped superbly.

Changed battery - still not convinced, but let's go with it - started another flight. Going well, so pulled a nice loop. Oh dear - at the bottom of the loop the Gee Bee becomes uncontrollable and is clearly catastrophically tail-heavy. I fight with it for 20 seconds but the wind is taking it out of reach and eventually it disappears - across the road and into a field of corn!!

I'm almost certain that what happened was that the battery came loose and ended up hanging back into the fuselage, resulting in a huge shift in the CG rearwards.

I couldn't trample through the farmer's field of ripe corn, so the model was lost. Just be careful of that battery folks and don't be as stupid as I was!

Tim.

[Mark Powell 2]

Exactly what one expects from a ready-built foam toy rather than a properly built (by you) model aircraft.

[Tim Kearsley]

Well, that's a tad harsh in my opinion! Yes, they are tiny bits of foam but they actually fly surprisingly well. I also have the UMX MiG-15 and that is an astonishing flyer.

I blame myself, not the model, and I posted the story to try to help others avoid my silly mistake.

Tim.

[Rex Keene]

The velcro's not the strongest, I've the same system on my UMX Beast.

But they're great little planes, well worth the money.

[Mark Powell 2]

Yes, I have even thought of buying one of these little foam things myself, to fly in my back garden. But in th end I built a scaled down to 20 inches version of Ken Willard's 1950's 'Breezy' biplane as I would feel a bit of a fool flying a childrens toy at 67 years old. Maybe that is just me.

You say you made 'a silly mistake'. It is not a mistake on your part at all to expect what is a fairly expensive device to perform properly without modification. But they so rarely do. In a mad moment I bought a pretty expensive fibreglass and built up wing EDF. A well reviewed plane from a well known manufacturer. Cost well over £300 with the fan and motor and the optional elecric retracts. Flies quite well, but would be so much better if it wasn't so heavy. I have since copied in all balsa, using a Hacker motor and a Wemotec fan. It weighs 5lbs rather than 7 1/2, has far more thrust, and flies twice as well.

I am not saying that to amaze you with my 'expertise'. Simply to illustrate that manufactures seem to make these things to fly well enough to sell, but nowhere near as well as they could fly if done properly.

[Erfolg]

I am always disappointed when modellers refer to foam models as toys. It seems prevalent with us older modellers, locked into the 1960's.

As for your loss, it may be to late, as the Lipo could have drained, but go to the field, with the transmitter. Switch on, waggle the sticks. It is surprising how much noise servos make, particularly noticeable when quite.

I lost my model on Sunday, in one of two wheat fields. I finally used the technique and found it very quickly.

[Mark Powell 2]

Erfolg,

I actually agree with you, I think of all ARTFs as toys, not just foam ones, though I do buy the occasional one (I have two) when they are models of planes that I like, but not enough to put the effort into building them. The new Black Horse Wyvern, fitted with a Wren turboprop, comes to mind, but I don't think my bank manager will buy this toy for me. Also they have the advantage that you don't get attached to one. Crash it and just buy another. Simple. It used to be called 'Cheque book modelling'.

But I am old enough to think of 'my' hobby, maybe not other peoples, as 'aeromodelling'. It is most certainly not aeromodelling at all to just buy a plane, fit the engine etc. and fly it. It may be a factories aeromodelling, but it is not yours. So, by any definition I can think of, they are toys.

But to be fair, how many golfers, for example, build their own clubs? very few I expect.

But please don't call it 'aeromodelling', it isn't.

[TinPot Pilot]

Mark,

I have a number of ARTFs and haven't built from a kit as yet. However I have rebult a number of planes after crashes entailing cutting new ribs, insetting new balsa,replacing broken ply, recovering and rehinging and in one case fitting the wing from one plane to another. Am I an "aeromodeller" yet? or am I just playing with toys? 

Edited By TinPot Pilot on 07/08/2012 11:01:15

[Tim Kearsley]

Oh dear, things do go off-topic quickly don't they?!

I posted originally to try and warn any other UMX Gee Bee owners not to be as daft as I was! Now we are into arguments about what constitutes an "aeromodeller". For goodness sake, why can't we all just enjoy the hobby without bothering about whether what we fly are toys, whether we are "proper" aeromodellers etc, etc ad nauseum. If your main interest is in flying, rather than building then ARTF's are just the job. On the other hand, if your main interest is in building, then that's fine too isn't it? What does it matter?

Tim.

[Mark Powell 2]

Tinpot Pilot,

You are obvoiusly taking the first steps. Soon you will probably build one from a kit or plan and you will be an 'Aeromodeller'. And what's more, you will find it brings a great deal more satisfaction.

But I am amazed how many people I see who throw an ARTF away after even minor damage and just buy another. They usually give up and move to their next fad after a year or so. Possibly because they never get even near to designing, building, and flying, starting with a blank sheet of paper. Not their fault, they never know what they have missed. It can be a terrific hobby. Indoors designing, which requires a lot of 'artistic' imagination, also thinking in a 'technical and engineering way', maybe research, in the workshop building utilising 'craft skills', both pretty solitary activities, and then the flying, which can be very social, and is far more challenging that operating any kind of surface vehicle. Then there is a pleasure in finding all your ideas and work have come out right, or at least show potential. In the last year I have started on medium to large size own design or much modified EDFs. Most have not flown very well, but I am getting there.That is the challenge.Few other interests can give you all that. Nor can an ARTF.

Tim,

you said 'Cant we all just enjoy the hobby'. Yes, yes, yes. Just a day or so ago one of the guys who flies at the same site as me said how he hates flying with helicopters there and they should be banned. I've got two, but am not in any way 'dedicated' to them. I said he was nuts, we have enough hassle with the public already. They are all 'aircraft', as are home-built models and ARTFs. Personally, if I had your GeeBee I would be itching to disable the gyro functions and see how it flew without their assistance. But here on this site we are not flying. Personaly I have no 'main interest' in building or flying, there is, to me, no split between the two. If I see an ARTF I really like, I will buy it. Done that only twice so far.

[Erfolg]

Oh dear!

This is so reminiscent of road cyclist who despised mountain bikers. The difference at the moment, road cyclist came to embrace mount biking, applauded triathletes.

Will us modellers become such a catholic church?

I live in genuine hope.

More importantly are you making any plans Tim, to try and find the Gee Bee?

[Simon B]

Mark's responses make me extremely sad. It all seems very judgemental.  I build from plans and also own ARTFs.  It's A HOBBY, not life or death.

Edited By Simon B on 07/08/2012 13:50:44

[Mark Powell 2]

In my last response I was trying to be positive. As I said, I have two ARTFs , a Great Planes Little Tony (Cosmic Wind pylon racer for a 90) and a Graupner BO209 (much like a Cherokee) and am perfectly happy with them. No doubt I will buy more. The 'anti-helicopter' guy I talked about has a Black Horse 120 size Chipmunk, with a Lazer 150, that flies so well and realistically that I am very tempted to get one. My E-Flite Habu EDF is not exactly an ARTF, but is close to being one.

From my observations at Beaulieu, Hampshire, the only place I fly, I find most people have a mixture of home-built and ARTFs, as do I. But I do observe that some of the ARTF only guys seem to vanish after a year or so. That's just my observation of only one site. I think the fascination of bulding from scratch may keep people in the hobby. It is amazing the interest there is when someone comes along with a home-built or kit aircraft, even something relatively 'ordinary' such as a Topfite Cessna 182.

[Simon B]

I started with a RTF foamie and it was the best way for me. I had no emotional attachment, bar the cash i'd spent, so I was happy to keep patching it up and didn't care that it looked awful. I progressed to ARTFs and didn't have the money to just bin them (do people really do this?), so bodged repairs. This led to me getting into that side and then turned my hand to West Wings kits and eventually scratch builds. Having just gone out with my Acro Wot Foam-E for the first time today I still like a plane i've put no effort into, in fact I think I enjoyed flying it more for that!

As for the GeeBee, i've had other microfliers and the adhesive that holds on the velcro can be a bit suspect. I've reglued where necessary.

[Erfolg]

For many of us modellers we did not start with a RC kit, or a plan.

I started with a Walther, catapult glider.

I later built a few balsa stick models. Yet I am not sure that even the models I build today are proper models, when they are made out of balsa and ply and all the other stuff.

No more than when I used to build glass fibre gliders from moulds, some having foam cores, cut by others, glassed wings.

Are the gliders so loved by Andy Ellison proper models, or mere toys.

All model aircraft require some skill, some more than others, many ARTF's are much better than my offerings, I am not ashamed of them, nor are they intrinsically better just because I make them. I just admire what is possible, by factory made models.

They all are good with their own merits and faults.

[Chris Bott - Moderator]

Tim that's useful information about the lovely little UMX Gee Bee.

Mark I think maybe you should read your first post again and consider how it comes accross.
This is a frendly forum and the vast majority of users like it because it is so freindly.

There are many different reasons for why different people fly different types of model, I personally enjoy building and flying but I have plenty of respect for others who approach the hobby other ways.

Please, let's keep this thread about the model in question and how the battery is retained.

[Simon B]

Well said Chris.

[richard cohen]

Tim, i'm not sure how big or colourful the model is (but i am guessing its quite small) but if you cannot find it by walking the tractor tracks listening for servo chatter then it is always worth seeing if the farmer is local and asking him to look out for it when spraying the crop or harvesting it. We have 2 rape seed fields along our airfield and several models have gone in. Some were found by field walking but others were located by offering a beer token to the tractor driver who was crop spraying who spotted and collected them. We even had one last year found 2 months later by the combined harvester driver before it got ingested. It was a fibreglass fuselage and turned out to be very water proof with no damage to electrics/servos/rx. I guess a foam model might fare equally well to a few weeks in the crop ?

In light of other comments, the only reason i dont fly leccy/foamie models is coz i dont understand electrikkery . Having seen the range, detail and flying abilities of these newer models i feel i might be missing out at times. While I love the noise of a four stroke, the amount of support equipment needed makes me jealous of the speed and minimal needs of leccy models.

Ignore the doubters, find yer model, and fly the wings off it and above all, have fun. (just fix the battery issue ! )

Rich

[Tim Kearsley]

Thanks for the comments chaps. I have been back to the field, but without any luck I'm afraid. I don't know who owns the field, so contacting the farmer is difficult.

In respect of the wider scope this thread veered off to encompass, I too prefer larger, conventionally built models - in fact I have an inherent dislike of foam! But these little UMX models with AS3X stabilisation really do fly quite unlike you would expect a piece of foam weighing three ounces to!!

Anyway, thanks again.

Tim.

[James40]

Tim, is there a vantage point you can see over the tops of the corn or somewhere you can put some steps to give you a height advantage? I wouldn't let this go so easily, they are so light weight that there will probably be little damage from the crash so well worth recovering.

Mark Powell; your attitude saddens me.

[Rich too]

Posted by Mark Powell 2 on 07/08/2012 14:25:12:

In my last response I was trying to be positive. As I said, I have two ARTFs , a Great Planes Little Tony (Cosmic Wind pylon racer for a 90) and a Graupner BO209 (much like a Cherokee) and am perfectly happy with them. No doubt I will buy more. The 'anti-helicopter' guy I talked about has a Black Horse 120 size Chipmunk, with a Lazer 150, that flies so well and realistically that I am very tempted to get one. My E-Flite Habu EDF is not exactly an ARTF, but is close to being one.

From my observations at Beaulieu, Hampshire, the only place I fly, I find most people have a mixture of home-built and ARTFs, as do I. But I do observe that some of the ARTF only guys seem to vanish after a year or so. That's just my observation of only one site. I think the fascination of bulding from scratch may keep people in the hobby. It is amazing the interest there is when someone comes along with a home-built or kit aircraft, even something relatively 'ordinary' such as a Topfite Cessna 182.

Just had to add - I'm a traditional builder from the 80's, but now i'm older with a job and a family I have less time for building - i've got kits over ten years old waiting to be built!!

Don't forget the ARTF's and foamies have also made the hobby a lot more accessible.

Rich

[Erfolg]

Any way does the stability control help, normally?

I have seen small FF conversions, they do fly, often with little real control, does the Gee Bee allow control?

More importantly have you found it, no, then go back? Have you tried the Tx stick thrashing, it does work.

Edited By Erfolg on 08/08/2012 12:08:57

[Tim Kearsley]

Yes, the gyro stabilisation helps enormously. I also have the AS3X-equipped MiG-15 and that flies astonishingly well for a 3-oz piece of foam! I did find on the Gee Bee (before it crashed!) that at high throttle level there was a slight "rocking" in the roll axis, which I suspect might be a bit of feedback from perhaps too high a gain setting on that axis?

No, I have not found the model unfortunately. I am trying to find out the farmer's contact details. I did try the stick-waggling technique immediately after it happened, but without any luck. One problem is that I was some 100+ metres from the model by the time it came down (there was quite a breeze that day), with two hedges between it and me, so knowing with any precision just where it landed is impossible.

It's very annoying, because as one poster said, it is so light that there's likely not too much damage.

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

It's so frustrating isn't it? To know that it's there - somewhere - probably pretty well undamaged to boot - but not be able to find it. Grrrr! I really feel for you.

Thinking caps on chaps - there has to be a way to find this.

BEB

[Richard Carpenter]

Tim, does anyone at your site fly with a key fob camera or similar they could use to undertake some aerial reconnaissance? I'm sure Stephan Grigg reported using this method a while back to find a model. Might be difficult depending on the location of the farmers field, but worth a punt.