Codename-John Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 Posted by avtur on 01/01/2015 10:16:09: One has to accept that the ownership of weapons in the USA will never be effectively controlled, the population is vast and the number of weapons in circulation so numerous that effective control will never happen, I accept that. My comment isn't based on this one incident, child related accidental deaths involving fire arms are a regular occurrence. Having lived in the USA I'm quite familiar with attitudes that persist there, my experience is that there are many people who oppose the right to bear arms but the the NRA are so powerful nothing will change, that's a shame when there are so many gun related deaths. I appreciate that guns don't kill on their own, they have to fired by someone and that will always lay the blame with people rather than guns. In the instance quoted the mother was described as a responsible person, so how the does her own child manage to gain access to the fire arm and cause this tragic event. It's tragic enough that the mother died but this happened in a public place, the victim could have been anyone. Edited By avtur on 01/01/2015 10:17:20 You can`t ban everything because some people have accidents. Search some actual facts online instead of sensationalist headlines and you will see that even in the US, accidental Firearm deaths is a tiny proportion of the mortality rate, Heart Disease is by far the biggest killer over there, accidental deaths is a small percentage of the total. Firearms is a tiny percentage of the accidental total, with the majority Motor vehicle accidents, drowning, fire etc. Sometimes you just have to accept Darwinism for the benefits it brings to society Edited By Codename-John on 01/01/2015 17:39:40 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Hopkin Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 Posted by Codename-John on 01/01/2015 17:38:49: Posted by avtur on 01/01/2015 10:16:09: One has to accept that the ownership of weapons in the USA will never be effectively controlled, the population is vast and the number of weapons in circulation so numerous that effective control will never happen, I accept that. My comment isn't based on this one incident, child related accidental deaths involving fire arms are a regular occurrence. Having lived in the USA I'm quite familiar with attitudes that persist there, my experience is that there are many people who oppose the right to bear arms but the the NRA are so powerful nothing will change, that's a shame when there are so many gun related deaths. I appreciate that guns don't kill on their own, they have to fired by someone and that will always lay the blame with people rather than guns. In the instance quoted the mother was described as a responsible person, so how the does her own child manage to gain access to the fire arm and cause this tragic event. It's tragic enough that the mother died but this happened in a public place, the victim could have been anyone. Edited By avtur on 01/01/2015 10:17:20 You can`t ban everything because some people have accidents. Search some actual facts online instead of sensationalist headlines and you will see that even in the US, accidental Firearm deaths is a tiny proportion of the mortality rate, Heart Disease is by far the biggest killer over there, accidental deaths is a small percentage of the total. Firearms is a tiny percentage of the accidental total, with the majority Motor vehicle accidents, drowning, fire etc. Sometimes you just have to accept Darwinism for the benefits it brings to society Edited By Codename-John on 01/01/2015 17:39:40 Sorry I disagree totally and utterly - Firearms maybe a tiny percentage of total deaths, but when we see sthe likes of Thurston High School (23 Dead), Columbine High School (21 Dead) and Sandy Hook Primary School (27 Dead) plus a list that extends to 3 pages on Wikepedia under "school shootings usa" then action needs to be taken - firearms dont themselves dont kill, people do and most of the shootings were carried out not by the registered owner of the firearm but someone who lived in the same house and tool them As someone who is ex army and reasonably familiar with assualt weapons, they are designed for one purpose and one purpose only - to kill people effeciently - there is no earthy reason for a civilian to own one at all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codename-John Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 The FBI crime statistics for 2011 show that while 323 murders were committed with a rifle, 496 murders were committed with hammers and clubs. Shall we ban hammers and clubs? They are more dangerous than rifles. Nearly twice as many people are killed by hands and fists each year than are killed by murderers who use shotguns. People are 60 percent more likely to die from a knife or sharp instrument than rifles and shotguns combined. It is also true that 67% of homicides are committed by guns, but these homicides are mostly caused by handguns as opposed to the “assault guns” Dianne Feinstein believes must be banned. As homicides with guns have gone down, the data also shows that the amount of people killed by hammers, clubs and other blunt instruments continues to rise each year though not to the level of gun deaths yet. Edited By Codename-John on 01/01/2015 18:35:57 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete B Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 Looking at your FBI stats link, CJ, you seem to have overlooked the 6220 who were killed with handguns..... and that poor misguided woman sure as heck didn't have an assault rifle or shotgun in her handbag..... Using your source, out of 12664 murder victims, 8583 died as a result of a firearm. You can be as selective as you like to try and prove a point but the fact remains, giving the great unwashed unfettered access to guns can only make things worse. Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Miller Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 I have a question. After the Hungerford killings there was a ban on owing automatic weapond=s and pump shot guns. Frgive me if I have not got the categories exactly right, After the Dunlane massacre there was a total ban on the ownership of all handguns. So much so that even our Olympic team had to keep their guns in France and go over there to practice.. (How did all the teams get permission to bring their guns to the Olymics? Oh of course, the great GOD SPort) Now my question is: A similar massacre could easily be committed with a couple of shotguns and a few boxes of cartridges. If that happened does anyone think that there would be even the slightest suggestion of banning shotguns? I will say that I havd no objection to guns myseff and have done a little target shooting a very long time ago in the RAF. I do not own or want to own a gun myself but don't mind anyone who does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Hopkin Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 Posted by Peter Miller on 01/01/2015 19:07:26: I have a question. After the Hungerford killings there was a ban on owing automatic weapond=s and pump shot guns. Frgive me if I have not got the categories exactly right, After the Dunlane massacre there was a total ban on the ownership of all handguns. So much so that even our Olympic team had to keep their guns in France and go over there to practice.. (How did all the teams get permission to bring their guns to the Olymics? Oh of course, the great GOD SPort) Now my question is: A similar massacre could easily be committed with a couple of shotguns and a few boxes of cartridges. If that happened does anyone think that there would be even the slightest suggestion of banning shotguns? I will say that I havd no objection to guns myseff and have done a little target shooting a very long time ago in the RAF. I do not own or want to own a gun myself but don't mind anyone who does. The difference between a full barrelled shot gun and handguns or rifles is in the ammunition and rate of fire Shotguns fore a number of pellets, which makes them (at anything other then extremely close range) very inefficient as a killing weapon - handguns and rifles fire a solid round which extends the lethal range considerably. Yes there are solid shot cartridges made for shotguns, but you wont be able to but them, Shotguns are used in the army with solid shot as breaching weapons (forget hollywood shooting the lock out, a a couple of rounds into where the hinges roughly are and your in!) Rate of fire, handguns (even old fashioned revolvers) are capable of fairly rapid fire and most have speed loaders available which again increases thier lethality As for "if it happened" it did happen, the Cumbria Shootings of 2010 where 12 people were killed - I dont recall any calls to ban shotguns following that incident Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codename-John Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 Posted by Pete B - Moderator on 01/01/2015 19:05:21: Looking at your FBI stats link, CJ, you seem to have overlooked the 6220 who were killed with handguns..... and that poor misguided woman sure as heck didn't have an assault rifle or shotgun in her handbag..... Using your source, out of 12664 murder victims, 8583 died as a result of a firearm. You can be as selective as you like to try and prove a point but the fact remains, giving the great unwashed unfettered access to guns can only make things worse. Pete I guess you missed my third paragraph then Pete ? That was a reply to Dave, who singled out "assault" weapons ( don't all weapons assault you in some way or another ? ) which rifles are classed as, and were in the majority used in school shootings he points out, the facts show that hands and fists killed more people than the entire range of assault weapons Dave thinks are so bad. As I did point out lower down 67% of homicides are committed with guns, however I don't see how you can class the entire 320+ Million population of the US as "the great unwashed" and I`m quite sure many of them may object to your description, as obviously the majority of gun owners do take responsibility of their guns properly. When you think of the amount of guns, crime, gangs etc we know are in America by the fact that there were 8583 murders with firearms I`d bet the percentage of legally and properly owned guns that were used to kill is a very small percentage, and some of the victims would have still been killed if the Assailant didn't have a gun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Green Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 Posted by john stones 1 on 23/08/2014 17:55:17: Have a Rant - So what gives you the hump ? Light-hearted threads that suddenly go all serious and heavy... Happy New Year everyone! Edited By Phil Green on 01/01/2015 19:57:48 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cymaz Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 Having a rant..umm. Philips head screws as soft a lard. Over drilling a hole for a push rod in your last servo arm. Cutting closed loop wire 4mm too short. Slipping the screwdriver off the head and straight through the wing covering. Losing a wheel on take off Going to the flying field and leaving the Tx at home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastFlyer Smyth Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 Today I wanted to cook a yorkshire pudding with my roast beef, I checked the cupboard and found I had neither yorkshire pudding mix (which I know is cheating !) or a bag of plain flour. I walked me and the dog 3/4 mile to my local Tesco express only to find they were no longer carrying either item !. The shelves are now filled with foreign items of which I neither know what they are or they are marked in some language which I cannot understand. I know we have to provide for everyone in this modern day multiracial society but come on, No plain flour or yorky pudding mix ? Disgraceful !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cymaz Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 Roast beef and popadoms ? No? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codename-John Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 Or look in the freezer part for ready made ones that take 4 mins to heat up ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastFlyer Smyth Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 A very valid point C-J, but the freezers were full of ice cream and chips. Even if there had been a pack of yorky puds in the freezer I wouldn't have touched them with a barge pole as I try to avoid frozen at all costs. The point is they are not carrying staples anymore.... ah well. back to Asda next week !! Happy new year all !!! Edited By FastFlyer Smyth on 01/01/2015 21:11:31 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Green Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 Posted by cymaz on 01/01/2015 20:05:14: Going to the flying field and leaving the Tx at home. A couple of months back I arrived at Callow Bank, our main soaring site which is over 100 miles round trip for me. Had a quick chat with the lads, checked the wind, went back to the van and - no wings. I'd brought the fusses of four models and no wings - they were still lined up in the hallway at home! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Hopkin Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 Posted by Codename-John on 01/01/2015 19:56:42: Posted by Pete B - Moderator on 01/01/2015 19:05:21: Looking at your FBI stats link, CJ, you seem to have overlooked the 6220 who were killed with handguns..... and that poor misguided woman sure as heck didn't have an assault rifle or shotgun in her handbag..... Using your source, out of 12664 murder victims, 8583 died as a result of a firearm. You can be as selective as you like to try and prove a point but the fact remains, giving the great unwashed unfettered access to guns can only make things worse. Pete I guess you missed my third paragraph then Pete ? That was a reply to Dave, who singled out "assault" weapons ( don't all weapons assault you in some way or another ? ) which rifles are classed as, and were in the majority used in school shootings he points out, the facts show that hands and fists killed more people than the entire range of assault weapons Dave thinks are so bad. As I did point out lower down 67% of homicides are committed with guns, however I don't see how you can class the entire 320+ Million population of the US as "the great unwashed" and I`m quite sure many of them may object to your description, as obviously the majority of gun owners do take responsibility of their guns properly. When you think of the amount of guns, crime, gangs etc we know are in America by the fact that there were 8583 murders with firearms I`d bet the percentage of legally and properly owned guns that were used to kill is a very small percentage, and some of the victims would have still been killed if the Assailant didn't have a gun Hands and fist may kill people BUT they never dont commit mass murder.... But I feel I am talking to someone who firmly believes in the 2nd amendment - I will end my comments on this theme here before it creates bad blood, as one who has seen what modern firearms do to human flesh I find your defence of them in civilian and largely untrained hands abhorent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete B Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 Posted by FastFlyer Smyth on 01/01/2015 21:10:47: The point is they are not carrying staples anymore.... ah well. back to Asda next week !! Have you tried WH Smith? Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daithi O Buitigh Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 The 'right to bear arms' proponents always miss completely the first part of the amendment: "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state". Seeing that the 'National Guard' is the militia and does carry arms, why civilians are permitted is something I fail to understand. There is nothing in that opening part that, to me, says that anyone can run round armed to the teeth. Anyway, I sincerely doubt that the framers of the amendment would accept that should include anyone with the cash to spare can buy fully automatic weapons, including heavy machine guns Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codename-John Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 Posted by Dave Hopkin on 01/01/2015 21:39:06: Hands and fist may kill people BUT they never dont commit mass murder.... But I feel I am talking to someone who firmly believes in the 2nd amendment - I will end my comments on this theme here before it creates bad blood, as one who has seen what modern firearms do to human flesh I find your defence of them in civilian and largely untrained hands abhorent Other things than Guns do commit Mass murder in the wrong hands though, Knives, Axes, Blunt objects, Coolaide, Zyklon B There has been an unfortunate incident in Plymouth today involving an axe and a knife for instance, although not mass murder, there has still been a killing and injuries inflicted on people. If somebody chose to there would be no difference between somebody shooting a group of people or purposely driving a car into a crowd of people for instance, the crime is what should be punished not the inanimate object used. The second amendment means nothing to me, I`m Welsh, my actual personal opinion of America in general is quite low, the fish rots from the head down as they say, when you look at what their government does around the world regarding Death, Guns, Bombs, When you have potential Presidential candidates cheering the execution of people by armed Militias without trial etc then is it any wonder many of the citizens are the way they are ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastFlyer Smyth Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 Posted by Pete B - Moderator on 01/01/2015 21:42:49: Have you tried WH Smith? Pete I couldn't, they wasn't open today Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 Good to see you're still on model aeroplanes "John". BEB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codename-John Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 Posted by Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 01/01/2015 22:25:07: Good to see you're still on model aeroplanes "John". BEB This is the "chit chat" section of the forum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 Taking up residence? BEB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codename-John Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 Nah, i`ve been over on the multi rotor section too, was just popping back to reply to someone, if that's ok with you ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 try "nipping" to few of the other threads - you might find out what the forum is about! BEB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codename-John Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 Posted by Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 01/01/2015 23:08:52: try "nipping" to few of the other threads - you might find out what the forum is about! BEB I`ll nip to whatever interests me at the particular time, thanks for your concern Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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