Flying towards youself

[cymaz]

With landing, the aileron stick under the low wing to prop it up is a given.

The plane is landing from the right and there is a x wind from behind you. The plane will want to drift away from you , l use the rudder the same way as the wind is going ....if you get my meaning.

[Mike Stevens]

Posted by John Bisset on 15/01/2018 21:53:45:

I'd suggest that whenever you use aileron to 'prop up the wing', use a little rudder in the same direction. Always left aileron with left rudder, right aileron with right rudder , since the aircraft doesn't care which way it is facing.

The only times to use rudder independently of aileron are when sideslipping, doing certain aerobatics or when taxying.

Not sure about that as if, coming towards you the left wing drops then you would want opposite rudder to correct. I think Denis has it right. The other point to mention is that if the aircraft is slow on approach then using ailerons could cause it to tip stall. I would be more inclined just to use rudder only to pick up a dropped wing tip so if left wing is down coming towards you, left rudder to pick up what is actually the right wing tip unless i have mis understood the post which I may have

[Glyn44]

Ok help a duffer. What is “prop it up approach” New terminology to me.

[Ernie]

Hi Guys, I find that if I imagine myself in the cockpit, then the problem is solved sort off on a good day

ernie

[Denis Watkins]

Posted by Glyn44 on 16/01/2018 08:05:02:

Ok help a duffer. What is “prop it up approach” New terminology to me.

As the model comes towards you, move the aileron stick towards the dropping wing Glynn

As if propping it up

[Martin Dance 1]

The old flying toward yourself problem is as old as multi channel radio control. Ideally what we should attempt to do as an old flying buddy of mine said is to place yourself in the cockpit so that you are going in the same direction as the model., Very difficult to do but it comes with practice and experience and more practice. The 'prop up the low wing' trick is a way of remembering what to do to remove the banked attitude of a model which is coming toward you. The snag is the explanation is tricky to explain because it uses left and right in confusing ways. So to start with forget about the actual left and right (port and starboard) of the actual model and concentrate on what you are seeing. So, model coming toward you the model is banked to your viewing position to the left, (left wing low from your point of view). The model is actually banked to the right, so the corrective control input is left aileron. How ever from your point of view you are moving the stick to the left, thus propping up the the low wing or putting the stick under the low wing. easier to remember and do when you are relatively new to this flying game.

[Josip Vrandecic -Mes]

When you drive a car, you do not think about the gear box procedure,
because it must be a routine action. It's also the same with RC flying. Someone will fly great, someone good and someone will never reaching this flight skill . Now it's easier, because we have simulators and should use themever so . It's impossible to fly thinking of where to push stick etc. ..Not everything for everyone !

Edited By Josip Vrandecic -Mes on 16/01/2018 09:29:51

[Nigel R]

Lots, and lots, and lots, and lots, of practice.

And I would suggest a simulator. This is what they absolutely excel at. In fact I would say for this a simulator is far better than learning at the field.

You can practice hours and hours of circuits and corrections ad nauseum without any expensive crashes.This also removes the 'fear factor' when you're practicing - which will do wonders for how rapidly you can learn, a nervous pilot will never progress as fast as a relaxed one. Double bubble really, lots of time learning, and learning faster while you do.

There are lots of things simulators are crap at - but this is one of their strong suits.

[Glyn44]

Thanks, obvious now!

[G-JIMG]

Posted by Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 24/10/2014 17:38:16:

Posted by Dave Hopkin on 24/10/2014 16:59:01:

Just think to yourself "left, NO the other left..............."

You may laugh - but I have had actual experience of that! I was instructing a chap, he had only just started learning, so very early days for him. We were just trying to fly and do the turns etc. We get to the end of a run - he's a bit "all over the place" more or less in the middle of the field width. So I say "Turn right".....he starts going left. So I say, "No right".....he turns tighter left. I take control as he is now heading towards the flight line. Sort it out, bring it round and say "Now turn left".....he goes right! And then,....honestly...I found myself saying "No, the other left"!

BEB

I was driving SWMBO to visit friends I had never met before, so was following her directions. When told to take the next turning on the left, I dutifully obliged, only to be instantly berated, "Why the hell have you turned down here?"
"Because you told me to dear"!
"I meant the other left"! (yes ... a turning on the right).

[G-JIMG]

Back on subject.......

Does anyone use Rudder/Aileron mix on the Tx?

[extra slim]

agree with Jos.. if you are thinking, then already you are on "high brain alert" and it is then when mistakes happen. Practice, and at HEIGHT... not enough people play with a plane controls....too scared.. want to read about it all.. ask all questions... doh!!.... when people ask me to show them how to do some aeros, they comment on how I know where the sticks go at what point.... I kinda of do... but practiced high up initially and banged about and watched what the plane did..and alter the input timings and movements to refine..... same with rudder inputs... with enough height, you can bang sticks all over the place and see what happens..... the old man used to get his pupils to put the stick in one of the top corners from level flight (mode 2)... and hold it... YES a barrel roll back to level.... overcame fear of putting down in pretty quick.... only way to learn IMHO.. dont be scared.. or get a buddy system and a friendly helper.. oh and also, one of my bug bears is where in the sky people practice, overhead, downwind.. cross wind etc.. if you are going to practice, there is a "safer" imaginable box in the sky where you should do it, which makes the whole experience less stressful, more likely to succeed and above all safer!!..

fly high ...........until you can fly low, then fly low

[Mark Kettle 1]

Question : Does anyone use Rudder/Aileron mix on the Tx?

Yes G-JIMG, heres an example in this video.

[Denis Watkins]

Posted by G-JIMG on 16/01/2018 10:11:50:

Back on subject.......

Does anyone use Rudder/Aileron mix on the Tx?

Especially on RTF indoor 16 inch warbirds etc

These can be calmed down considerably with CAR

Coupled aileron and rudder

PS your rudder stick still works independently despite the mix

 

Edited By Denis Watkins on 16/01/2018 10:29:04

[Nigel R]

"when people ask me to show them how to do some aeros, they comment on how I know where the sticks go at what point.... "

couldn't agree more with your post extra

practice practice practice until it is second nature

[Pete Collins]

It comes naturally with practice but, a good tip when you're learning is; "When coming towards yourself, put the stick under the low wing!"

[Pete Collins]

Sorry to repeat - Hadn't read all of the preceding thread. On the subject of CAR, it depends on the model. High aspect ratio gliders often need lots of aileron differential plus a bit of coupled rudder. Piper cubs are notorious for dragging their tails in turns and often benefit from CAR. Alternatively some people would say that you just need to learn how to use your left thumb. Being a lazy flyer I usually adopt the former approach.

[Cuban8]

I disagree strongly with the 'put yourself in the cockpit' method - one controls a model from visual cues from the ground, and whilst I suppose you could train yourself to fly a model 'from the cockpit', it seems to me to be a very cumbersome method that relies on translating what's in your mind's eye to the attitude of the model in front of you and then translating that to a stick input, then back to your mind's eye etc .

Same thing with turning your body to face the direction of flight, a bad habit that will slow your progress over the longer term. Learn to fly any model from direct observation by practice and yet more practice - yes, there are several tricks that do help such as the old 'prop up the low wing' and one or two others when you progress a little further.

[Mike Blandford]

Possibly due to having flown full size gliders and power before I flew models, I found the "put yourself in the cockpit" was almost automatic and works really well. If you are "in the cockpit", then you just notice the left wing has dropped and correct it, regardless of which way the model is facing. There is no translation between what you see and the control you need to apply.

Mike.

[John Robertson 3]

"G-JIMG: Back on subject.......

Does anyone use Rudder/Aileron mix on the Tx?"

Yes . . . and . . . No! I have had my old Fleet XP/FM converted to 2.4 (Thanks, Rob @ RCModelGeeks, you did a very nice job). It has a switched in-or-out CAR function which is also variable by a rotary switch and I liked it when I was originally flying in the 80/90s. I have yet to install the Rx in a model, but I DO like fondling the old girl of an evening and clicking the switches on & off. She even has separate switches for bringing up high or low rates on the elevator and ailerons. Ooooooooh!