this hobby needs more young blood

[john melia 1]

when i first opened this post , i didnt mean young young uns , i should have said 20 to 30 year olds , a lot of the clubs i have been in are run by OLD and sometimes GRUMPY men , who seemed to be worried about nothing more than how many are going to attend the next meeting , which to be perfectly honest is mostly a complete waste of time , and normally just trawls over the same old subjects .

These same people are rarely seen at the field , and when they are , they talk club politics behind their windbreaks while sipping hot tea from their flasks . All this is a total put off to the "young uns", these clubs need brought up to date , a committee (for want of a better word) with its finger on the pulse of todays technology , move with the times , embrace the new blood when it does appear , and dont scowl because they can do things in a matter of weeks what some can only dream of .

I've even heard comments such as " an aeroplane should not be flown like that " "its not natural " from a few old club members while watching a guy flying 3D along with the slow shake of their heads

No wonder this hobby is slowly dying , ....... and again i reiterate .... not ALL clubs are like that , and as my opening post says , its what i have experienced , so can only comment on what i've seen first hand

[PatMc]

Posted by john melia 1 on 28/06/2015 23:40:09:

All this is a total put off to the "young uns", these clubs need brought up to date , a committee (for want of a better word) with its finger on the pulse of todays technology , move with the times , embrace the new blood when it does appear , and dont scowl because they can do things in a matter of weeks what some can only dream of .

Why not come & join the Blyth club ?
We're always looking for people to stand for committee posts, you would be voted to whichever position takes your fancy. Then you can show us how a club should be run.

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Yep sounds like you've been bumping heads with committees to me John, so two of the choices/questions are...is some of what they say correct and you may be at fault sometimes or should you get yourself in there and change things ?

John

[john melia 1]

i have no intentions whatsoever of getting involved in petty club politics , theres too much in life to worry about , all i want is to fly , have a laugh , and go home satisfied with my model intact .

[cymaz]

Posted by john melia 1 on 29/06/2015 18:29:26:

i have no intentions whatsoever of getting involved in petty club politics , theres too much in life to worry about , all i want is to fly , have a laugh , and go home satisfied with my model intact .

EXACTLY

[Mark Hancock]

Speaking from someone who has been on the committee ( don't know if I`m one of the grumpy old men you are talking about John?) You will find that when there is an AGM the only people who are prepared to stand are the hard and fast founder members of clubs who don't want things to change. When someone young wants to change things they find it very hard to do so as they are out voted. The older members are the back bone of most clubs also as they join year in year out, were as the younger ones join for one or two years and then move on. Also when club events are arranged you find that yet again its the older ones who turn up as the younger ones have other commitments, are hung over from the night before or the weather is too bad for them.

Lee who was one of our club trainers said a lot of his friends wanted to come and fly till they new the hours and expense that was needed to fly like him. Also he added that he knew after one or two flights who would stay and who would go . If they said on the first flight when will I be able to 3D this trainer ? he knew they would not last .

Then we have those people who most of use can't do with out. (wife's and girlfriends) They come into our live`s and take over,children come along and we know the rest. When they do come back to the hobby a lot of them are turning into grumpy old men themselves and so I goes on.

I don't really have an answer to your question ,may be its just the way things are changing. I also now want to fly for fun and go home .This is just my experience's and opinion's others may disagree.

[john melia 1]

no mark you certainly are not one of the grumpy old men , and i appreciate all the help and advice you have given me over the past year , we'll have to meet up sometime and get a few flights in .

Hows Lee doing Mark ? Has the car , beer , and girlfriend totally taken over now lol ?

Edited By john melia 1 on 29/06/2015 22:38:35

[Erfolg]

What is it that these grumpy old men want to preserve that turns anybody of?

Probably the most contentious issue our club debates, are the club subscriptions.

The AGM might, just might, discuss what can be done to engage our existing members.

Our club is probably pretty boring, no "House of Cards" stuff with us. We must be failing in our duty to conspire to take over the world .

Our rules are simple, with respect to the pecking order of flying. As long as the members doff their caps to the committee members they pass, the committee does allow many of them to speak directly to a committee member in a respectful manner.

The problem with committee members is that you are not allowed to resign, it is a job for life, as no one else is in a rush to do it. Just try suggesting that you would like some one else to take on the role, to keep the club fresh. For some strange reason, people find something very interesting on the floor to stare at. Not only do they become fixated, at the same time , they are struck dumb.

[Craig Carr]

Posted by john melia 1 on 29/06/2015 18:29:26:

i have no intentions whatsoever of getting involved in petty club politics , theres too much in life to worry about , all i want is to fly , have a laugh , and go home satisfied with my model intact .

You've probably missed the point of Pats post John,

If you're not happy with the running of the clubs you've stated your a member of then why not stand for a committee position..?

[Jim Purcha]

I have done the first scenario. Dragging two kids to the model field in the past 10 years since entering the hobby again. My 14 year old daughter tried her hands at flying for a 4-5 flights. She can do it, but just didn't want too. My 10 year old son will probably get his wings tomorrow evening (MAAC - Model Aeronautics Association of Canada), he is currently the youngest member in the club and has been encouraged by the senior members (Dad included). We go on most training nights, but it has been a longer process due to either weather or soccer games/ practices in May and June. I've usually been pitting and helping with some of the instruction. He his also interested in building if I can find him a good enough kit and get him not to worry about getting glue on himself. He prefer's the snap tite model kits to glue and model kits.

Jim

Posted by Owdlad on 19/06/2015 08:06:12:

Here's a scenario that often happens.

• Dad takes enthusiastic young son flying for the first time with the promise of leaning son to fly
• In Dads quest to fly, sons promise becomes secondary and son his left hanging about waiting to fly while dad goes about flying,
• Son is lucky if he gets more than one fly per visit,
• Son eventually becomes bored and drifts away.

What really should happen.

1. Dad takes enthusiastic young son flying for the first time
2. Dads flying takes a back seat and concentrates all his efforts in learning his son to fly
3. Dad learning son to fly increases the bond between them
4. Dad can sit back in the pits and takes enormous pride in watching his son become a proficient pilot
5. Dad can start flying again.

Sadly this very rarely happens.

Owdlad

[Martin Turner 3]

I just posted this on another thread to do with multirotors tests, but it's better here. Sorry for the repeat.

Multirotors and other cheap toys offer the BMFA and RC Clubs an opportunity to connect with youngsters who maybe got something from Maplins for Christmas, and to encourage kids into the hobby in a safe and controlled way. They are easy to fly for starters.

I am losing faith in the BMFA to be honest. I don't think as a whole they are helping our hobby move forward. They are in serious danger of becoming irrelevant over the next 20 years.

There are to many bow tie dinners for the over 60's and not enough FPV drone racing competitions for my liking. They need to get kids off of their computer games and get them interested. Hard I know, but it can be done!

They need to make our hobby more cool. As it stands it appears the hobby will die out with the current generation. You only have to look at our club. I can only think of one member who is less that 20 years old, and i am part of a big club. My kids are not interested.

I can't understand why they constantly talk about free flight or control line flying in their magazine, which is surely a very small part of the hobby and something from a bygone era. That is not going to interest the kids. That magazine should be entirely aimed at kids if you ask me.

I recognise that they have done very good work in the past to promote and protect our hobby, but in my mind they have not kept up with the times. The fact that they have just released multirotor A and B tests which are blatently wrong and unsafe demonstrates this fact.

The current trend of flying boring schedules (which I recognise is very skillful) such as F3a and F3p is not good to watch, and as a spectator sport, to my mind it isn't really. That's a shame as in other sports and hobbies people come along to watch competitions.

How about a competition where you have 20 planes all racing all at the same time or mixed craft where it really dosen't matter what craft you enter, you have to go the fastest through 100m. That would be interesting, and generate some real innovation.

Also - Why is there not a national show?

Sorry for the rant, but if something doesn't change, I think the hobby will die out with the current generation, and then get banned.

[Cuban8]

Hi Martin. I like your posting, as it highlights much of what many established flyers believe is going wrong with the hobby. I don't agree with all your points, but concern about "keeping up with the times" and the rather old fashioned impression the BMFA can sometimes convey of itself, I do go along with.

The whole NFC issue is going to become a 'hot potato' very soon and if nothing else, may act as a catalyst to encourage the upper ranks of the national organistion to listen to the concerns of its members, many whom have expressed their worries on this forum. The members of this forum might be small in numbers, but I think we do have our fingers on the pulse of the hobby and it's good to see senior officers of the BMFA taking part in discussions and perhaps gleaning a view of 'grass roots' opinion that isn't always available to them from other established means.

I like drones and think they are a good way of getting people flying who may not have even considered the notion of flying anything before. Unfortunately, many clubs with their existing facilities are just not set up to cope with an influx of these machines, so it could be felt that clubs are simply anti drone and want nothing to do with them. I don't believe that to be the case.

At North Weald's Wings and Wheels over the weekend, I saw several drone specialists and IIRC an organisation that was encouraging the racing etc of these machines - so there is support out there to have 'droning' move forward and I hope it flourishes.

 

Edited By Cuban8 on 30/06/2015 08:49:02

[Erfolg]

I do see fundamental issues with drones. The principle issue is there is a wide variation in capability function, that devising a simple set of rules within a club may be both difficult and beyond the experience of the membership.

My main problem is why have any rules at all? From my observations of bigger machines is that they are to a large extent autonomous. If for instance a motor starts to fail, what should the machine do automatically and how much can be down to the operator, in essence how much deviation is permissible, then what should be done. There may be other issues.

I have no issues with quads, would we turn them away as a club. No, neither club does. In much of the public mind, quads can have a negative image, although many are flown, away from clubs, in parks etc. by the same group. Will any of these people be attracted to clubs, to date not many.

Why not racing, why not if done safely, no one has wanted to at my clubs.

I do accept aeromodelling is changing and will continue to change, although this is not the problem.

[bouncebounce crunch]

Advertise in regional newspapers (magazine buyers and old dudes know the scene outsiders don't) that competitions for learners, novices, advanced and expert class juniors in specific RC classes.

Maybe, = models and rc equipment under 100 dollars class- 50 pounds

over $100-$200 class to keep the battlers in the game.100 pounds

what type of competitions?

what type of prizes?

What entry fee?

win the learner stage once, step up to novice, win novice twice move up to advance, win advanced twice you move to expert.

Edited By bouncebounce crunch on 30/06/2015 10:41:53

[Andy Symons - BMFA]

Martin you make some interesting points. A few things need challenging though.

There is ONE "Bow Tie" Dinner and it is open to absolutely any member of the society to attend. Whats wrong with celebrating those that have reached the pinnacle of their discipline?

FPV Drone racing is in it's infancy and the BMFA are working very closely and supporting the BFPVRL and we are hoping that there will be some FPV racing at the Nationals this year too. See **LINK** for information on some up and coming racing.

With regards to the magazine, it is a society newsletter first and foremost so news on happenings within the BMFA should be in there. There is a thriving free flight and control line flying community and much of what they do is cutting edge, especially when you consider the materials they use, is there room for improvement in teh magazine? Of course, there's always room for improvement. It should be for all members and not just aimed at kids though.

With regards to the Multi-rotor Achievement scheme tests. They were written by experienced multi-rotor fliers, yes based on the helicopter tests. What has to be remembered is they are a measure of "achievement". They are not unsafe at all but are designed to push the ability of the pilot and passing them represent a real achievement. However the BMFA also recognise that something other than an achievement scheme test is needed and work is ongoing on some profieciency certificates, 1 fixed wing and 1 rotor craft where extra pilot aids will be permitted, there will also be a FPV extension to these too. And before anyone says typical BMFA introducing more tests, this is a result of listening to what people want.

With regards to "the current trend" of flying boring schedules. Model aircraft flying has many varied disciplines all equally valid so if someone wants to fly "boring schedules" or any other discipline for that matter they should be supported. It's about enabling people to take part in whatever activity they want to, no discipline should be derided in such a way.

You ask why is there not a National show? What would you consider a national show to be? Personally something that showcases many of the varied and exciting disciplines in model flying would be my idea of one. I recommend going along to Barkston Heath over the August Bank Holiday weekend.

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Different strokes for different folks Martin, your comments on F3A flying are no different to a negative viewpoint expressed by an F3A pilot directed at multi flyers, in the club i'm at multis and F3A are in a minority and both are welcomed. Why would they not be ? the lads flying multis, fpv attend every time we put a display on and promote their particular interest to the public, if there's enough of them they can organize a club competition day any time they wish. It needs people that fly multis to organize events for them, old lads in bowties no nowt about them do they ?

John

[Erfolg]

It is in the area of aids, where I see many changes taking place. As with many things, I have issues, I am undecided, and recognise that how the world will develop is probably not as i anticipate, that many aspects of the application of aids will not only change, in addition to their capability.

In principle I have no issue with the aids I have seen to date. Some are bordering on and arguably allow some aircraft to be flown, that even a skilled non aided flyer would struggle or be incapable of flying.

If this is to become the norm, do you actually need anything beyond the "A" cert, or even a "A" cert. Could it simply not be a requirement that the model is brought to earth as safely as possible, either by on board safety system or Tx initiated, when needed?

I see the prime usefulness of the "A" test in making modellers aware of both ANO and safe handling.

Non of this prevents or encourages youngsters to want to join a club. The main danger of the development of the increased model capabilities it could encourage the use of inappropriate locations for flying models by youngsters, such as small public parks.

Reflecting on my own youth, I did fly from parks, on waste ground, almost anywhere i thought was suitable, with other youths. My models were mostly small paper bags of tissue and a collection of sticks, or CL that could be flown relatively safely in spaces that could be described as derlict, with no body about or property to damage.

Todays model aircraft as sold by department stores, supermarkets and toy shops, are not small in many cases, have a capability that I could only dream of or be part of a comic strip storey at very low prices. Many youngsters will try and fly these, as i would have outside of a club regime. Will they become modellers as we typically generically describe modellers, within a club?

I guess back in the late 50s and early 60s very few young modellers were in a club. Perhaps it is not surprising that not many today join clubs?

I suspect most new members will be in their 30-40s and then anther group who have retired, say the +55s.

[Mark Hancock]

Yes Lees still flying John, though work ,collage car and girlfriend have put other things in his life at the moment. Also as you well know getting decent weather to fly on a weekend is hard to get up north at the moment .