converting over from nitro, advice plz

[Tom Ling]

Hi guys im thinking of converting over from my 91 2st to electric, the phaff of nitro somtimes and the lack of flying time i get is making me think about going green im aiming to fly a 60 ish size plane electric

the first thing is could anyone recommend a rough system or costs, i cant afford to buy 3/4 £70/80 pounds worth of batteries to have a nice few flights,

are there any systems i can buy at a 60 size as watts and volts are a little confusing,

many thanks for any help. Tom.

[Denis Watkins]

Hi Tom, the lack of flying time affects electric just the same as IC, but I understand the preperation andbreadiness of clean electric, to get into your car. Do not spend until the boys on here advise you, as you can chuck money away rapidly on inappropriate parts.

[Steve Hargreaves - Moderator]

A 60 sized model is going to need some fairly serious sized batteries, motors & ESC so I don't think this will be a particularly cheap conversion Tom.....

Do you have a particular model in mind to convert then we can start looking at some numbers & decide what might be needed. Only then can you see & judge the cost for yourself.

Don't forget you will need a decent charger too.

If you are thinking to set up in electric purely to save money then I'd say, in the short term at least, think again....

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Have a read of these Turnigy motors from Hobby King Tom, it tells you how many cell lipo you'll need and ESC size and props, there are plenty of choices for motors, but this will help you roughly price up.

John

[..]

Flying electic still has a phaff factor Tom as you will have to charge your cells after your session , I fly both and like the fact with ic once I've put a few drops of oil in at the field all I have to do is unload the car rather than watching a charger for hours.

As Steve puts its not going to be a cheap conversion. Also expect some of your Lipo's to fail no matter how well you treat them. This is an expensive loss as there is little you can do to fix them.

Electic flight is certainly cleaner but is far from perfect, it becomes expensive when the smoke escapes too lol.

[Dave Hopkin]

This motor approimates to a 60 Glow **LINK**

To get the power you would need from it you would have to run it on a 6S at least, rather than buy 1 6S, I would advise buying 2 3S and having them in series - a 6S 5000 is £48 2 3S 5000 are £33 plus it allows you to use them as single 3S packs in smaller planes, for a decent session you are looking at 4 flights (?) so that would be 8 x 3S cells plus you'll need a charger, better if you have 2.....

[Terry Foster]

Don't do it, stick to glow, think of the smell,and the sound

[Allan Bennett]

About five years or more ago I converted all my models to electric. I started out with my Magnatilla, which went from OS48FS to AXI2826/12 with 4S LiPo, and then converted .60 and 1.20 size models using AXI4120 on 6S and Hyperion ZS-4045/12 on 12S respectively. In every case the models' performance was the same as or better than when they were glow powered. Take-off runs in particular were noticeably shorter, and I've noticed this too with other club members' electric models.

I started out using good name-brand batteries to get the maximum energy per gramme and long life but, after trashing a couple of them on maiden flights, I realised the best way is to go for cheap HobbyKing batteries which will cause less financial pain if they're damaged.

As others have said, the initial cost of a conversion is not cheap but, for me, I'd much rather spend a little time in the relative warmth of my garage charging batteries than faffing around in a cold, wet field fuelling and trying to start my engine.

By the way, LiPo batteries should be charged before flight, not after. They loose their capability more rapidly if they're stored for any time with a full charge in them.

[..]

I notice from your previous posts Tom that you were asking about engine tuning in December, give it a bit of time ? As like most of us you probably won't have had much time at the field since to refine & properly tune your engine.

You can waste a lot of money & time in this hobby trying to seek an easy way or shortcut to success.

Also looking at your Dago Red P51 as an example some planes will require considerable work to create a battery hatch , either that or you will have to remove the wing each flight and that's not ideal.

I always fully charge my packs at 1c if I'm flying the next day or put them on a storage charge of not , both are a pain & don't fit in with a busy life / family etc. Of course if your only going home to sit back in the garage then it's not a problem.

[Engine Doctor]

Going green ? Glow fuel is probably greener than electric power as methanol comes from vegetable based products.

Electricity has to be generated somewhere and it usually just goes further down the line to a power station ,unless of course it's a sunny ora windy day !

Get to know your engine better they are not difficult to start or maintain and IMHO are a far cheaper option than electric power. You will still have to spend time charging lipos .

Electric does have its advantages . It's cleaner and usually quieter. But definitely not cheaper. I fly some electric ,usually EDF but fly mainly IC . The electric models are usually used when a quick opertunity to fly arrises as batteries keep their charge well . While I agree that kneeling on wet grass starting an engine in winter can be an onerous task it is still cheaper than buying a bucket load of batteries. Don't forget that batteries don't last forever, they do wear out. They also need discharging to storage charge if not used for long periods .

[Tom Ling]

Hi everyone,

Many thanks for all your reply's and info. Right the model I'm looking at buying next in either Ic or electric is this.

it seems good value for money and a nice size, my 91 2st would be lovely. BUT I just cant seem to get them to run reliably, like today, I took me ready 3 out for a flight with a 60 4 stroke, 3 flights no problem then on the last flight on a go around the engine died on the turn and I broke my landing gear with a hard landing. WHY?? In my head if i had electric i wouldnt of had that bad landing, iv seen people get them running perfectly but i dont seem to be able to. I don't had loads on money to throw away on models either, But i fully realise that electric is NOT cheep but my main issue is time, with a couple of little ones and work I put my gear in the work van and go flying after work so the quicker I can get flying the better.

I thought if I spend some money on a good electric set up and then i can buy the same size models with that power set up in mind. But after today i must admit im about ready to give up with this lark lol.

 

thanks Again, Tom.

Edited By Steve Hargreaves - Moderator on 20/02/2016 17:35:43

[Dave Hopkin]

I be wary of that recommended set up for the ESC!

The motor **LINK**

gives a max current on 5S of 60Am Webbies recommend a 60A ESC, I would be looking at an 80A ESC

[Tom Ling]

thanks Dave yes a friend said he would leave that set up alone too, il try ans get it priced up and hopefully it wont be too bad.

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Have a look on Hobby King at SK3 motors Tom, I've quite a few and they've been good and the price is good as well, it also tells you how many cell lipo, esc size and props

John

[Tom Ling]

thanks John will do.

[Dave Hopkin]

Posted by john stones 1 on 19/02/2016 19:48:34:

Have a look on Hobby King at SK3 motors Tom, I've quite a few and they've been good and the price is good as well, it also tells you how many cell lipo, esc size and props

John

This motor seems in the ball park **LINK**

and £35 quid cheaper....

[Steve Hargreaves - Moderator]

If the issue is limited funds & a desire to squeeze a bit of flying in between work & Fatherly duties (Oh how I understand your plight!!) I wonder if going for a smaller, possibly foam, model might be the way forward. You could buy a ready to go foam model for not too much money to dip your toe into the "sparky side" of the hobby with a model that could live in the van with a few cheap batteries. You'd be guaranteed success too....

The Acrowot or Wot 4e take some beating as "fly anywhere" type models or there's the Riot....or many others...

I still think that converting a 60 plus sized model will nit be cheap, especially as you need to buy a charger etc. & as others have pointed out batteries don't last forever & will need replacing...

Good luck with whatever you decide....

[Maurice Harvey]

Hi Tom, I have been electric for the last ten years,for the same reason you want to change. Steve has the right thoughts on going electric. It can turn out to be very expensive if you go over a 40-46 size. Batteries are the problem, charging them the night before, rain on fly day, discharge to store etc. The need to have at least four of them if you want a decent flying session. Also remember if you are into aerobatics your flight times will be reduced. Expect a life span of no more than fifty charges, if you are lucky, before a rogue cell shows up. Do not spend mega-bucks on them as they will all die on you just by sitting on the shelve. Sounds all gloom I know, but at least you have a clean model to pop back into the car. Far, far better to buy something like a H.H. Meridian with a 10cc PETROL engine. My amigo here in Spain has one and I envy him every time he flies it. The time is coming when I will say I've had enough of batteries but I do enjoy flying electric!

Edited By Pete B - Moderator on 20/02/2016 21:24:28

[Dave Hopkin]

Sorry Maurice,

But I dont recognise that pattern of battery life.....

Firstly you don't need to discharge a fully charged Lipo down to storage voltage unless you are laying it up for several weeks/months - they will happily keep a full charge for a month without doing any harm (that reduces the number of charge cycles you are subjecting the battery too)

Secondly you only get 50 cycles out of your Lipos? I reckon on at least 150-200 if they are looked after and not stressed out in flight, that applies to both how far you discharge them in voltage terms (I try not to go below 3.5v per cell and also how much current you are pulling in comparison to the C rating of the battery

I always balance charge mine - I never use normal charge mode and never go above 1C charge rate

[PeterF]

Posted by Engine Doctor on 19/02/2016 10:24:05:

Going green ? Glow fuel is probably greener than electric power as methanol comes from vegetable based products.

Methanol MAY be made from vegetable based products, after all it is also known as wood alcohol, but it is very rarely made that way.

The vast majority of the world's methanol is made in huge petrochemical plants, I know I design them and have worked on many methanol plants around the world. The last plants I worked on were huge, one made 3,500 tonnes per day of methanol and the other 5,500.

The first stage in making methanol is to take natural gas, mix it with steam, heat it to 900 centigrade and 300 psi in a large furnace like a power station boiler to crack the natural gas to carbon oxides and hydrogen.

CH4 + H2O = CO + 3 H2

Then you compress the carbon oxides and hydrogen to 1200 psi and react them to form methanol.

CO + 2 H2 = CH3OH

Some of you will have noted that between the two reactions there is a spare hydrogen molecule which is burnt as fuel in the furnace. Attached are a couple of photos of the furnace (steam reformer) in a large methanol plant, and that only shows 2 out of the 14 rows of tubes along with a photo of a methanol plant.

[iqon]

dont do it.....

[Maurice Harvey]

Hello Dave H. Please post make of batteries you use. I need to know. For the record I balance charge at 1c, never discharge below 3.6v and still they die. Possibly due to high internal resistance build-up but NOT my misuse.

[Trevor Crook]

Tom, as someone who did this some years ago, I would concur with the advice given above about considering something a bit smaller to reduce your outlay - you may not get on with electric, although most people do, and I have never been tempted back to IC.

The Thunderbolt you are looking at suggests you are an experienced flyer who likes American warbirds. Can I suggest an FMS P51? These are 1440mm span foamies, which look really good, fly well and come with all the tricky stuff done for you - fully sequenced retracts are pre-installed, as of course is a suitable esc and motor. TJD Models are currently selling the latest version (V8) for £229. Suitable 3300 4s 30C Turnigy batteries can be had for about £20 each from Hobbyking, who can also supply a "Reaktor" 250W charger for £37.

None of this may "float your boat", just a suggestion for a cheaper/easier route to electric warbird fun.

[Dave Hopkin]

Posted by Maurice Harvey on 22/02/2016 21:29:32:

Hello Dave H. Please post make of batteries you use. I need to know. For the record I balance charge at 1c, never discharge below 3.6v and still they die. Possibly due to high internal resistance build-up but NOT my misuse.

I use cheapo Turnigy Lipos from HK I have a collection of 3S 2200 and 4000 (30C) - 4S 4000 and 5000 (30C) and 5S 5000 some going back 3 years

Only ever had 2 Lipo's fail - one a Zippy type died in mid flight after about 2 mins (when the normal flight time was 8 mins) due to a cell collapse - the other was entirely my fault when my charger timed out with the lipo less than fully charged - Idiot here decided a few more mins would be ok, it wasnt!!!! thankfully when it started crackling and popping it was chucked out onto the concrete outside; 10 mins later it erupted - still not confessed to the wife that her rose bush caught the full force and that is probably wasnt some dread disease that killed it

I take mine down to around 3.2v on average and always balance charge

[Tom Ling]

Hi everyone, sorry for the delayed reply, thanks for all the comments and cracking advice. I took the plunge and brought an Acro wot foam e, batteries and charger, after reading the comments (thanks Steve,) I LOVE it, its brilliant, I can pop it in the work van and within 5 mins of getting to the club I'm flying and with 5 batteries I get the same flights in and back to the family, very chuffed with it.

Thanks for the FMS models tip they look good, I must admit that the price of converting a bigger model vs the foam models with half if not most of the work already done is very very tempting. Does seem a lot of out lay just to not have a foam model, and if they are like some of the wrecked wot 4s at my club they can take a knock it would appear. I must of admit I was against foam planes but I have got 360 on that.

Hopefully many more electric updates too come