David Soper Posted April 3, 2016 Share Posted April 3, 2016 I took my second flight today.. first flight i was silly and thought i could fly on my own.. i ommited to reverse Aux 1 (SAFE ) so i was in panic mode from take off... i lost the model. Undeterred i tried again, this time with a club member to guide me . He did a bit of mixing on the aileron to rudder control that made it a little more stable. He thought the model was also a bit nose light What concerns me most is that the model is so light...flying into wind with full or zero throttle, the model just will not stall... it just hangs in the air, that all fine and dandy but i lost my first model as with zero throttle and no down elevator it just drifted untill i lost it. So either i fly in zero wind or i add some weight to the nose, or as was suggested maybe put slightly bigger/heavier battery in (assuming i find one that fits) The club member said it flies ok, but watching it fly it seemed more like a kite than a model rc plane! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kim Taylor Posted April 4, 2016 Share Posted April 4, 2016 I'm having similar issues, if the wind is strong (which it always seems to be at our club field). I find that keeping some power on and basically pushing it down is the only way it'll land. They do fly really well, but in a strong wind they are more than a bit floaty and very prone to balooning upwards when turning in to wind (when used with the 'safe' setting to minimum). Mine was particularly flighty yesterday in a 15mph crosswind!! I've just ordered a 'normal' receiver to put in mine to see if that makes it any better, or whether the only answer is to replace it with a heavier (wood) model or just accept it's a bit of a shambles in the wind. Must also point out that I'm by no means an expert pilot, so take any / all of the above with caution. Kim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin 216 Posted April 4, 2016 Share Posted April 4, 2016 Hi Kim, I fitted a standard receiver (AR400) in my Apprentice about a year ago as I was not happy with the standard receiver's performance in the most experienced mode. I was out yesterday and the wind was high, however the Apprentice performed reasonably well, it did get pushed around a little but in these conditions it helps to trim in some 'down' to enable it to penetrate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kim Taylor Posted April 4, 2016 Share Posted April 4, 2016 Hi Kevin. I've got an AR610 coming from SMC as they've got them on offer for £25 at the moment. I figured it would be better for when can afford to upgrade my transmitter. Hopefully try it out this weekend if the weather plays ball. I'm also going to switch the 'expo' on and give it a try - I'll report back with my findings. Kim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Soper Posted April 6, 2016 Author Share Posted April 6, 2016 I bottled it today was keen to fly.. wind seemed ok at home, felt like met web site.. 8-10 mph. got to field and felt more like 15 gusting 25! That extra 5mph seems scary As beginner with a very floaty apprentice i decided not to risk it... a coward but live to try another day.... Only thing that bugs me is i charge up ready to fly, come home with still fully charged battery(s) and knowing that i wont fly for maybe a week, my charger will only discharge at 1amp. (3 cell 3200mAh batteries) from 100% full charge to 50% storage charge is taking well over an hour. Can i restrain the model, run motor for roughly 5 mins @ 50% throttle and get down to storage voltage quicker? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted April 6, 2016 Share Posted April 6, 2016 Doing what's sensible isn't bottling it David, frustrating when you're keen to fly though, I don't see why you cant run lipo down a bit just make sure the motor/esc don't get hot though. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max50 Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 It's good being sensible, but waiting for 0 wind can be too cautious. I remember when I started flying in my club, I always used to wait for a perfect day, but the trouble was, i only flew 4 times in a year. After 4 years I retired, and said this is silly I'll never learn, so I started flying every time with my instructor, and passed my A the following year. You've just got to go and fly, the instructors their to help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Soper Posted April 7, 2016 Author Share Posted April 7, 2016 Does anyone think adding a little extra weight would make the model less floaty in 10mph winds (I would not fly in anything over 10mph while learning) I handed the model to an experienced flyer... and from where i was standing it seemed he was battling to keep it straight and level, the landing was nothing like i have practiced numerous times on my flight sim, the model did not glide to a nice controlled landing, it kind of made it to the landing strip, then hovered a bit before flopping down all be it in one piece. Im sure this is a great model to learn on, but i want a model that goes where i send it, not where air currents dictate where it goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onetenor Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 Yes add some "BALLAST" at the CoG Make up a dummy as per a PAA loader model.That is a tall narrow box you can add shot or sand or weight of choice. .They usually have a neck and shoulders . It sits in the fuse and is retained between a couple of strips of balsa glued to the fuse sides. It can be slid out /in as required. Have a look on Google for info about PAA load /Payload Used to be good fun in 50 s 60 s. Some very interesting models in those days.I don't know if they still run those comps.Anyway that is one solution for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Davis Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 Another solution would be to buy a heavier balsa and ply trainer like the Boomerang. These models may be powered by either i/c or electric motors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Hopkin Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 If you are looking for a trainer with bit more weight then have a look at the E-Pioneer by Seagull nice stable platform very much like the Boomerang, but specifically for electric, with the right motor you can also use the batteriers from the Apprentice in it too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Davis Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 Yes the E-Pioneer is another good choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denis Watkins Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 Just a thought, the official weather reports of calm in the UK amount to at best 5 days per yer year. Up to 10 mph wind covers about half the year, so start thinking of something heavier to keep upyour progress Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Soper Posted April 8, 2016 Author Share Posted April 8, 2016 First solo flight this evening .. perfect flying conditions, big thank you to Nick who was willing to hold my hand if needed. We are small club...South Beds Model flying Club, the guys i have met are so helpful. I still think i will add some weight , but need to keep CG. The motor has bags of power as my guardian angel kept saying ... less throttle! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Soper Posted April 8, 2016 Author Share Posted April 8, 2016 An observation from a novice... the panic switch that is also the bind switch is not in the best place, given the natural hand grip, and thumbs to sticks... the first finger has to reach to find the panic switch...easy if you look at tx.. but when flustered and staring at model i think panic button should be close to left thumb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kim Taylor Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 My advice for what it's worth would be to forget about the panic switch and develop your own reactions to get you out of unusual situations, Particularly if you're being 'buddied', it's best not to assume there's a 'get out of jail free' button - your next 'plane won't have it!! I'm hoping to get out with my Apprentice over the weekend, now fitted with a non SAFE receiver, although looking at the weather forecast for the south coast, I'm not optomistic. I've flown mine in anything between 10 - 25+ mph winds, and although it will handle it, it's not pretty, I'm hoping that with the conventional receiver, and plenty of simulator time, I'll be able to use the Apprentice long enough to convert to an Acro Wot or Calmato, without the need for a 'conventional' trainer as well. For it's purpose, it's a good 'plane, but it does have limitations, as do (I guess) most 'foamies'. Kim Edited By Kim Taylor on 09/04/2016 00:00:41 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted April 9, 2016 Share Posted April 9, 2016 I think you have to accept that the Apprentice is what it is - a light model best suited to very calm conditions. I know that is not very helpful -but its honest! I feel for people who buy these models - they are not really the best choice for typical UK conditions. Hence the advice from many above to invest in something that will cope better with the conditions we typically get here. I'm not saying you can never fly the Apprentice - but it will behave like a kite on any day with even a moderate wind! You ask about adding weight. Yes you can do this, but bear in mind that, to make a significant difference, you are going to have to add quite a substantial about of extra weight and that will have two consequences beyond just making the model penetrate better in the wind: 1. It will fly a lot faster - it will have no choice as it has more weight to lft with the same wing, the only solution is more airspeed. You may not be comfortable at this higher speed - things will happen much faster! 2. The wing loading will increase and this will have a dterimental affect on the model's general agility and manoeurvrability. Just some thoughts. Personally - I think you would do well to consider a heaver, larger, model. Those suggested are all good - Boomerang, E-Pioneer etc. You will get more flying and the flying you get will be better qiality. BEB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Soper Posted April 9, 2016 Author Share Posted April 9, 2016 Ty for all you help and input... maybe i just plunged for the wrong model... tonight it flew well, but with little wind. Flying is a steep learning curve, and maybe this is one curve i did not anticipate, i know another time with wind its going to be a bitch and bite me! Edited By Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 09/04/2016 11:12:07 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Davis Posted April 9, 2016 Share Posted April 9, 2016 Before I retired to France I was a member of the Shropshire Model Flying Club. We had three club trainers which novices could use, one was the E-Flite Apprentice. I used to like to fly it but agree with all of the other posters that a beginner would find it hard to fly in a wind. It's a cliche but learning to fly an r/c model aircraft is a bit like learning to ride a bike. On those first few flights you have to think about what you're doing and then react. If the model is being blown all over the place, you may not have the time and you will find yourself "chasing" the model until gravity takes over. If you have a heavier model like those suggested above it will be less affected by gusts of wind and you will be able to fly it in a breeze. Once you've managed to fly your heavier trainer successfully, you will find that the Apprentice is a delight to fly in appropriate wind conditions. I learned to fly in 1988 but still prefer to fly on a "Double Ten Day," when the wind speed is less than 10 mph and the temperature is above 10 degrees Centigrade! When I imported the Telemasters and exhibited them at the shows, I could not choose the weather and had to learn how to fly in a wind but by that stage I was already an experienced pilot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Soper Posted April 10, 2016 Author Share Posted April 10, 2016 An experienced flyer could fly my model one handed... drinking coffee chatting to his mate... as a beginner im gripping tx and using thumbs on sticks and fixated on the model.... why do they put spikes on the sticks! It hurts after 5 mins lol I noticed the experienced guy was using two finger grip on the sticks... i guess everyone has there own preference?. Flew today in some light wind... with someone holding my hand, i learnt keeping model down wind a bit was easier then going to far upwind and fighting to get the dam thing down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted April 10, 2016 Share Posted April 10, 2016 Hi David, yes the world is divided into "thumbs people" and "two digit pincher people"! Personally I'm a two fingers man myself - but one of the best pilots I know is a thumbs person! So yes, it really is a case of what suits you. Both have their advantages, and both their disadvantages the best advice is to simply try it out both ways and go with what feels right to you. Note that most "two finger" flyers will not normally support the Tx themselselves - they will tend to use a neck strap or a even a "tray". Whereas most thumbs flyers will hold the Tx in their hands. That's a bit of a generalisation and you will find individuals that break the ruke! But its a guide to bear in mind. BEB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Soper Posted April 10, 2016 Author Share Posted April 10, 2016 I think as i get more experienced i will hopefully relax more and not have so much nervous pressure on thumbs! Its like a learner golfer gripping club too hard lol... no neck strap yet for me ... i need to be able to throw tx at someone while shouting help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Soper Posted April 12, 2016 Author Share Posted April 12, 2016 What a weird day... went to field after work at 3pm.. light wind sunny skies... flying third solo flight, all ok.. then 5 mins after landing bang... sky went dark... 10 mins later 25 mph wind and rain... we all dived to cars unreal!. At 6pm it was all silent... decided to go back to field... no one there... first time i experienced dead calm.. i learnt a lot ..flying with rudder only then adding aileron, then just playing about... my confidence was boosted 100% by going back to field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Soper Posted June 23, 2016 Author Share Posted June 23, 2016 Hi I have been flying the Apprentice 15e for a few months, my guiding hand at the field thinks i am advancing well, I am able to fly in moderate winds with SAFE disabled ie in experianced mode. He asked me if i could disable AS3x so he can see my reaction to wind gusts... we can hear the servos constantly working when AS3x is enabled. Can the reciever in the E Flight Apprentice be programmed to disable the gyros? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin 216 Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 Hello David, I never found a way of totally switching off the stabilization system in the end I removed the Rx and fitted a bog standard AR400. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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