Is traditional building a disappearing art?

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

No it's not, whist there's the wood and glue available people will do it because they enjoy it. Many built in days gone by because they had no other choice...some didn't even enjoy it

Time ? folk have always worked and brought families up, no change there.

Lack of skill amongst the younger generation ? No they're as capable as we ever where.

More choice and there's some good stuff available for less than we could build it for. Would some of us have built in days gone by, if we didn't have to ? I don't think so

John

[ChrisB]

Posted by bouncebounce crunch on 14/04/2017 05:51:55:

I reckon club environment and available spending is hindering traditional builds. The club can be restrictive and confrontational at times, far from when a couple of mates built a model each and met at the field/schoolyard/golf course to test them. Teenagers and their models and really enjoying the moment .Now it seems to be grumpy old men wanting bigger and better than their nemesis or finding anything to gripe about. we are killing ourselves and the hobby.

a flat surface a few cheap cutting sanding and measuring tools is all you need to produce a nice flyable model. Powered Bandsaws, scroll saws, sanders and the like can make it easier but not better. Tim the toolman in my club could not build a flyable example even with all his money. back to basics is how we can pass on our great hobby.

I'm not sure I agree that clubs are hindering non ARTF models. Surely clubs are just the place where is should thrive? In my club there are probably a handful of us who build from kits, plans etc. Most of us try and pass on advice to others to help them understand how models are built and encourage them to build basic kits etc to start off with.

In recent times we've seen a few new, novice members who know more than those who've been flying and building for 20 years and there's nothing you can tell them that they don't already know and speak with great authority on. They tend to be the ones who disappear after a year or two, once they have exhausted all their knowledge and experience in crashing and failing to rebuild their ARTF models.

[bouncebounce crunch]

Chris B you have a few valid points there too. I wish my club scene was a breeding ground for builders. I don't expect every pilot to be a builder but I had expectations that a few would build a model or two every couple of years. my club of twenty, over the last year 3 are now or have been building from a kit and three from a plan which isn't too bad when you look at it that way. but the regulars are down to 3 that churn out one model per year.

[ChrisB]

That's not a bad ratio BBC. 3 out of 20. I think we've probably got about 12 out of 85 which is broadly the same.

As Pete Willbourn says there are builders, many who are superb craftsmen and then there are flyers and some who are a bit of both, probably the majority.

[ChrisB]

Posted by Pete Willbourn on 13/04/2017 14:39:12:

Chris B knows who I am talking about , We have a scratch builder in our club , yes he is of the older generation , but I rate him as one of the best ,museum quality detail !

He takes his time , about 3 years to finish a model , But the problem is that when covered you cannot see the workmanship. He like some others mentioned here get someone else to test fly his creations , a very nerve wracking time then he flies them once or twice and then actually gives them away !

So he belongs to the builders side but he does fly , but mainly the older Cocklebarrow type aircraft which need a true "oldie" to be able to trim them .!

I have put some of his models on the forum from time to time , so far without comment , so I presume 90% of the membership are flyers rather that builders !

personally I like getting a broken up ARTF and rebuilding /repairing it , its quicker than finishing my Stampe , Tiger Moth , Snipe , and the couple of conliners for my son !!

cheers

I do hope the chap in question is still building his fine creations. His paintings are equally fine masterpieces!

I remember a story he was telling me about going to an event where the rivet counters thought his modified WOT4 was something else!

[Mike T]

All the guys we've had join our Club in the last few years have started out with ARTF foamies. Three of those are now building all sorts of stuff, from indoor flyers using the electrics from the Bind'n fly kit, all the way up to 3M span PSS Learjets.

If you decide the hobby is for you, it seems some people do tire of the sameness of ARTFs and want something more personal. The key is that foam got them flying successfully, so they have the confidence to invest in their own constructions with the promise of (more or less) guaranteed success.

[eflightray]

Traditional building ?, I know what you mean.

You can't seem to find many blacksmiths these days either, what's happening to the world ?.

Perhaps it could be that some people are living too far in the past, especially in the UK.

A well known American based model forum is growing from strength to strength, even with new forum groups popping up.

Loads of builder there, probably loads of builders here, just not always balsa and IC powered, or want to show and tell in a forum. The world has moved on.

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Posted by eflightray on 14/04/2017 18:53:56:

Traditional building ?, I know what you mean.

You can't seem to find many blacksmiths these days either, what's happening to the world ?.

Perhaps it could be that some people are living too far in the past, especially in the UK.

A well known American based model forum is growing from strength to strength, even with new forum groups popping up.

Loads of builder there, probably loads of builders here, just not always balsa and IC powered, or want to show and tell in a forum. The world has moved on.

Blacksmith here Ray....you need a model shoeing

John

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Pete H]

Building for me is a more interesting part of this hobby than the flying, and I enjoy the flying. I find it makes model flying a much richer and more rewarding experience.

For instance, with an ARTF model the input is limited to fitting a few servos and power plant. very quick but doesn't fire the imagination in any way. You then take it to the field and it looks exactly the same as the plane next to it. That first flight, when the plane takes off and flies well or not, there was very little that you could have done or changed to influence how the model flies.

However with a plan, kit or own design build there are many opportunities to tailor the build to suit your own preferences. The level of detail, the weight, the servo locations, ailerons, flaps, spoilers, all these changes could have a positive or negative effect on both the appearance of the model and that all important first flight. The time spent building and thinking about the build and the problems it presents help build a bond with the plane. The first time you take it to the field knowing that the plane is unique; the questions from club mates; the skills gained. All adds to the anticipation, drama and ultimately sense of achievement from that first flight that I feel is lacking in the ARTF experience.

One does not need to have a huge arsenal of tools or building space. My first plan built plane, complete with built up wings seemed impossible at the time. However with a scalpel, razor saw, a covering iron and some mistakes. I built a perfectly respectable Thomas Morse S-4C Scout bi-plane on the kitchen table. I did a build blog at the time here.

[eflightray]

Posted by Tom Sharp 2 on 14/04/2017 19:41:40:

Strange that, just yesterday I saw a blacksmiths van from Manchester Airport of all places. The Mind Boggles.

Probably for Ryanair

[Jonathan M]

Posted by Pete H on 14/04/2017 20:58:52:

Building for me is a more interesting part of this hobby than the flying, and I enjoy the flying. I find it makes model flying a much richer and more rewarding experience.

For instance, with an ARTF model the input is limited to fitting a few servos and power plant. very quick but doesn't fire the imagination in any way. You then take it to the field and it looks exactly the same as the plane next to it. That first flight, when the plane takes off and flies well or not, there was very little that you could have done or changed to influence how the model flies.

However with a plan, kit or own design build there are many opportunities to tailor the build to suit your own preferences. The level of detail, the weight, the servo locations, ailerons, flaps, spoilers, all these changes could have a positive or negative effect on both the appearance of the model and that all important first flight. The time spent building and thinking about the build and the problems it presents help build a bond with the plane. The first time you take it to the field knowing that the plane is unique; the questions from club mates; the skills gained. All adds to the anticipation, drama and ultimately sense of achievement from that first flight that I feel is lacking in the ARTF experience.

One does not need to have a huge arsenal of tools or building space. My first plan built plane, complete with built up wings seemed impossible at the time. However with a scalpel, razor saw, a covering iron and some mistakes. I built a perfectly respectable Thomas Morse S-4C Scout bi-plane on the kitchen table. I did a build blog at the time here.

Very well expressed.

How long would one have to fly a model one built oneself to equal the time spent making it?

A wild guess of, say, 100hrs making (2.5 weeks full-time work) would equate to 600 ten-minute flights!!

[Phil 9]

there is not much more disappointing than to build a model to find out you just don't like the way it fly's or even worse you crash it within the first few flights

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Josip Vrandecic -Mes]

It is difficult and thankless task of forming strong opinions about what is for some people interesting, pleasant or as an encouraging adrenaline.
I never understood gambling, betting, hunting, bullfighting but personally I have no problem to accept it as a fact and that such persons do not feel inferior in any way.
And personally I like and I fly models by foam (I passed all stages in the modeling, except that I was not a pro) , of all categories, and today I am very happy that I can get it relatively quickly-cheaply RTF over Internet.

Note: Some beautiful crafts are disappearing today ... such as new time ..and life is not always fair....is it ever ?!

Thanks for your time.

[Shane Sunday]

Funny how time has been mentioned so many times here. Time is one of those things that is fleeting and so hard to grab onto or get back. While building does require time and an ARTF model requires only a little I think it comes down to time. Building from a wood pack and a plan does take more time and effort which many of us today have little of but still wish to own and fly fantastic models. I love building and nothing gives me greater pleasure than to fly a model I built from sticks or sheets of foam. I've built and crashed some wonderful ARFS but felt more grief for the time spent scratch builds I've lost. I don't think trad building is finished but I do believe we need to pass the torch to the younger generation. And to finish my thought on time... if you do one thing every day no matter how small, eventually the model will get done.

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[bouncebounce crunch]

After many hours contemplation. traditional building is dead.

no garden of Eden in my town.

no Arks.

plenty of burnt bridges though

[Don Fry]

Posted by Phil 9 on 14/04/2017 21:37:36:

there is not much more disappointing than to build a model to find out you just don't like the way it fly's or even worse you crash it within the first few flights

But character building.

[cymaz]

Posted by Donald Fry on 15/04/2017 06:04:10:

Posted by Phil 9 on 14/04/2017 21:37:36:

there is not much more disappointing than to build a model to find out you just don't like the way it fly's or even worse you crash it within the first few flights

But character building.

A my late dad used to say, "character building " but always added...."or soul destroying "

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Peter Miller]

Posted by Phil 9 on 14/04/2017 21:37:36:

there is not much more disappointing than to build a model to find out you just don't like the way it fly's or even worse you crash it within the first few flights

Personally I have had some models that took ages but were dismal failures BUT I never considered that a waste of time. I enjoyed the designing and building and I always learned something from it. The same with models that didn't fly as nicely as I would have liked.

Or not at all

On the other hand some models turn out to be a real joy to fly and that just adds to it all.

But then, just ocasionally I get the urge to produce a model that is a real challenge to design and build and when that works well what a bonus.

And some times there is just the pleasure of creating something that just looks good and proves to ones self that one can do really good work.

As for building and space. Well I have build models on the back of an RAF tall locker and even on the top of a small locker in a barrack room. and on a dressing table in an hotel bedroom So don't tell me that you can't do it

Edited By Peter Miller on 15/04/2017 08:57:13

[Phil 9]

if any fancies a bargain price short kit I am selling via the classifieds a cloud dancer 120 short kit. I really wont ever get around to building this one **LINK**

[..]

I don't think its disappearing but with alternatives on offer now that never were it's never going to be as popular. The biggest thing and as previously stated in the thread is that many people like to make things and I can't see that changing.

It is an oddity that unlike many things it's far cheaper to buy an almost ready made model than buy all the raw materials and do it yourself.

Personally I think the time available thing is a big part in today's society, just look at how long we spend on places like this for a start.

I've tried & sadly failed due to time and space issues but I look forward to building a "Proper aeroplane" as a fellow local flyer and nostalgia notebook scribe put it to me.

Long live balsa bashing.

[Cuban8]

Building is far from a dead or a lost art, certainly in the modelling circles that I inhabit across two clubs. True, more flyers either go ARTF or buy second hand, but there is still a very active cadre of people who build from O/D, plans, or kits as far as I can see. The only worrying thing, is that those builders tend to be at the senior end of the scale with only very few younger people (under 45) taking up the scalpel, sandpaper and glue.

Bit of a chicken and egg situation, I suppose - without suitable kits (Flair, are you listening?) we won't get people building, and without builders, where will the kit companies' customers come from?