Tim Kearsley Posted November 14, 2023 Share Posted November 14, 2023 1 minute ago, Ron Gray said: It doesn't, all it is telling me is that there is a low rate time slot during which it can charge the EV, it doesn't mean that it needs the 20 hours. OK Ron, thank you. I assumed that when you told the app how much you want and when you want it by that it calculated how long that would take (plus some headroom) and allocated slots to fulfil that. The learning curve is quite steep! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Gray Posted November 14, 2023 Share Posted November 14, 2023 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Tim Kearsley said: The learning curve is quite steep! I must admit that it can take a bit to get your head around it. In the end I just let it do its thing then it became a bit clearer! But I must admit that I just love the way that the systems 'talk' to each other, Octopus to MyEnergi (Zappi) and Bluelink (Hyundai Ioniq5). Just waiting on my HomeAssistant Green to arrive! Edited November 14, 2023 by Ron Gray Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Kearsley Posted November 14, 2023 Share Posted November 14, 2023 I've been posting on the Tesla Motors Club forum this morning with the same question about how time slots outside the 6 hour window are charged and a guy has posted up his itemised bill showing that they simply apply the 7.5p rate for each 30-minute slot regardless of how that energy is used. I think the Octopus Customer Support chap that answered you Ron has provided false information. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Gray Posted November 14, 2023 Share Posted November 14, 2023 3 minutes ago, Tim Kearsley said: I think the Octopus Customer Support chap that answered you Ron has provided false information. I'm hoping so Tim as before I got his reply I was using quite a bit of leccy drying out part of my cottage which had got flooded in the recent storms! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Skilbeck Posted November 14, 2023 Share Posted November 14, 2023 5 minutes ago, Tim Kearsley said: I've been posting on the Tesla Motors Club forum this morning with the same question about how time slots outside the 6 hour window are charged and a guy has posted up his itemised bill showing that they simply apply the 7.5p rate for each 30-minute slot regardless of how that energy is used. I think the Octopus Customer Support chap that answered you Ron has provided false information. Yep, just looked at my bill and all the electric supplied while car was charging is at the low rate, note we aren't big users though and typically only gain 1-2 kwh by charging at 5pm. Not sure if there is a limit which kicks in if Octopus suspect you are gaming the system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Engine Doctor Posted November 14, 2023 Share Posted November 14, 2023 1 hour ago, Frank Skilbeck said: BTW since getting our Mini I haven't put any fuel in my ICE estate since end of August, my wife now refers to this as the aeroplane car...... Dont forget that petrol contains ethanol and WILL absorb moisture from the air . The longer its left the more it absorbs and eventually you will have water at the bottom of the tank causing poor running and corrosion to any vulnerable parts in the fuel system . Obviously if its a diesel this doesnt apply although even diesel fuel can go off if left for long periods in cars as bacteria can grow blocking the fuel way and especially the fuel filter. Take it for a run and use the fuel . If left standing again replace fuel with shell V Power or BP / Esso Equivalent as this apparrently doesnt contain ethanol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDD15 Posted November 14, 2023 Share Posted November 14, 2023 Hmmm I rather suspect that Ron was quoted by Octopus was how it is planned to work, so there could be changes ahead. To be fair they do say that some of these rates are experimental or in beta test. idd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Skilbeck Posted November 14, 2023 Share Posted November 14, 2023 7 minutes ago, Engine Doctor said: Dont forget that petrol contains ethanol and WILL absorb moisture from the air . The longer its left the more it absorbs and eventually you will have water at the bottom of the tank causing poor running and corrosion to any vulnerable parts in the fuel system . Obviously if its a diesel this doesnt apply although even diesel fuel can go off if left for long periods in cars as bacteria can grow blocking the fuel way and especially the fuel filter. Take it for a run and use the fuel . If left standing again replace fuel with shell V Power or BP / Esso Equivalent as this apparrently doesnt contain ethanol. Oh it is being used, has done 400 miles in last 3 moths and is due for a top up as off to NEC next week and will be 3 up, bit cramped in the Mini, but when we had 2 ICE cars we were filling them both up every 5 weeks. So I've saved at least 4 refuelling trips, can't avoid it completely as have to for fuel for the club mower, irony was last time local garage had pumps out and a queue for the remaining pump so I had to do a detour to another garage! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Gray Posted November 14, 2023 Share Posted November 14, 2023 1 hour ago, Frank Skilbeck said: all the electric supplied while car was charging is at the low rate But what happens when the car has finished charging (during the schedule low rate periods, not overnight)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Skilbeck Posted November 14, 2023 Share Posted November 14, 2023 Ron I'm using the Ohme app, so I only get a notification when it's plugged in and it only covers the charging period. I've set the Ohme to 80% which is my target as the car tells the Ohme how much charge it has and it calculates the charging period on that. Once it's finished charging on the next halfhour it reverts to normal rate. So I guess if you've set your car to stop at 80% your car/charger will tell Octopus you are finished and the low rate will stop, but would be interested as to how it works with your set up where you've set a higher target on the charger than the car. Note I don't think I can set a limit in the Mini. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Manuel Posted November 14, 2023 Share Posted November 14, 2023 I've been on Intelligent Octopus for a few months now. I can confirm that whenever your car is charging, any electricity used by the house will be at cheap rate. When the car stops charging, it reverts to full rate at the end of the current half-hour slot. Very handy for automatically topping up the solar / house batteries. It's never failed to bill me correctly for a single half hour slot. Brilliant tariff. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Manuel Posted November 14, 2023 Share Posted November 14, 2023 (edited) This is what the billing looks like for a day when the system decided to give me an hours charge in the early evening. To be honest, it seems to do that every time I plug in at the moment. Edited November 14, 2023 by Gary Manuel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Gray Posted November 14, 2023 Share Posted November 14, 2023 Excellent info Gary, thanks. My Home Assistant Green has shipped so I’m hoping to be able to program some intelligent house battery charging when the EV is charging. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Gray Posted November 14, 2023 Share Posted November 14, 2023 43 minutes ago, Frank Skilbeck said: but would be interested as to how it works with your set up where you've set a higher target on the charger than the car. The car’s settings override the Zappi/Octopus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyB Posted November 14, 2023 Share Posted November 14, 2023 29 minutes ago, Ron Gray said: Excellent info Gary, thanks. My Home Assistant Green has shipped so I’m hoping to be able to program some intelligent house battery charging when the EV is charging. If you have a Givenergy system, I would recommend you just install PredBat which uses solar predictions, past usage information and upcoming tariff info (including your IO periods which it can get via the Octopus plugin for HA) to top up the battery intelligently to the minimum levels to get you through the day at least cost. I have ben running it for just over a week now, and it seems to be pretty good so far. https://springfall2008.github.io/batpred/ What is predbat, and what does it do? Setup videos on Loom Introduction video GivTCP Facebook group for help and support Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Gray Posted November 14, 2023 Share Posted November 14, 2023 I currently charge my batteries during the 6 hour overnight low rate period so I’m thinking that I need a program that will detect when the EV is charging (info from Myenergi) and then tell the Solis to charge the batteries. But this then got me thinking that the low rate stops at the end of the half hour time slot when the EV is ‘fully’ charged so could I get HA to stop the EV charging after say 5 minutes then allow it to start charging again in the next ½ hour time slot. This could mean that I could get low rate leccy for much longer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyB Posted November 14, 2023 Share Posted November 14, 2023 12 minutes ago, Ron Gray said: I currently charge my batteries during the 6 hour overnight low rate period so I’m thinking that I need a program that will detect when the EV is charging (info from Myenergi) and then tell the Solis to charge the batteries. But this then got me thinking that the low rate stops at the end of the half hour time slot when the EV is ‘fully’ charged so could I get HA to stop the EV charging after say 5 minutes then allow it to start charging again in the next ½ hour time slot. This could mean that I could get low rate leccy for much longer. That is absolutely possible from an HA perspective once you have the myenergi plugin. I suspect Octopus might catch on though after a bit...! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Manuel Posted November 14, 2023 Share Posted November 14, 2023 21 minutes ago, MattyB said: If you have a Givenergy system, I would recommend you just install PredBat which uses solar predictions, past usage information and upcoming tariff info (including your IO periods which it can get via the Octopus plugin for HA) to top up the battery intelligently to the minimum levels to get you through the day at least cost. I have ben running it for just over a week now, and it seems to be pretty good so far. https://springfall2008.github.io/batpred/ What is predbat, and what does it do? Setup videos on Loom Introduction video GivTCP Facebook group for help and support PredBat is great for complicated tariffs like Agile, but not needed for Intelligent Octopus tariff. You get much better results if you just charge to 100% at 7.5p every night and at every additional opportunity, then export any solar excess at 15p if batteries are full. Also the Octopus Plugin (and therefore Predbat) does not report Intelligent Octopus charging slots made by Ohme chargers because they work differently to vehicle APIs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Manuel Posted November 14, 2023 Share Posted November 14, 2023 (edited) 12 minutes ago, MattyB said: That is absolutely possible from an HA perspective once you have the myenergi plugin. I suspect Octopus might catch on though after a bit...! Yes, if the charger has an HA integration (my Ohme doesn't) that allows charging to be started and stopped from HA, then it should be easily possible. As you say, Octopus might catch on if you do this regularly as it is in breach of fair use policy. To be fair, if you have done your sums right and ordered the right size battery, you shouldn't need to (ab)use this facility very often and even then, a single half hour charging slot goes a long way. Edited November 14, 2023 by Gary Manuel 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Kearsley Posted November 14, 2023 Share Posted November 14, 2023 24 minutes ago, Ron Gray said: I currently charge my batteries during the 6 hour overnight low rate period so I’m thinking that I need a program that will detect when the EV is charging (info from Myenergi) and then tell the Solis to charge the batteries. But this then got me thinking that the low rate stops at the end of the half hour time slot when the EV is ‘fully’ charged so could I get HA to stop the EV charging after say 5 minutes then allow it to start charging again in the next ½ hour time slot. This could mean that I could get low rate leccy for much longer. Not really in the spirit of intelligent charging ( i.e. trying to be green)! Don't forget that Octopus reserve the right to remove you from the tariff at any time. There are a number of these schemes using automation to "work around" the original intention of intelligent charging and I just worry that it will end up spoiling things for all of us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Gray Posted November 14, 2023 Share Posted November 14, 2023 Octopus decide when the EV can be charged (outside the overnight period) and those additional slots are based on them having surplus or wanting to reduce grid loads at peak times. Those people who need to regularly put in a large charge to their EV benefit more than those who only charge say once a week but I’m not complaining about that. We must agree to disagree about what is ‘in the spirit of intelligent charging’! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Kearsley Posted November 14, 2023 Share Posted November 14, 2023 I know what you're saying Ron. But the Intelligent Octopus Go tariff is intended for EV charging - you have to have an EV to even get on the tariff, after all - and to eke out the EV charging over multiple 30 minute slots in order to get cheap electricity for other uses just seems "just not cricket old chap"! That said, if Octopus don't cotton on to what's going on, or don't care, then fair enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Gray Posted November 14, 2023 Share Posted November 14, 2023 (edited) Well they do make a big thing about being able to not just charge your EV during the overnight 6 hour timeslot but all of your other household leccy needs too. Anyway, it’s early days as I haven’t even got my HA Green yet, let alone programmed it! Edited November 14, 2023 by Ron Gray Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Kearsley Posted November 14, 2023 Share Posted November 14, 2023 Look forward to hearing how you get on Ron. I might look into this myself as my working life for the last 25 years was in IT and I've a decent background in coding, though well out of date now of course! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Learner Posted November 15, 2023 Share Posted November 15, 2023 British gas offering a years free Ev charging for up to 8000 miles if you buy a hive charger. Sounds ok but I doubt many on here would do 8000 miles so may not be worth it depending on initial cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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