Electric Cars.

[Erfolg]

Alan

As with most things, the devil is in the detail. The questions that need to be asked, is what happened to the Calder Reactor Fuel, then why. How much electricity that went into the grid went to domestic users, on a net basis compared to some other demands.

I think that THORP, is due to close imminently, which is only relevant in the context of Nuclear Fuel Management.

Which is another indirect issue relative to electric cars, when considered in the broad context.

The positive side of electric cars appears that customer satisfaction, in context of the users, appears to be quite high.

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Peter Christy]

Alan J: Perhaps I should have been clearer! The *original* reactor at Windscale barely qualified as a reactor at all, as we know them today. It was basically a wall of graphite with holes in it. Nuclear fuel (rods of uranium) was pushed into the holes, where the close proximity to other rods allowed a chain reaction to build up, moderated by the graphite to stop it from exploding!

Once the fuel rods were "processed" in the reactor, they were pushed out of the backside of the wall, onto a conveyor, and taken away to be used in warheads.

The so-called "Windscale Disaster" occurred because the graphite caught fire! Radioactive debris was sucked up the chimneys and spread far and wide.

There is no mention of it ever producing any power for the grid, although that was a cover story put out at the time, I believe.

There is quite a good description of the whole sorry saga here:

**LINK**

--

Pete

[Don Fry]

Percy. A few points. Will you please stop quoting car manufacturers marketing blurb as a statement of fact, as people in the real world understand it. Would you also be a little more circumspect it your assumptions of the future. I for one would be taking little notice of a casual political decision, kicking the can down the road for 22 years.

Bottom line, electric cars will come. Last year I believe just under 50,000 electric units were sold in the U.K.

Ford shifted just under 100,000 Fiestas.

[Peter Christy]

Posted by Erfolg on 26/04/2018 14:24:15:

The positive side of electric cars appears that customer satisfaction, in context of the users, appears to be quite high.

My son and his wife had a Renault Zoe for a while. Running costs were minimal, as were maintenance costs (no oil to change, no vibration to shake things loose, etc). It was great for commuting to work.

Unfortunately, it wasn't so good at fetching them to visit here, or for taking him to competitions (not enough range).

It has now been replaced by a Nissan Qashqai, which offers a lot more space, and much better range.

They did like the Zoe while they had it, though. Just not practical for anything other than shopping and a local commute. And that, sadly, seems to sum up the current state of development.

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Pete

[Nigel R]

"The questions that need to be asked, is what happened to the Calder Reactor Fuel, then why"

Spent Calder Fuel is concrete encased in a pond or two not far from the reactors.

Stuffing it in the Mariana Trench would solve most problems, just don't tell the public.

The silver lining of Windscale is that it stopped when it did and we can still actually visit the North West of England. Could have been much much worse.

[Trevor Crook]

Peter, the latest Zoe is available with a 40kWh battery, the same as the new Leaf. The biggest problem with it is Renault still persist with battery rental in most models.

[Cuban8]

I know it shouldn't wind me up, but it still does.........................Whenever I go shopping with Mrs C8 to Asda, there's usually a couple of non-electric vehicles sitting in the spaces with charging points (four spaces with 'leccy in total). The culprits are usually huge 4X4s of Teutonic manufacture. Because the charging points are close to the shop and I think the charging spaces might be a tad wider than usual, these inconsiderate people think they'll save themselves a walk and block access for someone who could really need the facility in a hurry.

[Don Fry]

Cuban, I was a police officer for 30 years. You hear of the lowest common denominator. I never actually reached what is the lowest common denominator of human behaviour.

Before computers and database searches, you would see police incident logs closed with NHBI.

Stands for, no human being involved.

[Peter Christy]

Posted by Trevor Crook on 26/04/2018 16:05:20:

Peter, the latest Zoe is available with a 40kWh battery, the same as the new Leaf. The biggest problem with it is Renault still persist with battery rental in most models.

Doubt if even that would get them from theirs to mine without a (non-existant) re-charge en-route. And it certainly wouldn't have got him to Poland for the world champs without constant stops. I think he only had to fill the Qashqai once on the way to Poland, and that wasn't a full tank.....!

I think the battery rental is to re-assure customers about the battery life. After all, the pack is around half the cost of the car! If its rental, its their problem, not yours.

The technology will come eventually, but its not there yet. And more importantly, neither is the infra-structure!

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Pete

[Andrew767]

Posted by IDD15 on 22/04/2018 22:43:30:

Re Tebay

Could not agree with you all more, the selection of pies in the Deli was fabulous. It is also one of the few places I have found damson jam!

Re Lake district passes

Great idea! Last time I drove them it was in a Mini Metro and it was hard work.

Re My EV journey

It was never a properly planned journey more a series of events over time really. A friend got a Prius a few years ago and it was really interesting learning about it. However as clever as the Prius is the fact that you had two propulsion systems and two energy systems in one car has always sat uncomfortably with me. Funnily enough we were out with him yesterday in his new Mitsubishi PHEV. Very, very impressive I have to say.

Then I heard about some start up called Tesla creating an electric sports car. Shortly after that I nearly stepped in front of one in Monte Carlo whilst working over there on a project for an oil company! I loved the quiet under stated performance as it zipped away, but not the price. For me though it kind of sowed the seed that an electric car was in my future, provided I could avoid being run over!

Step forward 4 years or so and I worked briefly with a lady who was utterly besotted with her Nissan Leaf! Shortly after that my employer at the time got some employee deal whereby you got £400 cash back through Nissan if you leased a Leaf. So we went for a test drive, were hooked and the rest is history.

Underlying all this is a professional interest in things electrical and the surrounding environmental issues. As Erf rightly points out there has to be a genuine gain else it is not worth it. I think there is a gain to be had with EV's and PHEV's

idd

 

IDD

A few pages have passed since i asked that question and thanks for the reply. My journey was a little different.

I had to close a business in 2010. I supplied services to a well known national DIY brand and of course after the downturn things dried up. My 6th Mondeo (after two dreadful Passats) which had been trouble free when travelling around the UK, began to have problems with it's EGR when my usage changed to frequent short journeys. So i decided to switch to petrol. My own car does little mileage, so as a stop gap i bought an old T30 X-Trail 2.5Ltr to last 6mths or so.3yrs later having run perfectly,save loving petrol like an alcoholic loves drink, i needed to replace it. Sadly almost no petrol SUVs of a reasonable size were available. My choices were limited to either a Range Rover 4.6ltr (I do so little mileage that i could live with 15mpg) or a Mitsubishi Outlander. Unfortunately my tame Landrover mechanic was just about to move abroad (Lancashire!!!!) so i was left with Hobsons choice. However the PHEV has proved to be exactly what i needed. The fuel economy came as a bonus and having spent time in my friends MOT station i had already decided to only run Japanese cars.

Andrew

 

 

 

Edited By Andrew767 on 26/04/2018 20:36:25

[Andrew767]

Posted by Cuban8 on 26/04/2018 16:26:37:

I know it shouldn't wind me up, but it still does.........................Whenever I go shopping with Mrs C8 to Asda, there's usually a couple of non-electric vehicles sitting in the spaces with charging points (four spaces with 'leccy in total). The culprits are usually huge 4X4s of Teutonic manufacture. Because the charging points are close to the shop and I think the charging spaces might be a tad wider than usual, these inconsiderate people think they'll save themselves a walk and block access for someone who could really need the facility in a hurry.

C8....I also see it near where i live.......I think some people do it to try and prove a pathetic point.

Andrew

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

I can't comment on the foibles of the Teutonic 4WD drivers and I'm not aware that our local ASDA has any charging points but I do know that at times it is difficult to find parking spaces. Playing Devil's advocate, is it really necessary to utilise several spaces to allow those who can't manage their charging/shopping regime to pop into their local supermarket without a top-up - or is there an element of subsidisation involved to attract customers? While I wouldn't condone people deliberately obstructing these spaces to make a point, could it be argued that the electric motorists are contributing to anti-social or antagonistic behaviour by expecting to monopolise them?

[Piers Bowlan]

I don't know about making a point Andrew but maybe they are simply very selfish. Similar thing outside my local mainline train station where certain people like to wait next to the passenger exit to pick up their other half, instead of waiting in the marked spaces provided. Trouble is, they block the disabled spaces and make it awkward for people correctly parked to exit the car park. The thing that strikes me is that the people who do this are invariably  driving a large shiny German 4X4 'truck'. Clearly they think that the rules don't apply to them!

Edited By Piers Bowlan on 27/04/2018 05:19:53

[Former Member]

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[Former Member]

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[Trevor Crook]

Peter, I think you've given a fair assessment of the ev situation at present - it's not there yet for the majority. However, phenomenal progress has been made by engineers and manufacturers in the last few years, probably the biggest challenge is the infastructure.

You're correct that the battery rental scheme was introduced to alleviate customer fear of battery failure, but it's outdated now as the batteries have proved more resilient than anyone expected. Nissan now include the battery with an 8 year warranty, I expect Renault to follow suit as they are part of the same company (Renault Nissan Mitsubishi Alliance).

[Don Fry]

Percy, they are polititions. They score political points. They won't be about in 22 years, or 12 years. They are still trying to work out what they might be doing in 2 years. And in 22 years time, if it suits, then that idea gets buried.

If you remember, their used to be a tax called (fuel duty escalator ?), who's stated purpose was to make fuel increasingly expensive to encourage efficiency. Scrapped at the first opportunity because truckers and taxi drivers had a whine, backed up by lovers of large powerful gas guzzlers.

Thank you for informing me that Porsche make diesels. I would never have dreamed such things exist. I looked it up to confirm. Now I like Porsche motors. Sound great, but impractical for me. And I can't get round to thinking you want a fast, stable sports car, and with all that money, you go for a diesel. Bet they were (are?), best sellers.

[Nigel R]

" Playing Devil's advocate, is it really necessary to utilise several spaces to allow those who can't manage their charging/shopping regime to pop into their local supermarket without a top-up"

Straightforward incentive to get people buying electric cars, no?

[Erfolg]

Percy

I am not sure if it is me that you are getting your nickers in a twist over. This is my source.

As one of the contributors has indicated PR departments for any business cannot be relied on. Who remembers Volvos boast with respect to autonous vehicles in London? I did not, not until yesterday, when reading the newspaper, about its latest pledge with respect to Electric Cars, when the journalist reminded readers. Reading the article I could see why the company would consider going partially electric, and yet still be more about PR.

Which reminded me of the Diesel issue particularly in Germany, where VAG is at the centre of the issue and the alleged (it is possibly the safest way of describing events) misdeeds. It appears to keep on almost the right side of the politicians and legal bodies, that some aspects of model launches are not being pushed in the short term, whilst individuals and companies are being investigated. At least one group of companies has avoided bankruptcy threatening legal actions. I wonder if it were a UK company, would we now be seeing the demise of companies and loss of jobs due to EU demands?

What ever the more committed Electric Vehicle want to happen, both Diesel and Petrol IC vehicles will be around for some time yet. At present Diesel has been demonised, by mainly extremists and environmentalists with their own agendas, in some cases more related to public against private services and ownership, seeing such issues as a means to an alternative end.

There is a awful lot of water still to flow under the bridge for some time yet. This is probably the high water mark for present day Diesels, which has as much to do with perception than reality.

I do think there is a lesson with respect to legislation and governmental decrees. That passing into regulation requirements without consideration of if something is possible, can lead to situations where compliance only occurs under certain situations as required. Just taking the view that science and industry will find a way, can be wishful thinking.

[MaL]

Perhaps if Asda had built the electric car recharge bays at the back of their car park along with the motorhome/caravan bays the problem of bay blocking wouldn't occur...never seen a 4x4 driver walking further than necessary....

[Erfolg]

Nigel

You have raised a number of issues, in my mind.

The first is should Supermarkets provide electric charging points. Unlike IC vehicles, which cannot these days be filled with fuel at home, perhaps the assumption could or should be made that they electric vehicles are fuelled at home.

On the other hand, it is a service, which Supermarkets see as beneficial, in that they can and should charge for, as they do with IC fuels.

It does seem that it does not make sense to provide charging points that are particularly conveniently located. I can see that providing such spaces for disabled persons is a sign of a considerate society. In a similar way, parking bays for those for children should be located in a traffic quite area, the need for convenient access not being the priority. For charging of a vehicle, it does seem that they should be located out of the way, in a similar way to Carbon Fuels. The basis is that they will be there for some time, the area should not be located inconveniently to other short term shoppers.

I am not a 4*4 driver, I am aware that some drive on the basis of might is right basis, although as a group they are possibly not collectively any different to the rest of us. I used to fume at those with valid disabled badges, that would leap out of their cars after parking in a disabled bay, then in some cases sprint or walk with ease away. Whereas my mother struggled to walk any distance at all. Where her just getting out of my car in a standard parking bay was difficult, due to the lack of space. There are always those who take advantage, due to being selfish, not just 4*4 drivers

In essence electric charging bays can be provided if Supermarket wants them, logically out in boon docks. Although this does require a long spur to the point, for which the user logically should pay. Hmm, but in essence if Supermarkets think differently, that is their prerogative. I may just go else where if it causes me a problem.

[Don Fry]

Posted by MaL on 27/04/2018 10:56:38:

Perhaps if Asda had built the electric car recharge bays at the back of their car park along with the motorhome/caravan bays the problem of bay blocking wouldn't occur...never seen a 4x4 driver walking further than necessary....

Cheapskate installation, less cable to lay, no one cares to think the problem through. So you end up with a mess. From the point of view of of the Teutonic overlord, it's an empty, prime, space.

[Nigel R]

" used to fume at those with valid disabled badges, that would leap out of their cars after parking in a disabled bay, then in some cases sprint or walk with ease away. "

Not every disability is physically apparent on first view, or physical at all.

As for the parent/toddler parking spaces being located somewhat close to shop entrance, sometimes getting the little delights into the shop quickly is of the essence... Like charging points, there is no requirement for shops to provide parent/toddler parking, it is an enticement, if I have my offspring in tow it is a small factor; do I go to the supermarket or do battle with the high street? Often the supermarket wins.

[Erfolg]

Nigel

I understood from my mothers application for a Disabled badge, one of the stipulations was an inability to walk over a prescribed distance.

I can accept that there are many forms of disability, although for the use of a disabled parking bay, many of them i would have thought irrelevant.

In my case, on a number of occaisons when I was urged to park in a bay, because she had the badge, I would explain, that in my view it would be an abuse, if only I was going into the supermarket, or anything else.

Don not all 4*4 are made in Germany. I have railed at Range Rovers, when driving with my wife, as being self abusers and so on. I am sure that most are ordinary people, although in these cases, I see no evidence.

Edited By Erfolg on 27/04/2018 13:37:27

Edited By Erfolg on 27/04/2018 14:46:20