Manish Chandrayan Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 An unfortunate low level incident resulted in the damage that you see to the ASP 160 twin. Other than changing the case itself what other options could I try to get the engine running again?Edited By Manish Chandrayan on 11/02/2018 18:05:41 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Hargreaves - Moderator Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 Er no pics Manish....?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manish Chandrayan Posted February 11, 2018 Author Share Posted February 11, 2018 Unable to post pictures of the damaged engine from my phone. Will update the thread with relevant pictures as soon as I can. Pictures can be seen at my album titled odds and ends. The last three pictures. Edited By Manish Chandrayan on 11/02/2018 18:12:01Edited By Manish Chandrayan on 11/02/2018 18:13:51 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Hargreaves - Moderator Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 Just had a look at your album Manish..... Ooooo dear.... Worth trying some epoxy IMHO.....make sure all is clean & de-greased first. I have to say I think the epoxy joint will fail in time however..... Could you fashion a bracket from aluminium sheet that could be attached elsewhere on the engine perhaps? I'm not familiar with that engine so not sure what fixing points might be available Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil 9 Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 JB weld? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manish Chandrayan Posted February 11, 2018 Author Share Posted February 11, 2018 Thanks Gents for taking the time and trouble to look up the album. JB Weld or Devcon Titanium putty is what I have been thinking to try out. The bracket that broke is what ensures that the carb throat is aligned and seated in the intake. Therefore don't think some other fixing point may not work outEdited By Manish Chandrayan on 11/02/2018 18:24:51 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flight1 Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 the only thing i would try is this stuff ALUMINIUM BRAZING SOLDER . take the carb off and clean all grease oil off around the bracket thats snaped off , just make shur you heat the metal up correctly which will melt the rod and do not melt the rod with the tourch flame.. used it my self on other things and it does work. Jb weld and epoxy just won't do it Edited By flight1 on 11/02/2018 18:42:42 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manish Chandrayan Posted February 11, 2018 Author Share Posted February 11, 2018 The Aluminum solder/weld had occurred to me but I discounted that due to risk of case distortion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denis Watkins Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 Here you go Manish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denis Watkins Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 Aluminium engine head repairers/alloy wheel repairer Would run a localised inert gas, or electric weld on that bit As only a small amount of metal held it in place originally A lot of 4 strokes run on an additional interference fit extended manifold Add a pipe between the two, and brace the carb Edited By Denis Watkins on 11/02/2018 18:59:20 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flight1 Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 Posted by Manish Chandrayan on 11/02/2018 18:49:36: The Aluminum solder/weld had occurred to me but I discounted that due to risk of case distortion. take the stuff manifold off too before the rest gets quite hot is use, so distortion should't be a concern at 300deg c rod melting piont Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Bran Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 Don't think bush carpentry is a good idea. There are specialised welding services around that have the ability and tools/materials to effect a proper repair. I have used Blakers Specialised Welders (in West Sussex) many times and they have done unbelievably good work on in some cases 90 year old aluminium castings. No connection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cymaz Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 Its £90 ish for a new crankcase from Just Engines....ball is in your court Manish.. Edited By cymaz on 11/02/2018 19:58:51 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broken Prop Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 Baldyne Engineering in Bromley can do aluminium welding. They regularly weld up cracks in ally wheels (mainly BMW for some reason). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TartanMac Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 The solder I used to fix a crack in a pipe melts at 235 degrees C. 450 degrees F. But it has to be really clean. I would not use an adhesive I would not trust it especially on a carb and on an engine of that value. Maybe you could make a bracket of your own to fix it to, coming of a nearby bolt the cylinder bolts look close. If using solder or a welder it will get very hot normal outside cylinder temp is I think 245F. So you would probably be best stripping it down and getting the oil and grease and any parts that will melt off it. Apart from that the only thing I can think of before I would spend the money for a case would be to try and fit twin carbs from a Laser 1.60 as it will run better and no need to worry about the same problem happening again. But again that will take some work also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 This is good for repairing aluminium castings - if you can drill a hole through the 2 parts and bond in a hard pin with full strength epoxy plus a fillet of the putty either side onto a cleaned and roughened surface, I think you'd have a useable repair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Fry Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 New case, or get a professional in to do it. Not a job to learn a skill on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TartanMac Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 Just looking at the last picture on the thread Manish you can see 2 bolts. I don't know what tools you have and what you would be comfortable doing but if I wanted to fix that in as simple a way as possible without trusting an adhesive or using molten metal then a purely mechanical fix would be to make a bracket. You could use the 2 bolts that hold the plenum if that is what it's called behind the carb to bolt in a plate you could make out of aluminium plate basically a rectangular plate with 2 holes in one end for the plenum end then 2 holes at the other end for the carb. You could then use an adhesive to glue a small piece from the carb end to the case as a support rather than a structural joint. I am not sure how heavy your carb is and how much G force you put on the airframe but that is the simplest way I can think of. You would probably need 2 bolts slightly longer than the original plenum bolts to make up for the thickness of the plate. Maybe a dremmel bit for grinding as the plenum part has a curve in between the bolts and some adhesive that will bond metal well if it needs the support at the end and of course an aluminium plate a back saw and a drill also maybe those nuts with the plastic in them for the 2 carb bolts. But you would not need to take the engine apart which is nice. And it is pretty simple to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manish Chandrayan Posted February 12, 2018 Author Share Posted February 12, 2018 Thanks Denis for putting the pictures in the thread. Thank you all for your valuable advice. I will try with JB weld and if it gives away (and the engine survives) then I would get a petrol conversion carb from Morris mini motors and make the engine full gas conversion from the current glow CDI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piers Bowlan Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 TattanMac sounds like he may have a simple/cheap solution that is worth a try. I would not attempt JB Weld etc myself as I cannot see it being successful. If a professional welder can guarantee his repair and it doesn't cost more than half the cost of a new crankcase, then that might be worth a try. Otherwise bite the bullet and buy a new crankcase from JE and put it down to experience - it is a lot but still less than a quarter of the cost of a new engine and your engine won't run as it is! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giuseppe Saroli Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 JB Weld trust me what have you got to lose and you have plenty leftover for more repairs Also very good to join carbon tube i use all the time just make sure the repair is secured and leave it alone for 48 hours Good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manish Chandrayan Posted February 12, 2018 Author Share Posted February 12, 2018 Tartanmac Having reread your suggestion, I think that bracket idea should be doable. Will fabricate one in brass first to see if it works. If it does I will get one made in steel. That bracket along with the original piece glued in should hold the carb good enough. The engine is (or was) on a Cub so would not experience much of G forces, and the engine being an even twin has advantage of very low vibrations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuban8 Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 I bought some JB Weld to experiment with rather than getting into proper welding/brazing for a small job. I bonded a length of 1/2" dia aluminium tube to a sheet of 1/8" ali plate (drilled to suit) with JB Weld and was very impressed with the result. The 'weld' is stronger than the materials being joined and I can't break the pieces apart without bending either. Only tips I'd give, if you haven't used it before, is to make sure the surfaces to be joined are absolutely clean and free of oil/grease - lightly key mating surfaces if possible and build up as much of a fillet of the weld as is practical. The joint strength increases markedly with time, so leave for at least a week at room temperature to cure fully, in fact as long as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manish Chandrayan Posted February 12, 2018 Author Share Posted February 12, 2018 Yes have already ordered the JB weld, will take few days to come in. Will update here once I have worked on the engine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Engine Doctor Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 Welding the case is hit and miss due to the rubbish alloy used in manufacture. Techno weld would work ok but be very careful with heat application as any part that gets too hot might cause distortion,sagging or bubbling in the casting.Try the JB weld and then buy a new case if and when it fails . Check carefully that the impact hasn't cracked or distorted the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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