Dave Rose Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 The announcement on bmfa website makes it clear that the Gov is about to change the law in respect of drones. As far as the definition of drones goes, we are people who fly drones. Small unmanned aircraft are what we fly and therefore in law, we fly drones. Most of us don't fly those quadcopter thingys that are a nuisance most of the time, and are the machines at which this upcoming legislation is aimed, but nevertheless, all model aircraft including gliders have become drawn into the definition. Therefore, until the legislation spefically excludes gliders, I can see a problem after July 2018. That date is clearly mentioned, as is 400 ft. And that will be used, you can bet, by any insurance or legal action,, after that date in any possible incident arising from , e g thermal E soaring competition occurring after that date, unless this isn't clarified PDQ. It seems to me that the BMFA have some work to do, and quickly, for their Thermal competition minded members. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 There'll be a Bobby with a big bamboo stick BEB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Thomas Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 Under qualified,bored or personal gain..... .. this is my take on the whole thing. It cannot be policed, in high security areas then yes it's policed.... and rightly so, but for the average joe just trying to "have fun" which is a phrase so lost these days I don't think it's too much to worry about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Green2 Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 The language is interesting. I for one have never flown a drone, only model aircraft. Even plod can differentiate between the two. I predict some positive news for us model aircraft flyers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Cooper Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 I always said, and I quote, "Drones represent the largest threat to the continued existence of our hobby". Naturally, I got loads of flak -- mainly from drone operators (let's not call them pilots, eh..). Drones are not model aircraft but, sadly, common sense is not that common so the legislators will have difficulty recognising the difference, and model aircraft might be affected by drone legislation. . . sigh. B.C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lee Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 Posted by Percy Verance on 31/05/2018 16:15:21: I'm wondering how on earth it will be policed. Just how will the powers that be know you flew at 425 feet? Drone detection & tracking systems are starting to emerge & were in use at the Royal Wedding Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuban8 Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 Posted by Brian Cooper on 01/06/2018 09:50:13: I always said, and I quote, "Drones represent the largest threat to the continued existence of our hobby". Naturally, I got loads of flak -- mainly from drone operators (let's not call them pilots, eh..). Drones are not model aircraft but, sadly, common sense is not that common so the legislators will have difficulty recognising the difference, and model aircraft might be affected by drone legislation. . . sigh. B.C. Like you , Brian, I always thought that the BMFA should have distanced itself from drones, concentrated on the interests of model flying and allowed another specialist body to act solely for the drone lobby. To quote FPVUK on their website "FPV UK is the national governing body for radio control FPV and drone flying in the UK. Not a mention of BMFA anywhere and most importantly, not a picture or mention of a model aeroplane, glider, heli anywhere. FPVUK appear to know what a drone is, so why the confusion in other quarters? He who sups with the devil should have a long spoon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Gray Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 Not quite true Cuban8, on their homepage you will see this: FPV UK is an association of hobbyist radio control drone (or unmanned/ model aircraft) pilots. First Person View (FPV) flying is flying a model aircraft (or “drone&rdquo using a small video camera mounted on the aircraft and video goggles to see the view from Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Gray Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 The problem is the government, the CAA quite clearly know the difference and refer to them separately, the government bundle them both together under SUA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatMc Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 Posted by Cuban8 on 01/06/2018 10:38:57: Posted by Brian Cooper on 01/06/2018 09:50:13: I always said, and I quote, "Drones represent the largest threat to the continued existence of our hobby". Naturally, I got loads of flak -- mainly from drone operators (let's not call them pilots, eh..). Drones are not model aircraft but, sadly, common sense is not that common so the legislators will have difficulty recognising the difference, and model aircraft might be affected by drone legislation. . . sigh. B.C. Like you , Brian, I always thought that the BMFA should have distanced itself from drones, concentrated on the interests of model flying and allowed another specialist body to act solely for the drone lobby. To quote FPVUK on their website "FPV UK is the national governing body for radio control FPV and drone flying in the UK. Not a mention of BMFA anywhere and most importantly, not a picture or mention of a model aeroplane, glider, heli anywhere. FPVUK appear to know what a drone is, so why the confusion in other quarters? He who sups with the devil should have a long spoon. Of course there's also another, probably more pragmatic, maxim - "It's better they're inside the tent urinating out, than outside the tent urinating in" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatMc Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 Posted by Ron Gray on 01/06/2018 11:17:47: The problem is the government, the CAA quite clearly know the difference and refer to them separately, the government bundle them both together under SUA. No, the problem is that the government need to use a precise legal definition that's not ambiguous. As yet no one has come up with one that distingushes the difference between what's commonly refered to as a "drone" and other types of model aircraft. Perhaps legislation should be considered based on the activity rather than the hardware. Edited By PatMc on 01/06/2018 12:38:51 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Green2 Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 Thank you for the clarification David. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuban8 Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 Posted by Ron Gray on 01/06/2018 11:15:22: Not quite true Cuban8, on their homepage you will see this: FPV UK is an association of hobbyist radio control drone (or unmanned/ model aircraft) pilots. First Person View (FPV) flying is flying a model aircraft (or “drone&rdquo using a small video camera mounted on the aircraft and video goggles to see the view from We can kick this around until the cows come home, but the fact is that model flying as far as the majority of us are concerned is not about drones/ multi rotor FPV or fixed wing FPV or whatever else you can come up with and the reaction that I detect when discussing this with friends and club members over the preceding years is that we're being stuffed (lone flyers or those that choose to fly outside of an official club environment even more so) - and for no good reason. Technology has had a tremendous impact on model flying making it cheaper, easier and safer than ever before. Large IC engines, turbines, and large and very large models have all found their mark in the hobby and have been embraced by us with hardly any negative impact and a common sense approach to regulation given our exemplary safety record. Edited By Cuban8 on 01/06/2018 13:16:12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Gray Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 @Cuban8 - if I fly my Hurricane everyone classifies it as a model aircraft, if I fly my Hurricane with a camera in the cockpit what is it now? Most of us would still say that it is a model aircraft. If I then fly the Hurricane and put on my FPV goggles (taking the correct precautions of having a buddy lead and a spotter in place) what is it now? As PatMc says, it is the use that determines what it is. Now if I fly my DJI Mavic, no matter if I fly FPV or line of sight, most of us would classify it as a drone! Edited By Ron Gray on 01/06/2018 13:21:56 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martyn K Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 I think we are losing sight of the reasons for the new legislation. EASA regulations are Europe wide and are designed primarily to protect aircraft. The revised ANO by HMG is an extension of existing but primarily designed to clear airspace for commercial operations. This will be from 400ft to (I am guessing) about 1000ft. Whether we can differentiate what a 'drone' is or not is irrelevant, this will affect all SUAs For the majority of sports fliers, once the competency and bureaucracy requirements are implemented and absorbed it will have minimal impact. We will still be able to fly albeit limited to 400ft or thereabouts. I look at this as a speed limit. We ALL speed to a greater or lesser extent, you run the risk of getting caught. A greater risk the more you abuse the limit. What bothers me is whether we will be obliged to implement any tracking sensors or not and how that will be enforced. Unlike the EASA regulations, I am not sure whether Model registration is still a requirement as well as Pilot registration. It does not appear to be stated but if so, how will that work and what impact will it have? But my biggest concern is the impact it will have on competitive aeromodelling - especially thermal glider flying and F3A. It's all very well saying that NOTAMs will be issued for competitive events, however, this will prevent trimming and practicing - both essential for a serious competitive aeromodeller. There does appear to be a loophole in the new regs though. It refers to models controlled by Radio (actually remote) Control. It does not mention Free Flight which I assume will be exempt from the new regs.. Happy to be flamed on all that Martyn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Meade Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 As you'd expect, BALPA don't think it's enough. I can't really argue with that though - 1km is still quite close to aerodromes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wright Stuff Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 Posted by Andy Meade on 01/06/2018 14:12:29: I can't really argue with that though - 1km is still quite close to aerodromes. Absolutely. If I've got my maths right, 400 feet subtends an angle of about 7 degrees over 1 km horizontally (you've got to love the mixed units). As I understand it, most airliners descend at about 3 degrees, meaning that over 2 km of distance is ideally needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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