Masking

[Erfolg]

I am about to mask my Gee Bee, the picture below is of how it should be after painting.

I have sprayed the white/cream using acrylic paint.

I the past i have sprayed and masked similar arrangements using enamels.

Recently changing to Acrylic paint, I seem to have had occasion of bleed. I think because unless the weather is as today, the paint is slightly wet on contact with the surface. Subsequent coats of over painting increase the dampness.

I have been using this tape for masking.

I have been considering this tape.

Has any one an opinion or relevant experience of the tapes and methodology?

[Don Fry]

Erf, mask it up, and do an initial light spray of the colour you are masking off. You will get bleed under the tape, but because it's the same colour will be invisible.

But it has the effect of sealing the tape edges, so when you spay the final colour you don't get bleed.

[Steve Balaam]

Invest in the tape the car sprayers use, bit more expensive but well worth it.

Any decent motor spares shop should be able to get it

[Danny Fenton]

Those tapes are good, especially the Frog tape. I have found the Tamiya paper tape the best. The only issue being is it wont go around bends. Not cheap though.

I get almost zero bleed on solartex with Tamiya. If you combine that with Don's method you should get a good result.

Cheers

Danny

[Philip Ogden]

Tamiya now make a white vinyl tape of varying widths down to3mm especially for curves. Works very well.

[Erfolg]

Danny, I like the concept of Dons method, as logically it should work.

When you say those tapes are good, does that include the Blue Tape I have now.

I am particularly nervous as all my efforts so far spraying onto "Black Baron Super Coverite" have been pants. Even my previous attempts on models wher I have not been to fussed, have been far better than I achieved on this model. It has been frustrating and most disappointing.

[Ernie]

Hi erfolg

I have been using a felt pen that is quick drying and transparent. A line about 5 mm thick wide over the edge of the masking material will give a good seal. I cant remember where I got it, Maybe everything airbrush

ernie

[Don Fry]

Erf, make a couple of feet of "dummy" wing. Cover one side. It will not take more than an hour. And then have a play. Experiment with a bit less paint. Experiment. And you can always pull the covering off, recover, and play again.

Paint the plane when you have a plan of how to do it.

[Danny Fenton]

Posted by Erfolg on 05/07/2018 16:33:52:

Danny, I like the concept of Dons method, as logically it should work.

When you say those tapes are good, does that include the Blue Tape I have now.

I am particularly nervous as all my efforts so far spraying onto "Black Baron Super Coverite" have been pants. Even my previous attempts on models wher I have not been to fussed, have been far better than I achieved on this model. It has been frustrating and most disappointing.

The blue tape shown looks very similar to Scotch 3434 tape which is very good, but not as good as Tamiya paper tape. I have tried green vinyl tape and a blue one 3M 471 and they are really great for curves, on a smooth surface, however if you are working over solartex then you will get creep. Don's method does work, but dont use too much paint to seal the edge or it will create a film bridge between the lower surface and the tape. When you peel the tape off that film can tear and leave a mess.

I use the cheapest tape I can get away with for the particular job at hand. The Tamiya tape is expensive so is used sparingly. You can often use a good tape line and then back it up with cheaper wider paper tape. Be careful with cheaper paper tapes though they are often way to sticky for our needs and you could lift the paint peeling it off!

Cheers

Danny

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Cuban8]

I used 3M blue tape (3mm) to mask up the camoflage on my glassed BT Spit, worked a treat and could be put into quite tight bends without any problem. No bleed and easily lifted away. **LINK**

Edited By Cuban8 on 06/07/2018 18:35:00

[Erfolg]

I have tried my blue tape, cut into thin strips. It seem OK at the edge that needs to be sharp, although just in, it certainly is not. With a degree of uncertainty i will take it of.

As I have struggled so far, I have ordered the 3m tape @ 3mm. I will probably overlap it to provide the land to get my blue tape and masking paper onto it.

I had thought I could do both sides of the wing in one go. On inspection i will have to do the spraying in two separate sessions, where the wheel spats are carefully masked off. Then do the masking on the spats as a separate operation.

I had always seen the body as a separate entity for spraying.

[Allan Bennett]

I use this mask, cut into strips or shapes as necessary. It's quite flexible, so will go round corners to a certain extent, or over 3D curves. But I also do a quick spray of the background colour as well, as suggested above. In fact, no need to spray, you can just run along the edge with a small paintbrush of the background colour, or even a clear acrylic, to seal it before airbrushing the top colour.

[Erfolg]

I used to use a similiar product for artwork, that was called "Frisk". I do have something similar, at least in theory. I suspect that it is now pretty useless, as I no longer do any artwork.

I tend to see my models as spray jobs rather than anything Fancy. I think I probably did this one with a liquid mask.

But as with most things, if you have not done anything for 10-20 years, you forget and above all loose what skill you may have had due to the lack of practice. On that basis i am very reliant on you all to remind me of technique and currently available materials. (it is actually 40 years since i sprayed the Gee Bee model)

[Martin McIntosh]

Just have a look at my thread, `Martin`s Hawk`, to see the problems I had with paint bleed when I tried changing to water based stuff. Turned out to be a reaction with the Halford`s primer. A coat of clear dope over the primer would have prevented it but the damage was already done.

[Danny Fenton]

I find Frisk is far to aggresive, its sticks too well

I have benn making stencils for lettering etc and use a series seven stencil film from a company called Metamark, it is far less sticky than Frisk but masks a really crisp edge. Not sure if we are losing the plot here, wasn't the original post about tape and paint bleed when used over textured film, or am I losing the plot

Cheers

Danny

[Erfolg]

I do not think you are loosing the plot Danny.

The problem seems to be, I am now finding it difficult to know what to do, then when i try and do it, my results are poor.

Years ago it all seemed dead easy, It could have been the continuous practice, different materials. For instance i used a lot of inks, which seemed to air brush well. Enamels sprayed well, but cleaning could be tiresome.

It could be that so called present day Acrylics are not as equal as the old inks, enamels and artists Acrylics were. More probably it is an age thing, where masking seems to be a pain, that my paints no longer spray dry on contact. I used to spray/air brush in the house, now it is the heated garage, it could be just more temp and weather dependent.

[Engine Doctor]

Posted by Erfolg on 09/07/2018 06:10:54:

Years ago it all seemed dead easy, It could have been the continuous practice, different materials. For instance i used a lot of inks, which seemed to air brush well. Enamels sprayed well, but cleaning could be tiresome.

It could be that so called present day Acrylics are not as equal as the old inks, enamels and artists Acrylics were. More probably it is an age thing, where masking seems to be a pain, that my paints no longer spray dry on contact. I used to spray/air brush in the house, now it is the heated garage, it could be just more temp and weather dependent.

Your correct in thinking that finishing materials have changed . Modern paint is not as easy to apply as it has had many of its contents that made it work banned or reduced for health reasons. Masking tape that sticks and can be lifted without pulling the substrate off is very hard to find probably due to savings on the adhesive used . Its either too sticky or wont stick . I did a lot of car spraying/custom painting some years ago and the masking tape cheaply obtained at the time was good but started to get less sticky . I used "Fineline tape" when a crisp line was needed . It stuck well , no bleed could be used on tight bends and lifted easily . The latest offerings are poor by comparison . Only the expensive 3M tape is still of good quality .

[Allan Bennett]

The paint I normally use is Lifecolor water based acrylic, usually on top of Halfords plastic primer, and I've never had a problem with UltraMask peeling it off. I use Frisk also, but not as a mask, only as a carrier to hold letters and other masks together while I apply them.

[Peter Christy]

I've always used ordinary masking tape from the local ironmongers, but I do use a technique similar to that recommended by Don Fry, near the top of this thread. I usually use clear dope to seal the edge before applying the colour coat. If you are using acrylic, you could use a clear acrylic aerosol just to seal the edges prior to the main colour coat.

This technique has served me well down the years, and although paint is not my forte, even I usually get acceptable results this way!

--

Pete

[Don Fry]

Next time out, I'm going to try the clear lacquer route. Easier than bothering to clean a gun.

[Erfolg]

When I receive my 3M masking tape, I will try the small paint brush to seal the tape. As as been suggested, the cleaning and thinning of the paint and spray gun takes to long, if a simpler way exists. It is worth a try.

I keep debating with myself the best way of attaching the masking paper, to the thin masking tape. My initial plan is to undertake a double width of the 3mm tape. Then use the blue tape to tape onto as near half way as possible on the 3M tape the remainder of the tape to hold the newspaper mask.

Is there a better way?

By the way, it (3M tape) will not arrive before Friday.

Edited By Erfolg on 10/07/2018 17:00:22

[Allan Bennett]

I generally cut my UltraMask into strips about 6mm wide then, after rubbing it down with the back of a fingernail to get good adhesion, it's easy to attach pieces of newspaper to it using regular DIY-store masking tape. With your double row of 3mm tape you're going to have to make sure the second layer of masking tape covers the join between the two rows, as well as attaching the newspaper. But, with care, it's doable.

[Erfolg]

I have been considering the issues I have been experiencing with spraying. I have noted that i am using a much higher pressure than I would have used with art type media. The media that I used for art type medias were Inks, and diluted Acrylic paints, using flow improver, in addition to water, alternatively I have used quite a bit of F&W Acrylic Ink.. For spraying models, typically i would use Humbrol Enamel paint with Humbrol Thinners. All of these things were done at probably 10-15 psi. Perhaps crucially I used proper airbrushes for art work and a Humbrol spay gun. I managed to knacker the Humbrol Spray gun, then replaced it with a HK Airbrush. The HK airbrush was always a problem, in essence designed for art type media.

The biggest loss is Rotring no longer selling artists inks.

When I started using household paints (Acrylic/emulsion), I found that the paint was thick, with coarse ground pigments and fillers.

Paint systems sold as suitable for spraying, in art shops have been very expensive, also rarely available in the colours that I have been wanting or using. In recent times, when ever I spotted liquid Acrylic paint in art shops, on offer such Fred Aldus, I would purchase them, wanted or not. Although not sold for spraying, thinned with flow improver, they have sprayed well. However models in general defy this tactic for colour matching.

I recently purchased a Badger Airbrush (spray gun), to replace the HK unit. The Badger Airbrush is not from memory as good as the old Humbrol unit.  I have not thinned the paint much, although spraying at this 20 psi pressure. My reasoning being, that water as a solvent does not evaporate well. I think the other issue I have suffered from, was the cold and damp weather we endured until this warm spell. A test |I recently undertook indicated that the damp surface issue I was experiencing, was very much reduced.

At resent I am masking up again, and have noted poor adhesion properties of the High Build primer fro Euro Parts.

Edited By Erfolg on 12/07/2018 12:08:59

Edited By Erfolg on 12/07/2018 12:10:07

[Engine Doctor]

You could try using paint reducing medium supplied for thinning water based car base coats. It seems to dry faster than water and cost about £6 a liter .

The poor adhesion is probably due to being applied too dry.

Edited By Engine Doctor on 12/07/2018 13:20:59