IC Models-Should we be worried?

[David P Williams]

Geoff, by soulless I meant that each of my i/c engines has its own character, I've had to get to know their individual idiosynchrasies to get the best out of them. Maybe that is true also of electric in the bigger sizes, but the few electric models I have or have had just seem to be plug it in and it whizzes round. There is no right or wrong, better or worse - they're just different and appeal to different people in different ways.

I'm old enough that I will probably be able to see out my modelling life using i/c, but I agree that it is and will continue to be in decline.

[Former Member]

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[David Davis]

Posted by Percy Verance on 03/11/2018 16:22:56:

David

As you might imagine, my Slovenian is lacking. However, after working for three years with a Romanian girl during the course of my (part time) work with a National Charity, I have learned to swear in Romanian.......

It might come in handy one day........

Edited By Percy Verance on 03/11/2018 16:27:42

I can swear in French!

I have some electric powered model aeroplanes. At the moment I have two ARTFs and an electric powered Junior 60 which I use for training nervous, wobbly, elderly beginners. When I imported the Telemasters my favourite was an electric powered Telemaster 40, a six-foot, (1.8 metre) trainer, the second largest in the photograph, so I don't regard myself as fundamentally opposed to electric flight.

Similarly I prefered my Baron when it flew on electric power compared to when it flew with a "nitro" motor.

Having said that I like the challenge of setting up an i/c engine. I have just spent the afternoon flying my four-stroke powered Senior Telemaster, flying lazy horizontal eights using the rudder to change direction and the throttle to change height, the Thunder Tiger 90 chuffing away like a good un. An electric powered model would not have had the same attraction.

Concerning engines cutting out in flight. This is usually due to inadequate running-in in my experience. That and notorious engine butchers who are forever fiddling with the needle valves when they don't know what they're doing. If you chose a reputable make of engine: OS, Irvine, Super Tigre, Thunder Tiger, Enya, Laser, Saito even ASP and SC, given proper running in, they'll give long and reliable service. However, even these fine engines may have a fit of the sulks if the carburetter is blocked with debris or if the fuel is so old that it is incombustible. (Put some petrol into it!) For me, setting up an engine is an attractive part of the hobby and I don't mind getting my model or my hands dirty!

The Slovenian blokes in the video which I posted, had a brand new engine, inadequately run-in in my view, either that or the fuel tank was too small. A bit more time in the air and it'll be fine. Mind you, if your experience of model aircraft engines is limited to MDS or Leo engines, no wonder that you have a contrary opinion!

Edited By David Davis on 03/11/2018 18:28:04

[Former Member]

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[paul devereux]

Since noise is the main complaint against model planes, electric makes complete sense. I remember people complaining about my little Cox-powered glider years ago.

[Former Member]

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[Martin Harris - Moderator]

There are two types of aeromodeller. Those who feel IC engines have "soul" - and those that who don't.

I feel a little sorrow for the latter.

[eflightray]

Posted by SIMON CRAGG on 03/11/2018 07:43:39:

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How can you possibly replicate four .90fs powered warbirds in formation with the equivalent electric versions?

...................................

Simple, fit the modern engine sound generators, you can have all sorts of 'real' engine sound, Merlins, Allisons, radials, even multi-motor sound for those big four engine models that are often a risk to fly with IC engines, (very rare to get one motor stop with electric).

I've nothing against IC engines, (well Ok, two-strokes do sound awful ), I can remember my control line days, (50's) of flying diesels and glows without silencers. But things change, they move on. I use digital servos now, not an escapement or Mighty Midget motor with rubber band biasing.

As they say, nostalgia isn't what it used to be.

Ray.

[SIMON CRAGG]

Intersting replies...........looks like I am not alone.

I have got a foot in both camps at the moment, and have got four models in the workshop underging construction / modificatiion:

Sportsman Aviation Spitfire, fitting OS .61 FSR / Pitts silencer

Telemaster (40 size), ASP 46

Horizon Cirrus electric low wing jobbie.

Durafly FW 190 electric.

So nice mixed bag to keep me going through the Winter!.

[Former Member]

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[Peter Miller]

Posted by Martin Harris on 03/11/2018 20:10:23:

There are two types of aeromodeller. Those who feel IC engines have "soul" - and those that who don't.

I feel a little sorrow for the latter.

Oh Yes! They do!

[Malcolm Fisher]

Tom, You must be a similar vintage to me. I remember when the model area was just a corner to the left of the door as you went in. I don't know of any other model shop still existing in Leeds whereas when I started building planes circa 1950 there were several. Let's hope that this one doesn't disappear as well.

Malcolm

[Geoff S]

I think the dearth of local model shops in small and medium sized towns is much greater threat to the hobby than the trend towards electric power. I didn't start aeromodelling until 1995 when I was 55 but there several shops I could use - several within easy cycling distance. I used them all from time to time. Now there are none. The last was Hobbystores in Beeston nr Nottingham which wasn't very convenient for me but both my brother and sister live near where the shop once was so it wasn't too bad to visit.

When I was a child I bought the odd Kielcraft rubber kit from the toy shop just a few doors away from where we lived but it wasn't a 'proper' model shop. However I got a bit of fun building the kits even though I wasn't a dedicated modeller. Those outlets no longer exist either.

Geoff

[ChrisB]

Model propulsion is changing but im not sure IC is going to end.

Of the 21 aircraft I have, 8 are electric, 5 are petrol and 8 are glow. Of the glow 4 are lasers, 1 saito, 2 ASPfs and 1 Irvine 2s.

The way i see it, electric models have their place but they arent any cheaper than IC when you get above the usual club models.

For small/medium sized models Acro Wots etc then there isn't much in it. However for larger models 1\4 scale etc then i'm not convinced that they are cheaper. Yes they are cleaner for scale models they don't sound right but they arent cheaper.

The cost of a Laser 300v is about £600. That engine will power a Flair Stearman with ease, or a 1/5 warbird or a decent sized aerobatic model. With a decent sized fuel tank and a gallon of fuel you can have loads of flights and in a single session you can easily have 4 or 5 flights and still have lots of fuel left.

To do the same with electric, you will spend similar money with a motor, controller and lipos. But to have 4x15 minute flights in a single session will need a lot of lipos.

When the Horizon display team were displaying there Hangar 9 50cc P51s a few years ago they would get 4 minute flights and used several lipos per flight. With an IC engine, you could fly all day on a single tank, have a nice sound and not spend much more.

There are dozens of petrol engines on the market which is growing all the time. Electric is good for certain applications but IC will remain in one form or another for years to come.

[ChrisB]

Posted by Martin Harris on 03/11/2018 20:10:23:

There are two types of aeromodeller. Those who feel IC engines have "soul" - and those that who don't.

I feel a little sorrow for the latter.

I agree. When a scale model, in particular, fires up with a set of lipos its just not the same as the sound of a four stroke purring away.

[kevin b]

Is it true that you have to be over 75 to take part in these discussions ?

If you think about it, by the time the yoof of today reach that age the only ic engines about may well be model ones !

Everything from garden tools to container ships will probably be powered by electric.

Mind you, where they will get the fuel from to run them is another question.

[Former Member]

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[Nigel R]

So we've agreed, some of us like oily things.

I even rather like two stroke glows. A good sixty is a beautiful thing. Mechanically so simple, the complete reduction of any complexity to its barest minimum to produce a fine piece of functioning art. I am presumably headed for the seventh circle of hell for this transgression against the modern way of low noise electrical gubbins. Ps I am a electronic engineer by training and software by practice so I see a lot of electrical stuff.

Four strokes are marvelous things too.

Petrol don't count they have to have to much extra stuff to make the plug work. Glow beats it for the most perfect of minimal design.

[Chris Walby]

Simon,

I have only been involve in this hobby for 5 years so know nothing of all that has happened previously.

Looking at clubs, events and demise of LMS there is one significant factor...the vast majority of modellers are old and getting older by the year!

For the hobby to survive and includes IC then the future lies with brining youngsters into the hobby be it electric and/or IC.

PS - I noticed somewhere it mentioned the largest number of new members currently are "born again" middle ages modellers returning to the hobby. While this might make the numbers look good perhaps we should be measuring the average age of membership year on year and the percentage of under 24 year old members to see the true picture.

IMHO the only people/companies left are those that want to be in the hobby or are ultra completive to survive in an ever shrinking market.

Regards Mr Dodo (but enjoying ic and electric until it gets legislated out).

[Former Member]

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[ChrisB]

I read a post saying that IC engines are unreliable and aggrovation. When I started flying back in the early 1990's you were guaranteed a deadstick every session from anything other than on OS or Webra. Now, glow engines are far more reliable.

I hardly ever have to touch the settings of any of my glow engines. Once they are set, thats it. I know people who are constantly fiddling with the needle and always try to get the last little bit of power out of an engine and usually end up going for a walk.

[kevin b]

Posted by Percy Verance on 03/11/2018 21:49:24:

Chris

In the decades I've been involved in the hobby I've seen very few youngsters come into it. Those whom seem to come into it can be anything from late 20's to mid 50's. Some are returnees, others are newly coming into it. Some stick around, some don't.........

I wouldn't even guess where the hobby might be in 40 or 50 years time. In any case I shan't be around to see what's happened!

Edited By Percy Verance on 03/11/2018 22:07:37

I have spent a very pleasant afternoon with one of the club's senior members instructing his 15 year old grandson how to build a mini Robot.

He enjoys flying model aircraft and is interested in how they are constructed. He now is reasonably safe with a sharp knife, knows how a saw works and has been using a covering iron (don't tell his Mum). He is now under orders to keep up his revision (GCSE's) and at the soonest opportunity we will continue with his model.

We are all guilty of complaining about the young people not being interested in doing something practical, but how many of us are prepared to do something about it. A large number of parents don't seem interested and the education system certainly isn't. We (my generation) all learnt skills at a young age and many of us then packed them away for years while we got on with "life", but these young people are struggling to have the opportunity.

Ok, I'll get off my soap box now.

[Nigel R]

ChrisB.

Add irvine to that list. And enya. At least.

Generally they all worked pretty good if left alone after setting up.

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

You can add my MDS38 and 58 (flew that one today) to that list - not all lived up to the Metal Door Stop reputation...

I've actually had more problems from flaking chrome cylinder plating on OS engines than faults with any other!

Generally, a properly installed, bedded in and set up IC engine should run happily for as long as there's fuel in the tank.

P.S. The MDS58 referred to was given to me by a frustrated owner before it was put in the club bin.  After some setting up and running it was put into a model where it performed wonderfully with a very noticeable improvement over the Irvine 46 previously fitted.  Dire predictions of losing the model due to fitting an MDS were proved true though...elevator flutter during a low pass, rather than the predicted dead sticks, putting it nose first into the runway with terminal consequences, breaking the silencer mountings on the engine.  A modified strap on silencer cured that one...

 

Edited By Martin Harris on 03/11/2018 23:17:19

[Former Member]

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