Brian Dickinson 3 Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 Hi my name is Brian and i am a keen maker of things. My interest for the last -too long to mention has been based around steam models and model engineering. I have been interested in and made cars boats and a single aircraft namely a soarcerer which came as a free plan which i was given. I used to watch pilots flying their gliders on a hill near me but never had a go. I am thinking of buying the lazer cut kit for the above and then have a bash at flying it. Are the kits from the lazer cut suppliers ok to work from and how much do you have to add to get it finished? Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 Hi Brian and welcome... The Soarcerer seems a very straightforward model but it would be best to try to get in contact with some local flyers as model flying isn't quite as easy as it may look. Some basic instruction/intervention might avoid early disappointment! Depending on the supplier, laser cut packs don't normally include the sheet wood for skinning and strip wood that doesn't need laser cutting. They do take the hard or repetitive work out of cutting out formers and wing ribs for example. You will also need to supply your own covering and such things as hinges and control horns. Search out some of the build threads on this forum for tips and ideas about building. This link would be a good start! Your first requirement will be to knock up a flat/true building board... Edited By Martin Harris on 28/07/2019 18:36:50 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Fry Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 A Chris Foss Phase 4 may be a easier introduction. It's a kit, from a proper kit maker. It will assemble into a flyer, without too much hassle, to a maker of other models. Get some instruction. Chucking it off a slope, is the easier bit, landing is difficult. Dont do the £100 a flight route. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CARPERFECT Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 Hello Brian, from Holmfirth. Paul from Brighouse here. You are very close to The Huddersfield club. and we have a few slope sites that we chuck gliders off. [email protected] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatMc Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 Posted by Don Fry on 28/07/2019 18:48:48: A Chris Foss Phase 4 may be a easier introduction. It's a kit, from a proper kit maker. It will assemble into a flyer, without too much hassle, to a maker of other models. Get some instruction. Chucking it off a slope, is the easier bit, landing is difficult. Dont do the £100 a flight route. Don, are you confusing the names Phase 6 & Wot 4 when you mean the Middle Phase ? IMO the Soarcerer is a better first sloper to learn with & given Brian's model making background I suspect he won't have much problem building one from the plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Dickinson 3 Posted July 28, 2019 Author Share Posted July 28, 2019 Thank you for the replies. All encouraging. Hi Paul, from my house I can see if anyone is flying at Tinkers, the rights of way I only just found out about. If I see anyone I will be popping up to have a look and a chat. I intend starting the build in the autumn when the nights draw in. In the meantime I am collecting all the bits and pieces. There is a shop local to me in Honley so I should be ok with getting it all. The building board is a good idea, I have one with a wooden yacht on it but it's not ready for taking off just yet so I will make another one. Something I can press pins into this time. Ply is a bit hard, does anyone have a surface material recommendation? An old late friend told me to wax the surface with a candle so that the glue does not stick, or maybe he meant the drawing? I can not remember. When i have something tangible I will post again. Cheers Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Gorham_ Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 Nothing wrong with the old Sorcerer. It's a classically designed model with proven flying abilities and it's tough too. Just what you need for flying from the slope. Given your ability you will have no problems with it. Lots of people use a kitchen worktop topped with a sheet of plasterboard to build on. The plasterboard takes pins nicely and the worktop helps the whole thing to stay true. When the plasterboard gets a bit manky you simply take it off and throw away and replace with a new bit. The waxcandle trick is an old one. You rub it on the plan to stop bits of model sticking to it. You can also use cling film or a company called SLEC sell plan protector film. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Fry Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 Quite right Pat, senile confusion, Middle Phase it should have been. Plasterboard makes a good pin friendly building board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuban8 Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 Hi Brian, welcome to the hobby. So much to learn and so many pitfalls to make when starting out, so profit from our mistakes here, pointless to make them over and over again. The only advice I'll give is that if you build your own model from scratch (unassisted) , glider or powered, and actually get it to what appears to be flying condition, your chances of crashing it either through inexperience on the sticks or an error in building, a mistake in radio installation or final adjustment, is pretty much guaranteed. You mention "having a bash at flying it"..........I hate to say it to someone who's clearly an experienced modeller in other areas, but I fear there'll be more bash than flying! All is not lost,............as was said, get to know some local flyers - even if you complete the model unaided, get an experienced chap to cast their eye over it, there's bound to be something that shows up that'll need attention or fettling, might just be trivial, might save you the loss of a model within the first few seconds. Have them test fly it to sort out any snags when in the air. Imagine what horrors you could find if I presented a live steam model to you that I'd built, because I've absolutely no previous experience in that area Best of luck, we're all very happy to help as much as we can. Edited By Cuban8 on 29/07/2019 12:03:53 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Dickinson 3 Posted July 29, 2019 Author Share Posted July 29, 2019 Thank you once again for the help and advice. Plaster is board a good one. I had thought about kingspan as well. Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piers Bowlan Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 Is this the model Brian? Looks pretty ideal if it is. If you can build model boats you should find this pretty easy. Just check the C of G is where it is shown on the plan and follow the recommended control deflections - if there are any. Choose a day with light winds and test glide over long grass, like they always used to say! I always use cellophane to cover my plans, available from art shops - or florists! No doubt you have a cutting mat to cut the balsa on. Edited By Piers Bowlan on 29/07/2019 20:21:21 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Collinson Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 Sundeala has some advocates, as do cork tiles. Plasterboard could get messy if there’s no suitable man cave though it’s undoubtedly the cheapest option. BTC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Dickinson 3 Posted July 29, 2019 Author Share Posted July 29, 2019 Hi Piers, yes thats the model. There is a smaller version as well on a web site called outer zone. I think though I will go with the larger version basing it on a more stable platform. I had looked at the lazer cut kit but I think I prefer to cut my own. Bruce your probably right plaster board will be messy as I will be doing it in the house. I like the cork idea and I have a load of that as I use it for boiler insulation. Whats the best budget radio radio gear around hundred to one fifty mark? Brian Edited By Brian Dickinson 3 on 29/07/2019 21:14:09 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatMc Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 Brian, the full size Soarcerer plan + introduction article can be downloaded from OZ. Also a set of laser cut ribs + dihedral braces are available here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Dickinson 3 Posted July 29, 2019 Author Share Posted July 29, 2019 Wow. Thanks for the link to the ribs. Ordered a set. I have the plans Thank you. Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Fry Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 Brian, just about all radio is good, just personal preferences, and importantly, how the transmitter fits your hand. But I would say, they are all computer driven, menus to navigate, sparse written instructions. If you choose a route whereby someone has an input to teach, that someone might be happier if they were familiar with your transmitter. Also, a good teaching tool is the buddy system, your transmitter is a slave to the instructors transmitter. Much better than handing a single transmitter back and forth. But the transmitters have to be compatible. So I would wait and see what others are using locally to you. Edited By Don Fry on 30/07/2019 07:17:06 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piers Bowlan Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 Whats the best budget radio radio gear around hundred to one fifty mark? Brian, if you ask 10 club members that question you will usually get 12 answers. If you ask it on this forum, it usually ends in a war! I don't know the answer but when you find out, let me know! By the way, are you going to fit ailerons or stick with the standard rudder/elevator version? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken anderson. Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 welcome from me brian... ken anderson..ne..1..welcome dept. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuban8 Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 Posted by Piers Bowlan on 30/07/2019 07:30:28: Whats the best budget radio radio gear around hundred to one fifty mark? Brian, if you ask 10 club members that question you will usually get 12 answers. If you ask it on this forum, it usually ends in a war! I don't know the answer but when you find out, let me know! By the way, are you going to fit ailerons or stick with the standard rudder/elevator version? Radio? See what your new flying buddies are using and decide what suits you best, and which you like the look and feel of. Don't be tempted to under purchase to save a few quid now, but then regret not having some useful extras as you build more complex models later on. If you have a choice, go for the aileron wing or as it's a simple structure, perhaps build one of each and see how you get on.I always found R/E models as slope soarers to be quite restricted in what you could do with them in a good blow as they seemed quite sluggish so better suited to lighter wind conditions. Horses for courses and depends on the the pilot's expectations. Building boards? I still use my ancient South Yorks Models building board/jig faced with cork tiles.It's really just a sheet of dense contiboard with a couple of lengths of 2X1s screwed to the underside and a series of holes for the jig brackets. Must be 30 years old now and still flat and true. A building jig makes life so much easier. Seems an extravagance, (a couple of quid for a big sheet) but the stuff sold as 'plan protector' (get mine from Balsa Cabin) really does work so much better than normal polythene sheet or whatever else I've tried in the past. Don't know what it is, might be my imagination but it does have an extra slippery feel to it. Epoxy, PVA and Cyano doesn't adhere to it - although thin Cyano will wick its way through pin holes and stick to the plan if you're not careful - to be expected though. Edited By Cuban8 on 30/07/2019 09:48:12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piers Bowlan Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 Personally I wouldn't use polythene but nothing sticks to cellophane, here for example. The model should fly well with just rudder/elevator but if you did decide to fit ailerons you could reduce (or eliminate ) the amount of dihedral. Most rudder elevator models usually feature quite a large amount of dihedral which does not work so well with an ailerons wing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuban8 Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 Posted by Piers Bowlan on 30/07/2019 10:38:19: Personally I wouldn't use polythene but nothing sticks to cellophane, here for example. The model should fly well with just rudder/elevator but if you did decide to fit ailerons you could reduce (or eliminate ) the amount of dihedral. Most rudder elevator models usually feature quite a large amount of dihedral which does not work so well with an ailerons wing. Amazing what you can find out **LINK** Agree, Polythene is hopeless as a plan protector. This does exactly what it claims and only a couple of quid......**LINK** Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Dickinson 3 Posted July 30, 2019 Author Share Posted July 30, 2019 Thank you for the advice. I will be make no the model as a two channel as per the build. My hands have bad arthritis and will struggle with two axis movement. The plan protection methods are much better than my candle wax, I will order some from your link thank you. Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Dickinson 3 Posted July 30, 2019 Author Share Posted July 30, 2019 I have been studying the plans. There are holes in some of the fuselage formers that say keep as small as possible, but do not foul the push rods. Is there a better way to do this than push rods? Would small carbon fibre rods be better or lighter? Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Gorham_ Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 As a general rule for a first build it is better to follow the plans. Don't start upgrading or overthinking things. Hard balsa pushrods are fine and nice and lightweight down the rear of the fuselage. And cheaper than carbon fibre. As I said previously, the Sorcerer is a proven, classical design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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