Latest CAA Update

[Chris Berry]

I've just seen the latest update on the BMFA website. It seems registration is inevitable.

I see there is an option to do the test in hard copy, posted out and then returned in hard copy. Although it delays the process in terms of knowing if you've passed and are successful in registering, maybe a hard copy is i the best way for all of us to do it?

We are being law abiding and following the rules. It just means the powers that be have to issue the best part of 40'000 hard copies and process them all upon their return and then notify every individual if they have passed or not

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[kc]

DRES is obviously going to be pronounced " Dross " which correctly implies what it is!

Lets all apply for the hard copy and let the dept concerned do the massive amount of paperwork - much better than revealing your email address to them by doing it online.

[Michael Barclay]

Posted by kc on 23/08/2019 14:52:44:

DRES is obviously going to be pronounced " Dross " which correctly implies what it is!

Lets all apply for the hard copy and let the dept concerned do the massive amount of paperwork - much better than revealing your email address to them by doing it online.

Good idea except that the increased cost will no doubt be passed on to us next year.

[Jason-I]

I have just read the article on the BMFA website and found several things quite alarming.

 

One thing I hadn't previously considered was the requirement for external markings on our aircraft - no way, no how will I ever be putting any non-scale markings on the outside of my prized scale spitfire!

 

The BMFA also suggest that insurance may be invalid if we do not register as an operator. That's a deal breaker for me. I intend to register as a pilot only, not as an operator (On principal I refuse to pay the operator fee to support their extravagant scheme, where somebody must be profiteering on a grand scale).

 

I am a country member of the BMFA. I joined for the benefit of the insurance and the belief that the organisation would be standing up for us as a hobby. However, if the insurance is no longer valid and the BMFA has no influence on the laws that govern us, what is the point of being a member?

 

It's not like the registration fee would buy us some more airspace. We have been effectively relegated to flying over private land in the middle of nowhere anyway - and now we have very tough altitude restrictions on our remote locations to boot - and they expect us to pay a tax to fly in this tiny bit of airspace that is effectively owned by the landowner anyway.

 

I won't be paying the model tax, and I wont be renewing my BMFA membership if this invalidates my insurance. I will still fly, and I will register as a pilot and take the useless test (BY POST ONLY).

 

 

 

Edited By Jason-I on 23/08/2019 18:27:01

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

I don't believe rants like this are of any benefit to the efforts to portray us as responsible members of the aviation community. I would also hesitate to write off the efforts of the BMFA* behind the scenes - its members are already exempt from the general height limit - something you'll lose if you go it alone and I understand that they are still in negotiation with the powers that be.

I've yet to see any specific requirements for numbering other than it should be readable from a fairly close distance (which I can't recall) - a label inside the canopy for flying might well satisfy the requirements - alternatively, why not use magnetic mounts to attach a label somewhere unobtrusive for flight?

Feel free to fly uninsured and risk your house and bank balance (unless the law changes to require insurance in the future) - personally, I will continue to support the BMFA and respond to any further requests for assistance they may make.

* ...and LMA, SAA and FPVUK

[Chris Berry]

Posted by Jason-I on 23/08/2019 18:25:53:

I have just read the article on the BMFA website and found several things quite alarming.

One thing I hadn't previously considered was the requirement for external markings on our aircraft - no way, no how will I ever be putting any non-scale markings on the outside of my prized scale spitfire!

The BMFA also suggest that insurance may be invalid if we do not register as an operator. That's a deal breaker for me. I intend to register as a pilot only, not as an operator (On principal I refuse to pay the operator fee to support their extravagant scheme, where somebody must be profiteering on a grand scale).

I am a country member of the BMFA. I joined for the benefit of the insurance and the belief that the organisation would be standing up for us as a hobby. However, if the insurance is no longer valid and the BMFA has no influence on the laws that govern us, what is the point of being a member?

It's not like the registration fee would buy us some more airspace. We have been effectively relegated to flying over private land in the middle of nowhere anyway - and now we have very tough altitude restrictions on our remote locations to boot - and they expect us to pay a tax to fly in this tiny bit of airspace that is effectively owned by the landowner anyway.

I won't be paying the model tax, and I wont be renewing my BMFA membership if this invalidates my insurance. I will still fly, and I will register as a pilot and take the useless test (BY POST ONLY).

Edited By Jason-I on 23/08/2019 18:27:01

Not sure what’s alarming? Register as an operator, do a test with your eyes shut, pay the price of a lipo and put a number on your plane in an appropriate location. I’ve not read anything about size or location, so could be 5mm high and be hidden behind the fuel tank.

Irrespective of insurance, if you want to fly in a BMFA,LMA or SAA club, you need to a member of one of those associations. No member no club!

Im damn sure some little form and test isn’t going to stop me flying, as it’s been a big part of my life since I was 11 and I’m now nearly 40.

30 flyable planes, a workshop and modelling van, I’m damned if I’m stopping, although I’ll happily acquire some cheap equipment if people are giving up and want to sell for the right price, although I don’t want the nose, as it might upset the face!,

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[GONZO]

Jason-I

I think you will be one of an initial BMFA leavers group which will, in the second year, become an avalanche. This will no doubt be aided by the inevitable increase in the annual model tax registration fee. May I also suggest that just registering as a pilot gets your details on the system and makes you a 'person of interest' if you don't also register as an operator or do not have an employer taking the 'operator' role.

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Jason-I]

Posted by Martin Harris on 23/08/2019 18:50:24:

I don't believe rants like this are of any benefit to the efforts to portray us as responsible members of the aviation community. I would also hesitate to write off the efforts of the BMFA* behind the scenes - its members are already exempt from the general height limit - something you'll lose if you go it alone and I understand that they are still in negotiation with the powers that be.

I've yet to see any specific requirements for numbering other than it should be readable from a fairly close distance (which I can't recall) - a label inside the canopy for flying might well satisfy the requirements - alternatively, why not use magnetic mounts to attach a label somewhere unobtrusive for flight?

Feel free to fly uninsured and risk your house and bank balance (unless the law changes to require insurance in the future) - personally, I will continue to support the BMFA and respond to any further requests for assistance they may make.

* ...and LMA, SAA and FPVUK

Unfortunately, when governments introduce unfair taxes, it inevitably leads to lawlessness. If we all just roll over, play dead and pay this unfair tax, then the only way it will ever go is up. We have all tried letters to our MP's, the CAA and the Dft - they are not listening. We have all sent complaint letters about their lack of response and they are not even entering these into their complaints system let alone dealing with them properly.Talking with our wallets is therefore the only other course of action left to us.

If this truly was about safety and security, then registration would be free.

The BMFA seems to have accepted defeat. I would quite happily support a rise in membership fees to cover a legal challenge to this unfair tax, however, I have seen nothing from the BMFA that they intend to take any such stance. 'Lets wait and see' is not good enough. I joined an association for the protection it offered. I see no protection.

Insurance is not a legal requirement, yet I choose to take it. I have always been law abiding, but when something is fundamentally unfair, I will not put up with it.

I am quite happy to risk no insurance and no operator registration when flying in the middle of nowhere. I'd rather that than line the pockets of some profiteering fat cat company.

[Jason-I]

Posted by GONZO on 23/08/2019 19:18:41:

Jason-I

I think you will be one of an initial BMFA leavers group which will, in the second year, become an avalanche. This will no doubt be aided by the inevitable increase in the annual model tax registration fee. May I also suggest that just registering as a pilot gets your details on the system and makes you a 'person of interest' if you don't also register as an operator or do not have an employer taking the 'operator' role.

I'm happy to be a 'person of interest' to prove that I have no objection to registration, just not willing to pay for the gold plated completely OTT registration system. I am taking 'my stand' by doing this. 

I think you are right about the BMFA losing members over this. I would love to support them in direct action, but they don't seem to be going that way.

Edited By Jason-I on 23/08/2019 19:32:58

[Jason-I]

One of the things I take particular umbridge to is the whole operator vs pilot thing. Hobbyists will effectively be subsidising large drone operating companies in the future. How in any way shape or form is this fair?

Edited By Jason-I on 23/08/2019 19:36:43

[Jason-I]

Posted by Chris Berry on 23/08/2019 19:05:38:

 

Im damn sure some little form and test isn’t going to stop me flying, as it’s been a big part of my life since I was 11 and I’m now nearly 40.

30 flyable planes, a workshop and modelling van, I’m damned if I’m stopping, although I’ll happily acquire some cheap equipment if people are giving up and want to sell for the right price, although I don’t want the nose, as it might upset the face!,

I won't be stopping flying, just not paying the unfair tax.

Edited By Jason-I on 23/08/2019 19:41:48

[Chris Berry]

Posted by Jason-I on 23/08/2019 19:41:21:

Posted by Chris Berry on 23/08/2019 19:05:38:

Im damn sure some little form and test isn’t going to stop me flying, as it’s been a big part of my life since I was 11 and I’m now nearly 40.

30 flyable planes, a workshop and modelling van, I’m damned if I’m stopping, although I’ll happily acquire some cheap equipment if people are giving up and want to sell for the right price, although I don’t want the nose, as it might upset the face!,

I won't be stopping flying, just not paying the unfair tax.

Edited By Jason-I on 23/08/2019 19:41:48

Where will you be flying then and what insurance will you have, that’s assuming you want to be covered if a car or property gets damaged?

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

No axe to grind with the BMFA myself, 100% sure they gave it their all on our behalf, I'll not be deserting them either.

[Jason-I]

Posted by Chris Berry on 23/08/2019 19:46:47:

Posted by Jason-I on 23/08/2019 19:41:21:

Posted by Chris Berry on 23/08/2019 19:05:38:

Im damn sure some little form and test isn’t going to stop me flying, as it’s been a big part of my life since I was 11 and I’m now nearly 40.

30 flyable planes, a workshop and modelling van, I’m damned if I’m stopping, although I’ll happily acquire some cheap equipment if people are giving up and want to sell for the right price, although I don’t want the nose, as it might upset the face!,

I won't be stopping flying, just not paying the unfair tax.

Edited By Jason-I on 23/08/2019 19:41:48

Where will you be flying then and what insurance will you have, that’s assuming you want to be covered if a car or property gets damaged?

For some bizarre reason insurance is not a legal requirement. As I fly over the sea, I am not too worried about damaging any cars or property!

[Jason-I]

Posted by john stones 1 on 23/08/2019 19:56:39:

100% sure they gave it their all on our behalf, I'll not be deserting them either.

 

I disagree. Where was the legal challenge?

Edited By Jason-I on 23/08/2019 20:02:18

[Jason-I]

Gina Miller successfully took the government to court over parliamentary process. Why can't the BMFA do the same over this unfair tax?

[Jason-I]

Apologies all. Don't mean to rant. Just got a bee in me bonnet about this tonight!

Edited By Jason-I on 23/08/2019 20:09:42

[Levanter]

Jason

Do you have any idea how much it would cost to mount a legal challenge against the government and how little chance it would have with such a small lobby such as ourselves.

I for one would like to distance myself from your views as aired on this forum and it would be a great disservice to other aero modelers if your attitude means an early prosecution is connected with a model aircraft and not a so-called drone.

Are there no boats in your part of the sea?

Levanter

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Posted by Jason-I on 23/08/2019 20:01:42:

Posted by john stones 1 on 23/08/2019 19:56:39:

100% sure they gave it their all on our behalf, I'll not be deserting them either.

I disagree. Where was the legal challenge?

Edited By Jason-I on 23/08/2019 20:02:18

I figure they made a judgement call on the possibilities, happy with their efforts myself, easy sorting stuff on a forum, being at the sharp ends somewhat harder.

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

Have I missed an announcement that the BMFA have given up?

[Jason-I]

Posted by Levanter on 23/08/2019 20:16:11:

I for one would like to distance myself from your views as aired on this forum and it would be a great disservice to other aero modelers if your attitude means an early prosecution is connected with a model aircraft and not a so-called drone.

Are there no boats in your part of the sea?

Levanter

What views are those exactly? I have no issue with registration and have quite clearly stated that I intend to register as a pilot.

I am a safe and responsible pilot. I have always had insurance even though it is not a legal requirement and even though I am highly unlikely to ever need it.

The only issue I have is with the unfair tax. Are we not allowed to tackle burning injustices in our society anymore? How else do you propose we bring about a change to this unfair tax?

If I were to get prosecuted, it would not be for unsafe flying, it would not be for flying in an inappropiate location, it would not be for not being registered as a pilot and it would not be for not having my contact details clearly marked on the inside of my model. The only thing I would be prosecuted for would be for not paying the unfair model tax. Does that really make me such a bad person that you want to distance yourself from me?

[Jason-I]

Posted by Levanter on 23/08/2019 20:16:11:

Jason

Do you have any idea how much it would cost to mount a legal challenge against the government and how little chance it would have with such a small lobby such as ourselves.

Levanter

No idea, but if each member paid a £16.50 additional subscription fee to the BMFA this year, then that would give them over half a million pounds to make a start. Best to try and lose than not try at all!