Latest CAA Update

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

Posted by Andy Symons - BMFA on 29/08/2019 11:01:26:

Posted by Don Fry on 29/08/2019 10:47:32:

Andy, I accept some clubs have safety issues peculiar to the site, rights of way spring to mind. But a demonstration that a pilot can keep the toy aircraft over the dead area in front of the pilot box, and crash in safety there, is a more pertinent skill than a figure of eight. Half of the clubs in this the U.K., by your numbers, have a policy which might be hindering the acquisition and retention of new members. My personal opinion. But the points have been made. let it rest there as it's history now.

A fig 8 is a demonstration that the pilot can keep the aircraft in the correct area.

I would go much further than that Andy. The figure 8 (flown properly in anything other than flat calm) demonstrates the ability to adjust rates of turn during the manoeuvre in order to keep the figure reasonably round, adjust power to compensate for varying bank angles, correct height variations due to lift and sink encountered, demonstrate spacial awareness with the crossing point requirement, fly reasonably accurate circles in both directions and not least, show due regard to other circuit users.

I'd say that it's a splendid test of overall control, appreciation of wind effects and height awareness and is a very valuable part in both the A and (due to the more stringent requirements) B tests.

That last statement should hold a clue for A test candidates nervous about completing it correctly - there is latitude and the examiner should only be looking for a reasonable attempt with them demonstrating awareness when it's needing correction and taking the correct action even if the result is not perfection.

Edited By Martin Harris on 29/08/2019 11:56:30

[MattyB]

The DfT and CAA have zero interest in whether pilots are competent to fly a figure 8 or any of the other manoeuvres in the BMFA tests. All they are looking to ensure is that any SUAS operator has proved they understand the LEGAL requirements they must meet when operating their machines so they can take enforcement actions more easily on anyone who contravenes the revised regs.

Edited By MattyB on 29/08/2019 12:08:42

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Not sure why achievement scheme is being discussed, no clubs ever put barriers in my way, some have rules you need to abide by, the choice is yours, ours you need to demonstrate you're safe to be let loose, pretty similar to the A test, barrier ? nope just sensible precaution to protect the site and its membership, not much to ask after the years of work people have put into their clubs, your barriers learning to fly, have fun.

[Martin_K]

Posted by Steve J on 29/08/2019 11:10:03:

Posted by Martin_K on 29/08/2019 09:03:39:

There are two other locations where I would like to fly, but both require an 'A' certificate. At my own club I need the 'A' to fly solo. My interest is primarily in gliders, and building my own planes. I am currently working on a powered sport model with undercarriage to practice for, and take, the 'A'. Not how I envisaged spending my time (and money). As alluded to above, the hobby has placed this barrier to my participation, not some outside agency.

Won't the clubs let you take the Silent Flight (Electric)?

Steve

A complicated answer to a simple question. When using a public space the club is not the only party to be satisfied. The club may only exist to enable people who have traditionally flown at a site to continue so doing.

One instance is Chobham Common. From memory it is the Surrey Wildlife Trust that stipulate membership of a particular club to fly on the common. The club then has rules to keep the land manager on-side.

Additionaly clubs can become fearful. After the expansion of the Heathrow FRZ my own club's committee initially banned gliders. The imagined consequences of someone catching a thermal and going outside the field's boundary were deemed too great a risk. I am glad to report that things are a bit more relaxed now.

Another complication was my own understanding (lack of) the multitude of BMFA schemes. I may now have a better chance of negotiating alternatives.

[Martin_K]

Posted by john stones 1 on 29/08/2019 12:47:52:

Not sure why achievement scheme is being discussed, no clubs ever put barriers in my way, some have rules you need to abide by, the choice is yours, ours you need to demonstrate you're safe to be let loose, pretty similar to the A test, barrier ? nope just sensible precaution to protect the site and its membership, not much to ask after the years of work people have put into their clubs, your barriers learning to fly, have fun.

Demonstrating basic competence to a club, face to face on site, is not the barrier. Being told you cannot fly without the 'A' is the barrier. I will not say where, I still hope to get in one day.

I am having fun.

[Michael Barclay]

I see an interesting scenario developing next time someone closes an airport with a drone. How will the government respond to the press having put in place legislation to prevent it happening again?

Edited By Michael Barclay on 29/08/2019 13:29:27

[Nigel R]

Something along the lines of, they are either unregistered and therefore illegal full stop, or are registered and malicious, and therefore culpable in the eyes of the law,

[Erfolg]

Perhaps it is time to concentrate on what happens next.

We are now approaching November, where is the link to the test, how do we obtain a hard copy test?

When the test is introduced how long do we have to pass the test?

What are the actual requirements of the registration number. Perhaps a certain size, a particular font, must the numeric contrast with the models colour scheme at the place of placement?

What ever we all think, nothing said or done by us will change what the regulator is imposing.

[Denis Watkins]

The Registration Number

I read somewhere that the number is to appear on or IN the model

So long as tools are not needed to access the number

And it could even be a label on each of your batteries ! ! !

[Don Fry]

In France, requirement is;

visible from 30cm away.

Not necessarily on the outside, but "readily accessible" is what it quotes. I have one of mine on the inside of the battery hatch.

Not onerous. What you see is hacks have it written on the outside or through the canopy, all sizes down to about 3 mm letters. And scale models on the inside of hatches. A solution the BFMA might wish to push for.

Bottom line, the owner can show it if required. And a thorough searcher will find it if required

[Simon Feather]

Here is an interesting thing I've just stumbled on when looking at the Parliament "petitions" website:

**LINK**

and

**LINK**

Now does that sound at all familiar?

[GONZO]

I hate to throw a spanner in the works and upset all those straining at the leash to take the test, pay their money and get registered. But, due to proroguing of Parliament it would appear that this jolly little exercise may, at the least, be delayed. I think it unlikely that legislation on drones, not yet passed, will feature on MP's to do list this side of November 1st.

[Former Member]

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[Former Member]

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[Chris Berry]

Sadly registration is already enshrined in law. The drones bill may be delayed and that may be a saving grace is if they decide to hold off on registration until the drones bill is progressed.

As for petitions to require cyclists to register and get insurance, I'm not against that and its in a similar vein to our predicament.

[GONZO]

Don't they require the supporting legislation like the new extended police powers etc to properly implement AN(A)O 2018.

[Chris Berry]

Posted by GONZO on 29/08/2019 16:17:51:

Don't they require the supporting legislation like the new extended police powers etc to properly implement AN(A)O 2018.

You'd think so wouldn't you, but obviously not, as there are existing enforcement powers in place.

[Former Member]

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[Former Member]

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[Cuban8]

Popped out to B&Q this afternoon, and what do I find going along the road holding everyone up? An adult on one of those lethal and totally illegal Escooters. Not the first time I've seen this idiot on his rounds.

Publicity in the media over fatalities, clear information that these stupid things are illegal unless on private property and still the numpties carry on 'cos "they know better and don't tell me what to do with a toy". Familiar?

[Jason-I]

Posted by Martin_K on 29/08/2019 13:16:21:

Demonstrating basic competence to a club, face to face on site, is not the barrier. Being told you cannot fly without the 'A' is the barrier. I will not say where, I still hope to get in one day.

I am having fun.

I have an issue with the A test too. I am a country member of the BMFA and not part of a club and consequently have never taken the A test. Recently I was hoping to attend and fly at the RCM&E fly in. However, despite flying model aircraft safely on and off for over 30 years and being a member of the BMFA and a subscriber to RCM&E, I would have been unable to fly at the event as only A cert holders were permitted. Therefore I didn't bother attending.

[Former Member]

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[Alan Gorham_]

Posted by Jason-I on 29/08/2019 18:47:48:

Posted by Martin_K on 29/08/2019 13:16:21:

Demonstrating basic competence to a club, face to face on site, is not the barrier. Being told you cannot fly without the 'A' is the barrier. I will not say where, I still hope to get in one day.

I am having fun.

I have an issue with the A test too. I am a country member of the BMFA and not part of a club and consequently have never taken the A test. Recently I was hoping to attend and fly at the RCM&E fly in. However, despite flying model aircraft safely on and off for over 30 years and being a member of the BMFA and a subscriber to RCM&E, I would have been unable to fly at the event as only A cert holders were permitted. Therefore I didn't bother attending.

This old trope. You don't need to be a member of a club to take an A test. You just contact the BMFA and get the details of your local Area Acheivement Scheme co-ordinator and they will arrange for an examiner to either visit your site or you visit their site to take the test. If you were in a club that had an examiner you'd still have to contact the examiner and arrange a test and if your club didn't have an examiner you'd have to contact the scheme coordinator anyway.

[Jason-I]

Posted by Alan Gorham_ on 29/08/2019 20:27:32:

This old trope. You don't need to be a member of a club to take an A test. You just contact the BMFA and get the details of your local Area Acheivement Scheme co-ordinator and they will arrange for an examiner to either visit your site or you visit their site to take the test. If you were in a club that had an examiner you'd still have to contact the examiner and arrange a test and if your club didn't have an examiner you'd have to contact the scheme coordinator anyway.

The point is, I have no desire to take the test, yet some take it as a requirement to fly rather that just a personal achievement.....

[Martin_K]

Posted by Steve J on 29/08/2019 19:16:01:

I would suggest practicing the SF(E) 'A' and then getting in touch with the area achievement scheme co-ordinator to get it done......

Steve

Steve, that is a helpful suggestion. Thanks. It would get me back to thinking about the sort of flying that inspired me to take up aero modelling, rather than a half-hearted attempt to embrace power, runways, and stunts.