Upgrading Windows7 to Win10 for free

[Martin_K]

Posted by Jon - Laser Engines on 25/01/2020 09:41:59:

Still, as i said before the whole linux issue is beyond the original scope of the thread.

The first post in the thread included;

Posted by kc on 12/01/2020 17:58:53:

Of course you need a computer with a good enough spec to cope ....

To cope with Windows 10 that is.

A Linux based distribution can be configured to run snappily on old and low specification hardware, which is the relevance to this thread. Yes it takes expertise but the software is free.

[Alex Ferguson 2]

It seems some are lucky.

Note, this is a thread about the options of updating from Win7, Linux is one of them and so is buying an Apple.

The problem instance I'm using was a computer bought with Win7 installed and used without any problems for a few years. Win10 free update was available and recommended by Microsoft. This was followed by a year of every Microsoft auto update causing problems. I suspect if I hadn't been available to sort things there would have been hundreds of dollars of commercial IT support needed.

The final indignity of wiping everything and reverting to Win7 because of Microsoft's poor testing methods was the final straw.

How does an ordinary user know that they can't trust Microsoft? Why would they think that you shouldn't trust Microsoft's updates and never allow them?

Yes, Win XP worked and still works for those who still use it.

As for Linux Mint. Burnt as an .iso on a USB stick and the stick being first boot source you get a running system. We used this with a Netbook when travelling one year for security. On the stick will be a complete system, browser Firefox and LibreOffice plus a number of other programmes. Items can be saved to the computer's hard disk. One icon on the desktop says "Install". Going to that it takes you through a reasonably simple installation process usually allowing dual booting so you still have the original Windows available.

[kc]

Well we have covered updating to Win 10 with some helpful info from lots of knowledgeable people so I think it's OK to consider Linux as an option instead. But Win 10 is working well for me.

If one could just go out and buy a USB stick with Linux Mint on it and stick it in an existing Windows computer to try out Linux as a dual boot system then I would try it and so would others i expect. But you can't just go and buy one can you?

[Gary Manuel]

kc - instructions here. You probably already have a suitable USB stick. All required files freely available.

Let us know how you get on. I might have a go.

Edited By Gary Manuel on 26/01/2020 13:01:30

[Dickw]

Posted by Gary Manuel on 26/01/2020 12:57:52:

kc - instructions here. You probably already have a suitable USB stick. All required files freely available.

Let us know how you get on. I might have a go.

Edited By Gary Manuel on 26/01/2020 13:01:30

I followed that link and downloaded Linux but gave up after a further 10 minutes going round in circles trying to work out how to "verify the inetergity of the download" as instructed.

Dick

[Gary Manuel]

I see what you mean Dick. Not as simple as it first appears then. I think I'll stick with XP!

[kc]

I will also wait until it's proven it's a safe site .........

It would be surprising if there wasn't a supplier of USB sticks already loaded.

[Alex Ferguson 2]

The previous site suggestion from Gary Manuel has Etcher as the Linux version to use. I've not used it and suggest Mint with the Cinnamon desktop.

Go to -
https://linuxmint.com/

Go to the download tab

Download Cinnamon 64 bit version -
https://linuxmint.com/edition.php?id=274

This should download a 64 bit version of the Linux Mint .iso

From the previous site mentioned by Gary Manuel -

In Windows (DVD method) -

Right-click the ISO file and select Burn disk image.

To make sure the ISO was burned without any errors, select Verify disc after burning.

Note - to a DVD you are burning it, not copying it.

Otherwise follow the USB stick instructions.

I've only loaded / setup 10 computers from my latest stick during December so it does work, they all go OK.

[Gary Manuel]

Posted by Alex Ferguson 2 on 26/01/2020 19:56:10:

The previous site suggestion from Gary Manuel has Etcher as the Linux version to use. I've not used it and suggest Mint with the Cinnamon desktop.

Go to -
https://linuxmint.com/

Go to the download tab

Download Cinnamon 64 bit version -
https://linuxmint.com/edition.php?id=274

This should download a 64 bit version of the Linux Mint .iso

From the previous site mentioned by Gary Manuel -

In Windows (DVD method) -

Right-click the ISO file and select Burn disk image.

To make sure the ISO was burned without any errors, select Verify disc after burning.

Note - to a DVD you are burning it, not copying it.

Otherwise follow the USB stick instructions.

I've only loaded / setup 10 computers from my latest stick during December so it does work, they all go OK.

Alex

Etcher isn't a version of Linux. It's the software recommended by Linuxmint for creating a bootable USB stick, which is what kc asked for. The source of the ISO image is exactly the same as the one you used (choice of 32 or 64 bit Cinnamon, Mint or xfce).

I note that you have not verified or authenticated your ISO image after downloading but have just burnt it directly to DVD (your burn verification just compares the ISO with the burnt image without verifying that the ISO is OK). I'm not sure how important this is, but Linuxmint say the following:

"It is important to verify the integrity and authenticity of your ISO image.

The integrity check confirms that your ISO image was properly downloaded and that your local file is an exact copy of the file present on the download servers. An error during the download could result in a corrupted file and trigger random issues during the installation.

The authenticity check confirms that the ISO image you downloaded was signed by Linux Mint, and thus that it isn’t a modified or malicious copy made by somebody else."

This is where Dickw had trouble and I decided it wasn't worth the effort.

[Peter Jenkins]

Hi kc

Another success as I have now, finally, managed to get Win 10 only my laptop! I ought to explain the 2 big problems I experienced and how, after a great deal of wasted time, found the answer to my problems on YouTube!

The first issue was that my newly purchased SSD drive would not show up on my File Manager page. The BT Helpdesk failed on this one! If you are in the same position, fear not, but go to YouTube by clicking here. This is such a simple fix as you can watch the video, pause it, do the action and then carry on to the next one. The SSD was immediately visible in File Manager.

The other problem was much more of an issue. After 4 goes of downloading from the MS site and 2 of using the Win 10 disk I had bought I was really cheesed off as eventually the whole program download failed at exactly the same place - when 46% of the Updating Software function was running! The BT Helpdesk ran a mile from offering help on this one! Again, finding the right YouTube tutorial sorted the problem. Basically, you stop the Windows updater when it hangs and then restart it! Watch how to do it here.

Both fixes took me about 10 mins from start to finish - and I was deeply out of my depth doing this!

Hope this will help those of you who have hit the same problem.

[Keith Berriman]

I found that after the Window 10 saga some years ago that I needed to Optimise the system and now find after any updates an Optimise puts everything back where it should be

[Peter Christy]

Re: "Checking the integrity of the downloaded image"

One thing you need to understand about Linux is that, compared to windows, it is paranoid about security! The check process detailed in the links above is, frankly, overkill! What it is doing is carrying out a 2 part check on the integrity. One part is comparing a checksum of the downloaded iso against the supplied checksum (in a text file), and also checking (via gpg) that the supplied checksum hasn't been tampered with!

If you've been using windows for any length of time, you are clearly not that worried about security ( ), so don't worry about the gpg bit!

In windows, simply open a command prompt, and navigate to the folder where you have stored your iso image. Then type the following command:

CertUtil -hashfile filename.iso SHA256

replacing "filename" with the name of your iso file.

This may take several minutes, depending on how fast your machine is, so chill for a bit!

Eventually, windows will spit out a long string of characters that should be the same as in the SHA256 text file that you downloaded. If the two match, you are good to go.

In truth, you only really need to check the first and last four characters, not the whole lot. If the first 4 and last 4 match, and the rest look about right, then that's good enough.

If it doesn't match, you have a corrupted download, and will need to download again - a very rare event.

I've just tried this on an old machine of mine, that still has a windows install on it. Windows hasn't been booted for ages, and I'd forgotten just how slow it was! But the above procedure worked straight away, although it took a while to calculate the checksum of the iso.

Hope this helps!

--

Pete

[Dickw]

Posted by Peter Christy on 27/01/2020 10:33:33:

Re: "Checking the integrity of the downloaded image"

...............

Eventually, windows will spit out a long string of characters that should be the same as in the SHA256 text file that you downloaded. If the two match, you are good to go.

..........................

Pete

OK - for the sake of completeness I have to ask - what SHA256 text file? Where do I find it?

Not found one in the .iso downlload yet, and nothing else was downloaded.

Dick

[Gary Manuel]

Available HERE dickw

[Dickw]

Posted by Gary Manuel on 27/01/2020 14:37:17:

Available HERE dickw

Thanks Gary that's great:-

First step is:-

" If you are using Windows, following this tutorial: How to verify the ISO image on Windows. "

Follow that link and it takes you to a page which begins:-

"1. First follow the steps in the "Preparation" section of **LINK**

That link takes you back to the page you just came from.

I can see whay people like Linux - it's such a good game

Dick

[Tony Harrison 2]

Posted by Peter Christy on 27/01/2020 10:33:33:

...

If you've been using windows for any length of time, you are clearly not that worried about security...

--

Pete

 

Er, Peter, unless I've misunderstood you, this is a bit OTT! I've used Windows for yonks and security has always been my watchword. I pay for the best, currently using Kaspersky, and (touch wood) have never experienced any virus infection or other invasion of my system. I know your tech background and clearly it fits well with your Linux expertise - but the very great majority of folk do not share this expertise and would not be at home with Linux and the highly techy steps needed to use and understand it...

Linux is very much for the minority. Windows works well for vast numbers of people - the great majority of whom will never experience security issues, especially if they apply common sense and/or use quality AV software - as opposed to free stuff. You get what you pay for, in software as with everything else.

Flying soon, getting out to the field? Today's little hailstorm was not encouraging, but it would be good to visit the field again. I have a Bixler ready to try out...

Best, Tony

Edited By Tony Harrison 2 on 27/01/2020 19:55:19

[Alex Ferguson 2]

Posted by Tony Harrison 2 on 27/01/2020 19:53:50:

Linux is very much for the minority. Windows works well for vast numbers of people - the great majority of whom will never experience security issues, especially if they apply common sense and/or use quality AV software - as opposed to free stuff. You get what you pay for, in software as with everything else.

Flying soon, getting out to the field? Today's little hailstorm was not encouraging, but it would be good to visit the field again. I have a Bixler ready to try out...

Best, Tony

I expect most of the forum readers are using Linux - via their Android smart phones. These have a totally different operating method from a laptop/desktop but how many say, "We can't learn that."

Yes I've been slack and not ever done a verification in the last 2 decades, simply downloaded and installed, possibly 3 dozen computers.

As for difficult to use, how can a long time Windows user sit down one day at a Linux Mint installation (Windows had destroyed itself totally) and simply carry on doing her computer work without instructions? How? Why? Because it looks so much like the Windows she had been using, browsers and other items as usual in the task bar and simply click and they go - as usual.

Questions? Yes. Often have questions and they are all related to jobs that would have raised the same questions Windows or Linux and with the same answers.

Get what you pay for? Nothing but problems with Windows 10. Nothing but problems with a commercial accounting programme too (another story there) and no problems with free software because if it gave problems no one would use it. If you pay money you struggle to use it (not all but too many) because you put out money. Have you paid for Firefox or Chrome? No. Did you paid for Windows Explorer and Edge. Yes. Do many use them? No.

Bixler, must take it flying again soon. I turned mine into a twin and convinced it flies better.

[Denis Watkins]

Posted by Alex Ferguson 2 on 27/01/2020 20:18:09:

Bixler, must take it flying again soon. I turned mine into a twin and convinced it flies better.

You are right about the Bixler Twin Alex

Instead of a single motor spiralling air along the fuz,

With a twin motor mod to the wings, you get two lots of air squish over the wings

A great help at low speed

Edited By Denis Watkins on 27/01/2020 20:39:20

[Gary Manuel]

Posted by Denis Watkins on 27/01/2020 20:38:44:

Posted by Alex Ferguson 2 on 27/01/2020 20:18:09:

Bixler, must take it flying again soon. I turned mine into a twin and convinced it flies better.

You are right about the Bixler Twin Alex

Instead of a single motor spiralling air along the fuz,

With a twin motor mod to the wings, you get two lots of air squish over the wings

A great help at low speed

Edited By Denis Watkins on 27/01/2020 20:39:20

This is the most helpful post in this thread so far

[Alex Ferguson 2]

Posted by Gary Manuel on 27/01/2020 21:00:15:

Posted by Denis Watkins on 27/01/2020 20:38:44:

Posted by Alex Ferguson 2 on 27/01/2020 20:18:09:

Bixler, must take it flying again soon. I turned mine into a twin and convinced it flies better.

You are right about the Bixler Twin Alex

Instead of a single motor spiralling air along the fuz,

With a twin motor mod to the wings, you get two lots of air squish over the wings

A great help at low speed

Edited By Denis Watkins on 27/01/2020 20:39:20

This is the most helpful post in this thread so far

Should this, "Bixler twin", go in a new thread?

It might be an opposition forum but a few bits here -

https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?2567388-Bixler-gone-twin

The U/C is now much lower, more like a Hercules.

[Jon H]

This entire thread seems to be turning into a confirmation bias laden love letter to software. Some of the statements are just simply wrong.

Windows is perfectly secure if you arent an idiot about it. I also dont see all these stability/compatibility problems that keep getting mentioned either. Dealing with about 8 W10 systems on a more or less daily basis i really dont understand where all the problems are coming from. Even my parents, who were able to destroy windows 7 pc's almost weekly by installing everything web page popups told them to, have kept theirs running for 2 years without a hitch. Windows can have a meltdown just like any piece of software and i get far more irritated with problems on my android devices than my windows ones.

Linux absolutely has its place but as i have said before, this thread was aimed at the technophobe. They are not going to be running command line stuff and verifying download integrity.

[Alex Ferguson 2]

Posted by Jon - Laser Engines on 28/01/2020 08:33:16:They are not going to be running command line stuff and verifying download integrity.

Who runs command line stuff? Certainly none of the users I deal with.

A year of Win10 crashing, losing drivers every month. Why do you think I don't like it? It really depended where you were in the priority list for updates. If unfortunate and at the front of the queue you got trashed. This from a commercial outfit - just not professional. It never happens with our Linux installations.

[Peter Christy]

When I read through the posts here, I see a lot of years out-of-date misconceptions about Linux - just as most members of the public still regard model aeroplanes as "noisy, smelly things" - even when they are gliders!

Firstly, you don't *have* to carry out integrity checks on your downloaded installation files. You can just run them. But then you won't know if they've been compromised or not, just as you never know if a windows install file has been compromised or not.

Linux offers you the option. Whether you take advantage of it or not is up to you.

Secondly, Linux is a compartmemtalised system. It was designed as a multi-user, network system right from the start. Windows was originally designed as a standalone, single user system and had networking grafted on to it as an afterthought (using the TCP/IP stack from Unix, BTW - Linux' first cousin!)

Because of this compartmentalisation - each user has their own, separate workspace - if one user is careless, it won't compromise the other users on the system, or the core operating system itself. Again, this is unlike windows. To use an analogy, not since the Titanic have shipbuilders built ships that aren't split into discrete, watertight sections, so that one getting flooded doesn't compromise the whole ship.

Thirdly, while there are viruses out there that can attack Linux systems, they are few and far between, and even if one gets to your machine (highly unlikely), it can only do limited damage. There is very little anti-virus software available for Linux, because it isn't that necessary! (The best and most common one, if you really feel the need, is free and open-source, just like the operating system.)

Fourthly, kiss goodbye to de-fragging and cleaning disk drives every week or two. I know windows 10 does this (supposedly) in the background, but it still involves a lot of disk thrashing and slows the system down. Not needed on Linux.

I could go on and on, but really, the only reason windows still sells is because people have been brainwashed into believing that it is the only decent operating system out there.

It was a total kludge was it first appeared, and although a lot of its major flaws have been disguised, it remains hog-tied and bloated due to its need to be backwards compatible almost to its DOS origins.

Like castor oil, its time it was put out to grass!

Tony: Yes, Geoff and I keep looking at the weather to see when we can get out and prepare the field again. At present, its like a swamp! (OK, probably a frozen swamp this morning!) However, if we get a half decent day, we could probably take your Bixler up to the golf club site? Its a bit of a walk from the car park, but probably the best bet at present!

--

Pete

[Jon H]

Posted by Peter Christy on 28/01/2020 09:25:13:

When I read through the posts here, I see a lot of years out-of-date misconceptions

You mean like defragging every week? Crashing every week and loosing drivers?

[Peter Christy]

Just because the user isn't de-fragging, doesn't mean it isn't happening. The latest iterations of windows do it in the background. However, it is still being done - the filing systems haven't changed, due to the backward compatibility issues I alluded to - and this causes a huge performance hit when it occurs.

I keep a windows 10 partition on one machine here, though it rarely gets used. On the occasions I fire it up, although it appears to boot quickly, it then spends nearly 10 minutes "disk thrashing" before it becomes usable. Same machine with Linux boots in under a minute (biggest hold up is the BIOS, common to windows and linux) and is usable as soon as the screen appears, and NO disk thrashing!

Life is too short!

--

Pete