Do you love some of your engines so much you don't fly them?

[David Davis]

Any of you feel the same way as I do about some of your engines? Over-protective perhaps?

Let me tell you a little story. I do a fair bit of instructing and have or had, two i/c trainers and an electric foamie with which to teach beginners. One of the i/c trainers is something called a Primary 40 an eminently forgetable ARTF trainer powered by an Irvine 40, the other was a Seagull Boomerang, my favourite ARTF trainer BTW, powered by an Enya 50. This is a lovely engine and fitted with the Q silencer it sounds lovely too! The problem with teaching beginners is that you go through about five stages before they are competent to fly on their own.

To begin with you are for ever taking back control on the buddy box as their turns become spiral dives!

The second stage occurs when they are not making so many mistakes but in a ten minute flight you may have to take back control three or four times.

By the time they reach the third stage they are capable of flying basic circuits and horizontal eights but sometimes get into trouble so you have to take back control.

The fourth stage is the most dangerous stage. They can usually fly for ten minutes and when they make a mistake they are usually capable of correcting the mistake themselves. I stress the word usually. What happened in my case was that my trainee made a mistake, I allowed him the time to correct it but he made a horlicks of the correction, I gave him a little more time, but before I could regain control the model had smashed itself into the ground. Fortunately the mighty, much-loved Enya seemed to be undamaged.

The fifth stage by the way, is when they have passed a nationally recognised certificate of competence such as the British A Certificate or the French Brevet A. You can kiss them good bye then. They can fly on their own!

Sooooooooo about six years ago the wing departed from my Telemaster 40. The fuselage turned itself into a lawn dart and was only any good for firewood! For Christmas I treated myself to a pair of floats. They turned out to be too small for my Senior Telemaster so I decided to build another Telemaster 40, as I still have some structurally sound wings and I plan to build it so that it may be flown from either floats or wheels and it be used in training mode as a replacement for the Boomerang.

I have a number of unemployed fourstrokes including three Laser 70s, sleeping in their boxes. Initially I thought of fitting one of those to the T40 but then I thought that if I had a repetition of the Boomerang event, one of my beloved Lasers could be wrecked!

A few years ago I bought an Enya 45 and two OS 40s at a swap meet for 5€ (£4.28 Sterling or $5.57 US). I decided to fit one of those to the Telemaster 40 and managed to get two of them going on the test stand earlier this morning. They ran very well but they require a strap on silencer. I fitted a BCM silencer but it didn't and oh the noise!

Doesn't anybody make a decent strap-on silencer anymore?

[Robin Colbourne]

On a trip to the USA in 1988, I bought an OS20FS from America's Hobby Center in New York. I used it for several years to power a secondhand three channel Cambria Instructor 20 on which I have given many beginner's lessons, including take offs and landings. As I have just moved to a club with a tarmac runway, I think I might retire the engine and put in something with a bit less nostalgic value.

If you are prepared to accept the odd broken fin or some burnt on castor, there are still plenty of perfectly usable engines which can be picked up for under £30, leaving the 'family heirlooms' as you would wish to keep them.

[Piers Bowlan]

I am surprised someone doesn't build a pusher, IC pod and boom trainer with a 40 sized engine, rather like an MPX EasyStar on steroids. The engine would not be first on the scene of the accident so no more broken props or cylinders. The wing could be banded on. The boom carbon fibre and the fuselage pod could be replaced easily if it was totalled. Just a thought.

Edited By Piers Bowlan on 15/01/2020 11:41:42

[Robin Colbourne]

Posted by Piers Bowlan on 15/01/2020 11:40:34:

I am surprised someone doesn't build a pusher, IC pod and boom trainer with a 40 sized engine, rather like an MPX EasyStar on steroids. The engine would not be first on the scene of the accident so no more broken props or cylinders. The wing could be banded on. The boom carbon fibre and the fuselage pod could be replaced easily if it was totalled. Just a thought.

Edited By Piers Bowlan on 15/01/2020 11:41:42

A good point Piers, the main reasons that I can see would be the amount of weight getting it to balance and difficulty of starting it without an electric starter. Probably easy enough once you have the knack, but we're talking about a beginner's model here.

The other thing is it would need to be pretty stiff, as the tails on this layout tend to flap around a quite a bit on a slenderish boom, with the tail surfaces vibrating from the engine and the propwash. It is an excellent layout for an electric trainer, hence the reason there are so many like this.

[Nigel R]

A bit of weight of history here, I suspect, in the dim and distant past when everyone had to build their trainer, nothing was easier to build than a box with a foam wing.

[Don Fry]

I once had an IC powered pusher. I found out, that the prop on a pusher, pulls errant fingers into the disc, if adjusting a needle, rather than buzzing them out of the arc, as happens with a tractor prop.

I am now frightened of them. Not for beginners. David forgot the sixth stage, where a beginner learns why you are careful round the prop.

Back to post, what is your hole spacing David, or is a strap on necessary because a manufactures silence won't fit the airframe.

edit, senile, forgot the point of the post. What happens to the motor when you fall off the perch, start reading the instructions for stall speeds of these wings you've been issued with.

Edited By Don Fry on 15/01/2020 13:43:38

[Brian Cooper]

Yes. . . I have an engine which I keep as a "treasure". . It is, however, a most unlikely treasure as it is just a humble Merco .49 with a twin plug head.

The engine has no real intrinsic value, and it isn't even that pretty BUT it is treasured is because I bought it new (about 54 years ago) when I was 12 years old, and it is a shiny artifact from my childhood. . . It took ages to save up my pocket money for it, plus, it was my first "big" engine.. lol. . . There are a lot of happy memories in that old engine.

B.C.

[David Davis]

Posted by Don Fry on 15/01/2020 13:40:01:

... Back to post, what is your hole spacing David, or is a strap on necessary because a manufactures silence won't fit the airframe.

edit, senile, forgot the point of the post. What happens to the motor when you fall off the perch, start reading the instructions for stall speeds of these wings you've been issued with.

Edited By Don Fry on 15/01/2020 13:43:38

Don, the OS 40SR and the Enya are early engines with threaded holes for the silencer each side of the exhaust port. On the OS the part of the exhaust port, towards the back of the engine, has broken away. On the Enya the silencer mounting bolts have sheared off in their holes. Hence the need for a strap-on silencer.

The other OS is an as new rear exhaust engine which is intended for a Peter Russell 363.

[Piers Bowlan]

Posted by Nigel R on 15/01/2020 13:18:14:

A bit of weight of history here, I suspect, in the dim and distant past when everyone had to build their trainer, nothing was easier to build than a box with a foam wing.

 

Good point Nigel.

I agree Robin, a lot easier to balance a leccy model with a load of lithium sitting in the nose. I have a 25mm carbon fiber tube that is pretty stiff but fixing the tail surfaces to it securely would be a challenge I agree. I also take Don's point about pushers being unforgiving of unwary fingers!

Yes, back to topic...

Edited By Piers Bowlan on 15/01/2020 14:28:39

[David Davis]

Posted by Brian Cooper on 15/01/2020 13:46:07:

Yes. . . I have an engine which I keep as a "treasure". . It is, however, a most unlikely treasure as it is just a humble Merco .49 with a twin plug head.

The engine has no real intrinsic value, and it isn't even that pretty BUT it is treasured is because I bought it new (about 54 years ago) when I was 12 years old, and it is a shiny artifact from my childhood. . . It took ages to save up my pocket money for it, plus, it was my first "big" engine.. lol. . . There are a lot of happy memories in that old engine.

B.C.

Funny that Brian, I bought an Enya 35 of eBay for a few quid last year. It was in its original box with both cylinder heads and all of the paper work. It had been mounted in an airframe, marks on the lugs, but never run. This engine also has no monetary value but I can't see me starting it, flying it or selling it! Something else for the significant others to deal with when I drop off the perch!

[Nigel R]

Brian, I have a magnum gp 25 kept for the same reason.

But I sold the pristine 61rf pumper when I was about 20. Curse the foolishness of youth.

[J D 8]

I have noticed that a good solid wood or glass fibre cowl [ not abs ] will often give the engine some protection in a whoopsy limiting the damage.

[Don Fry]

And a Laser, of which David has three suitable, is a difficult lump to damage.

[Stuphedd]

My motor is a Mills 2.4 which my dad gave me sometime in the 50s.

It would start with just a gentle flick and lived permanently on the end of the work bench , all bolted down ready to go , Then in the 60s I swapped it for a Seagull outboard motor in need of some TLC to a collector,

This collector passed away a few years back and his son finding a note in the Mills box relating to its passed history got in touch and very generously gave it back to me ,

I shall give it to my son who has no interest in boats , but loves and flies diesels ! So it may fly ??

cheers

[Paul Marsh]

I love my engines, even the standard .40. This engine I bought, not used yet, but it's nice to keep, although have 3 other mk1 60's but not the machined head like this one.

[Peter Miller]

I have seen so many accidents with propellers in unusual.positions. One needed 11 stitches to put a finger together so now I refuse to have anything to do with engine that are not right out in front of the rest of the model.

On engines. I love engines but if they are not used they are just paper weights. A major part of engines is how they run, what they sound like, how the handle.

Just recently I almost bought a Dooling 29. I remember the growl after starting turining into the high pitched yowl as it is leaned out.

But I knew that running it at home would be out of the question and running it on the field would not have been popular so I didn't buy it.

[Don Fry]

Posted by Don Fry on 15/01/2020 16:16:13:

And a Laser, of which David has three suitable, is a difficult lump to damage.

No question of envy mind.

[Andy48]

A little off topic, but the OP's story raises a few interesting issues.

1. By the time students have got to the confidence stage of take offs and landings surely they should have their own plane and one buddy boxes to that.

2. I don't have any sentimentality about my electric motors seeing as they are as cheap as chips.

3. I love the quick take back system I have on my Frsky gear where I regain control instantly simply by moving the joystick. It is that difficult time where you just give them that extra fraction of a second to self correct that this works best.

[Steve Adams]

I have brand new in boxes with receipts MDS 38 and Irvine 25 Mk 3 abc never run engines. Have a MDS 25 in my old RCM&E Rag Tag and a Enya 40 in my late friend's own designed Bobcat(like a bigger Precedent Fun Fly only slightly bigger and designed before Fun Fly!)

Steve

[alex nicol]

I'm firmly in the enjoyment through use camp. All ic ( glow and petrol). The only engines I'd admit to a little sentimental attachment are from my control line days in the early 70's namely a Super Tigre G20/15 and a Rossi 15 diesel. Unfortunately both are way past their prime ( completely clapped out ) and will never power anything again but I just couldn't bring myself to dispose of them and they reside in the bench drawer wrapped in an oily rag.

[David Davis]

Posted by Andy48 on 16/01/2020 22:43:25:

A little off topic, but the OP's story raises a few interesting issues.

1. By the time students have got to the confidence stage of take offs and landings surely they should have their own plane and one buddy boxes to that.

2. I don't have any sentimentality about my electric motors seeing as they are as cheap as chips.

3. I love the quick take back system I have on my Frsky gear where I regain control instantly simply by moving the joystick. It is that difficult time where you just give them that extra fraction of a second to self correct that this works best.

I have my own training programme Andy which goes like this;

1. Left hand circuit.
2. Right hand circuit.
3. Horizontal figure of eight.
4. When the trainee has reached this stage I teach him how to take off.
5. Loop
6. Roll, these two manouvres are part of the French Brevet A Qualification if using a four-channel model.The Brevet A is the equivalent of the BMFA A Certificate but a bit more involved.
7. Once the trainee has mastered these manouvres I teach him how to land but at this stage I insist the he has his own model!

However, my trainee had only reached Stage 3 of the training programme when he got into difficulties. As I've said above,I failed to take back control quickly enough and this happened...

If I buy another Boomerang I may power it by an electric motor, I've no emotional involvement with them, but then that Enya is so pleasant to use and to listen to.

[Don Fry]

Small point David. My (failed) trainee is selling his kit. In the kit is an OS 40 FP. and a Thunder Tigre 42 GP.

Both are simple plain bearing trainer type things. Both start easily, with good throttle transition, and reliable tickover, in other words nice little engines. IRO, €20 each.

[David Davis]

Posted by Don Fry on 17/01/2020 11:12:19:

Small point David. My (failed) trainee is selling his kit. In the kit is an OS 40 FP. and a Thunder Tigre 42 GP.

Both are simple plain bearing trainer type things. Both start easily, with good throttle transition, and reliable tickover, in other words nice little engines. IRO, €20 each.

Thank you for the offer Don, I have never considered myself to be an engine collector but I am an acquirer of unconsidered trifles!

It was a nice day yesterday and as a reward for having finished digging a trench in the garden, one of two required to build a path on sloping ground, I had a play with some of my engines which could possibly be used in a 40 sized trainer. I managed to get the following to run on the test stand: Webra 40, Super Tigre 40, Enya 45 and OS 40 FP which used to power my Fun Fly, so I'm not short of suitable engines.

I also own three Irvines and the Enya 50 any of which I could use.

If I do replace the Boomerang I will think about installing an electric motor but probably end up running the Enya 50!

[spudsy]

I have a super tiger x-15 in my fondling box, looks like it's doing 10,000 rpm just sitting in my hand. I bought it just because I liked the look of it, and that was about 25 years ago.just looks so good.

[Paul Marsh]

I have over a thousand engines so far, mostly the 40 ish sized two strokes.