Martin Baker MB5

[Nightflyer]

Having finally got round to completing my read of the July issue and looking at the Next Issue teaser at the back of the mag there was a picture and snippet about Tim Ruck's Martin Baker MB5 model and I have to admit that I cannot wait to get the August issue now to read more.

The picture reminded me of Tim's original Class 2 scale model from the 70's that won the Nationals flown by some guy called 'Tom Puck' - as reported by a certain magazine at the time .

At the time I was a teenager learning to fly in the Hastings club and Tim not only designed the trainer that myself and my father both learnt to fly on but what impressed me was the MB5 and seeing this model flown and to have it at my parents home (pride of place and maximum security) in the lounge because of a model display the club was putting on.

I look forward to reading the article next month - but an equally interesting article could be written about Tim's interest in model flying.

[Ray Wood 4]

Yes I remember Tim's original MB5 at an early flying show in 1982 at Graveney Kent, run by the Canterbury club, Chris Foss was flying a Dalotel, and me flying my MR Hurricane badly 😲

Looks very Mustang like with that radiator, did it have a contra rotating prop on the full-size ??

Regards Ray

[J D 8]

John Marlin an aircraft enthusiast in the US has built a full size replica and it has a contra prop.

[perttime]

It is funny that having the radiator under the belly of any aircraft makes people think that it "looks like a Mustang".

[Nigel R]

Personally I can't really see the Mustang in the MB5 much... MB5 has short stubby wings and a long, long fuselage, most everything a different shape. The MB5 was quite a thing, very sleek. But times changed, and jets were the thing, they all had 100mph on the MB5.

The MB5 must make a great model. No problem with balance. Nice long moment arm, wide U/C, etc.

Edited By Nigel R on 07/07/2020 12:04:46

[Bob Cotsford]

Back in the '70s or '80s someone did market a kit for the MB5, it might have been Rojair but I wouldn't swear to it. I've got a feeling it was that style of quickbuild kits using lots of veneered foam chunks to build up the general shape. Yet another kit I couldn't afford at that time!

[Nightflyer]

Posted by Ray Wood 4 on 07/07/2020 07:07:49:

Yes I remember Tim's original MB5 at an early flying show in 1982 at Graveney Kent, run by the Canterbury club, Chris Foss was flying a Dalotel, and me flying my MR Hurricane badly 😲

Looks very Mustang like with that radiator, did it have a contra rotating prop on the full-size ??

Regards Ray

Yes Ray, the full size had contra prop. Tim's original model was a lovely plane on the ground and in the air. Tim went on to build the FW Ta152 as the successor model for competitions and that looked excellent on the ground and in the air. I remember Chris' Dalotel, I think I liked that more than his Loving Wayne Love.

Regards

Paul

[Simon Chaddock]

Ray Wood 4

Yes the full size did have contra props and initially the highest ever power RR Griffon at 2340 hp that gave it a superb performance.

The MB5 was considered the pinnacle of piston fighter development not only because it had a good performance but that it incorporated features that would be a benefit in service like its simple pneumatically operated undercarriage, the layout of the wing ammunition boxes to speed reloading and big removable fuselage panels to aid servicing. Even the cockpit layout was considered good enough to be adopted as a 'standard' for future fighter aircraft.

Of course no matter how good the prototype was by the time of its first flight in mid 1944 it could not complete with the ultimate speed of the jet aircraft then in development.

Its cancellation was a great disappointment to Martin Baker so they concentrated on the development of ejection seats and they have proved pretty good at designing those as well.

[Nigel R]

By comparison, Supermarine managed to turn a trick on the Spiteful development and re-use bits of it as the Attacker.

I'm not sure Martin Baker had the necessary production capability or experience to put the MB5 into proper service?

[Nightflyer]

True enough what both Ray and Nigel say. MB would be ok for post war production but when you look at the production rate for the likes of fighters such as the P51 or P47 or even the Spitfire MB would struggle.

As for Supermarine using Spiteful parts for the Attacker a number of British, US and Russian early aircraft used parts of piston aircraft as it was easy to keep time and costs down.

Getting back to the MB5 it has never been modelled much although Tim's rc examples and a few free flight rubber control line or electric RTP examples have existed over the years.

[kc]

I think it was not Rojair but Flywel Models of Barnstaple who did a kit for the Martin Baker in the 1980's. They also did a Turbulent kit.    Review of the Flywel MB5 in RCModelWorld January 1985.   Model was 62 inch for a .60

Shouldn't somebody do a new design for an MB5 soon?

Edited By kc on 08/07/2020 12:02:20

[J D 8]

Another of those " looks like a Mustang " prototypes was the Commonwealth Aircraft Corporation CA-15 built towards war's end in Australia , also Griffon powered. Not seen it modelled but someone in Aus may have done so.

[perttime]

Posted by J D 8 on 08/07/2020 13:03:01:

Another of those " looks like a Mustang " prototypes was the Commonwealth Aircraft Corporation CA-15 built towards war's end in Australia , also Griffon powered. Not seen it modelled but someone in Aus may have done so.

It "looks like a Mustang" because radial engines were not available, so a Griffon had to be used, instead.

[Bob Cotsford]

Posted by kc on 08/07/2020 11:33:19:

I think it was not Rojair but Flywel Models of Barnstaple who did a kit for the Martin Baker in the 1980's. They also did a Turbulent kit. Review of the Flywel MB5 in RCModelWorld January 1985. Model was 62 inch for a .60

Shouldn't somebody do a new design for an MB5 soon?

Edited By kc on 08/07/2020 12:02:20

1985! I'm surprised it was as late as that.

[J D 8]

Many interesting/promising airframe and engine projects came to an early end due to the arrival of the jet engine.

The Rolls Royce Crecy was a 26ltr V12 supercharged two stroke, sleeve valve, petrol fuel injected engine and fully developed would have produced many thousands of HP. Very Complex when compared to the jet turbine.

[Nigel R]

Jet turbines are not without their complexities

From the perspective of the time, perhaps those airframes ceased to be promising or interesting?

Supersonic was on the horizon with a whole different set of aerodynamic rules...

[J D 8]

Did the Americans not have a turboprop development of the F84 Thunderstreak that was supersonic or was it just the prop that went supersonic?

[Nightflyer]

There were a number of designs about either on paper or prototype or mock up by the various aircraft companies both allied and axis. There was a fairly good book about back in the 80's which detailed a sizeable number that I had from my local library back about 10 years ago. From memory North American had two interesting designs one utilising P51 wings and tailplane and a new fuselage for jet power.

An MB5 plan would be good for sure.

[Timo Starkloff]

Concerning the XF84-H, a little bit off topic but worth a read and funny, too:
https://www.airspacemag.com/how-things-work/zwrrwwwbrzr-4846149/

Timo

Edited By Timo Starkloff on 10/07/2020 22:07:27

[J D 8]

Thanks for the info Timo on the XF84-H, interesting stuff. I must have read the Aeroplane Monthly feature in 77 mentioned in the text.

[Nightflyer]

Well having received my August issue it was great to read the article on Tim's second MB5 and the words and photos did not disappoint. It makes you wonder what might have been if there had not been the advent of jet powered aircraft.

[Roy Thompson]

Taking about the MB5 not being modeled very much, this is mine that I started in 2000. She's getting a little long in the tooth but has gone through several evolutions, including 3 electric contra rotating motors.

[David Ashby - Moderator]

Superb model line up Roy ?

[GrumpyGnome]

Verrryyy nice

[Simon Chaddock]

A long time ago -1970 I chose the Martin Baker MB5 to model because it had characteristics that suited my then interest in indoor electric control line as it has lots of prop and a short broad chord wing!

Quite a small model at 24" span and powered by two brushed 'slot car' motors geared to drive scale diameter props.

Built almost exclusively in 1/32" balsa but as a stressed skin structure so other reinforcing required anywhere.

The prop blades are carved balsa inserted into soft balsa spinners. Delicate yes but quite strong enough as each motor only generates about 35 Watts!

All up it weighs 4.5 ozs (128 g) of which the motors, gears and props account for about 50%!

The the wires feeding the motors also act as elevator control lines so it has to use quite short 6 ft (1.8 m) lines to limit voltage drop which in turn means a neat remote control centre head so the 'pilot' could sit outside the circle to work the throttle and elevator.

It did actually fly quite well although it had to be landed ever so gently to keep the props from hitting the ground.

50 years on I still have it but it is firmly retired.

Edited February 13, 2021 by Simon Chaddock