Dave Smith Models

[Jeffrey Cottrell 2]

Hi All

Got a model kit manufacturer who might be interested in bringing back Dave Smith models to the market. He has asked me for any info on either the designer or previous makers.

I have given him details for Geoff Hodgson at Foam-Wings, who was planning to bring the models back some time ago. However I understand that DSM production was taken over for a time by Marvic Models.

I know Marvic Models shop is long gone but wonder if there might be a way still to get in touch with the owner.

Might be a long shot, but who knows?

Jeff

[Engine Doctor]

That will be good  if he can make a go of it. Davve Smiths model were great f.ying models. Wish him good luck.

[Andy Stephenson]

There's a shortage of classic patternships with the resurgence of that style of flying. Some of the kits and airframes from the 70s and 80s go for stupid prices so it could be a going concern.

[Jeffrey Cottrell 2]

Hi ED

Agreed, I have a soft spot for this style of model. So much more elegant than todays' 'fish with flippers'. Probably don't fly as well, but then neither do I so that fits in nicely.

Out of interest, my contact is Nick from NJR models. He has already brought back the Mirus, by Ken Stokes and the Blob, Thing and Apache from the Alan Head stable. He has a track record of bringing to market popular but discontinued models.

First of all though, quite rightly he needs to get in touch with Dave himself, or whoever now owns the rights to his designs. Wouldn't be proper any other way.

Meanwhile, just to prove it's a small world, new issue of RCME has an article from Alex Whittaker about his visit to Fighter Aces workshop.

There is a picture of some fuselages in the process of being vacuum bagged. They are destined to go to Nick for his Apache kits.

No doubting their quality then.

Anybody noticed the sale on at SMC? Looks like their selling off some of their old stock that had been gathering dust at the back of the warehouse. By coincidence, one of these is a Smart Move. Would have had it like a shot, except they're asking £279 for it, ouch !!!

Mind you, point I made to Nick was if an old kit can command that sort of money, definitely scope for profit for a new issue.

We'll see

Jeff

[Jeffrey Cottrell 2]

Hi Andy

Your post came in while I was typing, but does serve to illustrate your point. £279 for a Smart Move kit does seem excessive to me.

Ho hum

Jeff

[Andy Stephenson]

Some of the original designs were from champions like Wolfgang Matt so would it be better to contact him and others for the rights.

[Andy Stephenson]

Jeffrey, I don't think much could be done about the price as balsa costs have gone through the roof recently but if alternative materials could be found it might help.

[Jeffrey Cottrell 2]

Andy

Agreed about current prices, but as far as I know SMC are selling these kits as old stock. Don't know how long the Smart Move has been in stock, but probably a matter of years.

Not only would they have been far cheaper back in the day, but the kit has been around for a long time, so might suffer from balsa drying out, veneer separating, and all the other issues that plague models that have been stored for a long time.

Still think £279 is excessive.

Jeff

[Mike Watters]

Good idea with the revival of DSM kits. I've had a few Smart Moves, Excelsior 188 and a Joker in the past. Very nice kits. I liked the way they used obeche veneer as a substitute for plywood doublers in strengthing the fuselage nose. 

I heard Dave Smith sold on the business and went into being car dealer.

[Jeffrey Cottrell 2]

Hi Mike

Early days yet, we'll see. I understand Marvic Models took over production for a time. I know they had a shop in York, which closed long time ago, but if anyone knows whether the owner is still around, might have drawings or moulds for these old models.

Anybody got Hercule Poirot's mobile?

Jeff

[cymaz]

I had an Aerostar, wonderful!

[cymaz]

Just now, Jeffrey Cottrell 2 said:

Hi Mike

Early days yet, we'll see. I understand Marvic Models took over production for a time. I know they had a shop in York, which closed long time ago, but if anyone knows whether the owner is still around, might have drawings or moulds for these old models.

Anybody got Hercule Poirot's mobile?

Jeff

 

No, but I might have the number for Hastings

[Matt Carlton]

Did the DSM range come with a pre built fuselage? That might have to fall by the wayside to make the sums add up perhaps? 

 

Short kits would make a lot of sense. Main airframe components but leave out the hardware as most modellers wanting to build one would likely have their own preferences for hinges, linkages, glow vs electric, fixed vs retracts etc. 

 

Judicious use of liteply for fuselage sides etc, obechi veneered foam wings, stabiliser, fin, rudder etc could cut balsa content? 

 

Would be nice to see them back though, I always wanted a Saphir or an Excelsior. The little 25 size Joker (?) looked a cute thing too. 

[Jeffrey Cottrell 2]

Hi Mike

Early days yet, we'll see. I understand Marvic Models took over production for a time. I know they had a shop in York, which closed long time ago, but if anyone knows whether the owner is still around, might have drawings or moulds for these old models.

Anybody got Hercule Poirot's mobile?

Jeff

[Jeffrey Cottrell 2]

Hi Matt

I believe the DSM produced models had a jig built fuz. Not sure about the Marvic models ones. I do know they had veneered foam top deckings.

I would guess anyone wanting a model like this would be capable of making a straight fuz, given the components. I believe these models were not supplied with a full size plan, so what would be needed would be working drawings, plus of course permission from the owner to use them commercially.

Please note it's not me planning for these kits. I spoke to Nick from NJR models, who was interested, but asked me to find out who currently owns the rights to the designs.

Here's a thought. SMC have a Smart Move kit for sale. Way too expensive for me, but we could crowd fund it and then draw round the bits.

Only joking (or am I?)

Jeff

[Stuart Z]

Hi

 

Not sure that Marvin “took over” from DSM as such I seem to remember buying kits (Jokers &  a Saphir) from both.  At similar times.  
 

Luckily, I still have an unstarted Joker 40 to build. Not sure, but I think Marvic.  As said there are no plans supplied.  
 

S

[Stuart Z]

2 hours ago, Stuart Z said:

Hi

 

Not sure that Marvin “took over” from DSM as such I seem to remember buying kits (Jokers &  a Saphir) from both.  At similar times.  
 

Luckily, I still have an unstarted Joker 40 to build. Not sure, but I think Marvic.  As said there are no plans supplied.  
 

S

Mine is a Marvic kit and does have a jig built fuselage.

From memory it was DSM with the shop in York.

Edited May 22, 2022 by Stuart Z

[Jeffrey Cottrell 2]

Hi Stuart

Definitely Marvic Models in York, run by Vic Atkins. Have a post regretting its closure, but that dated April 2020, so obviously closed before that. What connection there is between Marvic the shop and Marvic the kit makers, I'm not sure.

Jeff

[David Foley]

Had a Super Dalotel back in the day. Very simple model to build, with foam front and rear decks and

no fiberglass cowl. Foam wing and tail. Was available in kit form or with jig built fuzz.

[Nigel R]

Have a feeling they produced a kit for "Dupli Star" at one point?

 

https://outerzone.co.uk/plan_details.asp?ID=7938

 

Maybe I am misremembering, it might have been the foam wing place they used would cut wings, tail & decking. Either way the construction shown is certainly of exactly DSM style.

[David Davis]

I had a DSM Smart Move and a Super Delotel in the past and an Aerostar awaits it's turn to be renovated in the cellar. They were wonderful flyers. I hope that someone starts to produce them again.

 

 

[Matt Carlton]

In a similar vein, I seem to remember that one or more of Terry Westrop's "Loaded Dice" were kitted in the same format, or did I imagine that?

 

I'm sure someone was selling them at the 'Nats, probably early to mid 1990s at a guess? 

 

 

[Jeffrey Cottrell 2]

Hi Nigel, thanks for that.

The plan does certainly have a DSM style about it, reminiscient of the Aerostar. Tried to download the plan from OZ, but all I got was a blank screen. Probably my end rather than OZ's. I'll keep trying.

Meanwhile, had a look at the original RCU thread this was taken from. Apparently the plans were drawn from an ARF kit, so not sure how accurate they are, however the thread does include a pdf of the plan which I can actually download for a look.

Text says this drawing was made by an englishman, then passed to him via a guy in Ireland.

Sounds more like a dubious deal to me.

Wonder whether the englishman might have been Dave himself.

Of most interest is this.

Looking at the plan from RCU, and enlarging part of it the text for the decking clearly mentions Dalesman. That rings a bell as being an english company from back in the day.

Anybody else remember the name?

Serious danger of this becoming a complicated path, but interesting nonetheless.

Jeff

 

[Jeffrey Cottrell 2]

Hi Again

Finally got my computer to play ball and download me a copy from the OZ file. As expected same as the one from RCU, but much clearer.

Certainly be enough to build from, although since it was drawn from the parts of an arf kit, can't guarantee how accurate they are.

Now being able to view the whole plan, I can see that the foam wing and tail also mention Dalesman.

Whether this is a note added by whoever drew the plans, I don't know, but since Dalesman was an english company iirc, certainly lends weight to these drawings originally coming from over here.

The plot thickens.

Jeff

[Bruce Collinson]

Bill Manley/Bill Kits has done Excelsior wings for a couple of us recently and therefore has the patterns.   As several of us are clearly fans of these models (they all seem to fly well) and JC's contact NJR Models appears to have an appetite to re-kit them, I'm asking myself:

1)    Should the likes of Bill Manley be asked for info on the previous kitters, who probably outsourced foam wing production

2)    If the issue is one of registered design rights, if they are registered this ought to be in the public domain and they automatically expire, I think after 25 yrs and if unregistered then sooner (I'm not a real patents attorney though) but when did anyone hear of the boy-band type litigation where a model aeroplane is concerned?   Or, get the Chinese to make them because they do not seem to be bound by arcane ideals like copyright and counterfeit laws.   I'd rather they were made here or in the Czech Republic or Germany, France even, albeit at a higher price.

 

I fear this is crossing with Jeff's replies as I was interrupted in mid-flow.

 

BTC