On/Off switch puzzle

[Jeffrey Cottrell 2]

Hi Guys.
Bit of a mundane subject, but it's causing me a bit of head scratching.
Looking for an on/off switch for my latest project. Will be fitting this under the canopy, so wanted one with a built in led for visible check.
Bought one from a well known retailer.
This has two leads coming out the bottom, one to the battery the other to the RX. Also two sockets on the top plate, one male, one female for charging in situ.
Mine is giving very odd results.
Anybody used one of these, had any issues?
Thanks
Jeff

[Engine Doctor]

Odd results ? It's a switch and should just switch on and off. If in doubt don't use it. Get a refund as the retailer won't be interested in paying for a broken model. Why not fit a led battery checker plugged into the circuit with a reliable normal switch ?

[David Ovenden]

I had one that was incorrectly wired up to the built in charging socket! Had to resolver leads inside the switch to get it working properly. Then only used in small slow model boat

[Jeffrey Cottrell 2]

Hi David

Was your one the same as mine, two sockets on top, one male, one female? If so, how did you re-arrange the wiring so it worked right.

Thanks

Jeff

[Don Fry]

Just reinforcing Engine Doctors advice. Switch, odd result, bin. Ditto other bits of the hobby. 
You might get a sub bin, while you cogitate. On the workbench, so it’s going to get in the way. 

But over the years, I’ve burnt ex good airframes on the fire, broken ex good engines/ motors. 

The electronics are a minor expense.

[Jeffrey Cottrell 2]

Don

Three different units, from two different suppliers, each exhibiting the same fault.

Wouldn't you be curious how that came about?

Expense doesn't enter into it.

Jeff

[BackinBlack]

Jeff.

Perhaps you could describe the exact nature of the odd result/fault. Difficult to comment without understanding the nature of the fault.

Ian

[Jeffrey Cottrell 2]

Hi Ian

I'll try to be concise, here it is.

I have a wall charger with led indicators for charge flowing. Off load terminal voltage of 9v.

1) Switch to off position, plug in charger. No led on charger, but terminal voltage (9v) at receiver plug. Also led on switch glows brighter than expected.

2) Switch to on position. Led on on charger, led on switch glows less bright. Increase in voltage at battery, but same voltage appears at receiver switch.

So, no charging with switch off. Switch on and charge starts, but also powers up the receiver.

I have only measured off load voltage at receiver plug. Reluctant to try with receiver in case it puts 9v into it, and magic smoke.

I would expect to be able to charge the battery with the switch off and receiver isolated, but what I have is exactly the opposite.

Any thoughts?

Jeff

[Jeffrey Cottrell 2]

Hi Ian

Just a quick follow up.

Took a chance, dug out an old surplus receiver, plugged it into the switch, and measured 8v going into the receiver.

Glad I used a surplus one.

Jeff

[Denis Watkins]

10 hours ago, Jeffrey Cottrell 2 said:

 

I would expect to be able to charge the battery with the switch off and receiver isolated, but what I have is exactly the opposite.

Any thoughts?

Jeff

 

That's right Jeff, if you check that it is a 6 pin slider switch, I will pen out a diagram.

Edited September 17, 2022 by Denis Watkins

[RottenRow]

Hi Jeffrey,

 

Could you include a link to someone selling the type of switch that you have, so we know exactly what we're discussing here please?

 

You mentioned previously that the front has two sockets on it, which you say are for charging. I would suggest that one of these is for checking the on-line battery voltage and that is the one that you are using as the charger input. The other socket is probably the correct one for the charger and would work with the switch in the 'off' position. If we know exactly what switch we are talking about we would have a better understanding of your issue.

 

The fact that two different suppliers have supplied switches with the same issue only really suggests that they source them from the same (probably chinese) manufacturer.

 

Brian.

[Denis Watkins]

Just thought, it may be difficult to open up the switch. It should be a 6 pin slider.

One row of 3 will be plus, and opposite row minus.

Stay polarised, red to red, black to black, for all to work, the led, charger and the Rx.

Middle pins Battery, The ON end, The Rx and LED, the OFF end, the Charger.I

Just 2 links now, linking the Middle Battery pins to the OFF Charger pins.

 

So, ON connects just The Battery, the LED and the Rx.

OFF, connects just The Charger and the Battery.

The Switch now isolates each side and the Charger cannot connect to the Rx.

 

 

[Jeffrey Cottrell 2]

Hi Guys

RottenRow
Been a bit reluctant to publish links since both suppliers have been very fair in their dealings with me.
However, since I feel I have found a switch type to be avoided, here we go:

https://www.bspspares.co.uk/collections/all/products/c6012-rc-model-receiver-on-off-battery-heavy-duty-switch-futaba-plug-connector

Note, after my enquiry, they changed the text to specify that the sockets were NOT there to charge the battery.
Makes sense from a safety point of view, but can't see why fit two sockets for running other items but still having to unplug the battery to charge it.
Having said that, after I asked the question, they did give me a full refund without asking for the switch back. Fair play to them.
Have to agree they all probably come from the same factory, probably in China.

Denis
Opening up the switch was easy, but it does look odd. The internals are mounted on a small circuit board, but the switch seems to be a simple single terminal on/off slide switch. Not at all what I was expecting. I have been refunded for the item, so no reason why I should not unsolder the switch, and check separately, but I don't think I'll find anything different.

Can't see a way I would be happy to use these, but I still like the idea of switch, led and charge socket in one unit, so I'm thinking of just using the case, and fitting my own internals.
Got some bits on order, will see how that goes.
Meanwhile, thanks for the how-to on wiring up a 6 pin slider. Obviously works fine, but could I suggest a slightly different approach?
I would gang together all the negative wires and only switch the positives. However I would solder the positives to both terminals, so in case one set of contacts should fail, the other would still take the load. Safety first.

Thanks for all your thoughts

Jeff

 

[Rich Griff]

Thanks for the heads up about that supplier, not looked at everything on there mostly for RC cars, but centrifugal clutch and pull start mechanisms listed...

 

Maybe I can convert the merco 61 marine I have after all....

[RottenRow]

Hi Jeffrey,

 

I can't really see a useful purpose for that switch, except perhaps to switch on the receiver is a model that doesn't use a receiver battery (an electric model with a BEC for example). It's good that the suppliers have refunded and interesting that they have since changed the description on their website.

 

You need something like this:

 

https://www.rapidrcmodels.com/futaba-switch-harness-with-built-in-charging-socket-and-battery-indicator-light-2749-p.asp

 

Alternatively, if you are going down the route of making your own, then I totally agree with your suggestion of only switching the positive line.

 

Brian.

[Jeffrey Cottrell 2]

51 minutes ago, RottenRow said:

I can't really see a useful purpose for that switch, except perhaps to switch on the receiver is a model that doesn't use a receiver battery (an electric model with a BEC for example).

Hi Brian

Can't really understand that. If you have an ic model with a separate pack for the electrics, how would you go about disconnecting after a flight?

On my electric models, it's now second nature to unplug the battery immediately after a flight. This switch gives me the same quick option for my ic models.

Been dealing with Blacksmith Products for years and can recommend their service. Really not to blame for one of their products not doing what it's supposed to, but you have to admire the speed at which they changed the website to show correctly.

Thanks for the link to an alternative switch. That's the one I have on the model now, made by Etronix. Works fine, but a bit big and bulky (much like the pilot, I daresay) for a tight install.

Will be rolling my own as soon as the bits arrive, see how that goes.

Finally, while it would be my preference to switch only the positive leads, doesn't mean Denis's method is not as valid. In fact probably make for a neater soldering job.

Just seems to me if both contacts are used adds a little inbuilt redundancy. Bonus, although not really needed for our purpose, is that the current carrying capacity is doubled as well. Win-win.

Work in progress

Jeff

[RottenRow]

Hi Jeffrey,

 

Not an ic model, an electric model where the ESC supplies the receiver and servos from the flight battery via a BEC. Yes I agree about disconnecting flight batteries straight after a flight, but if there were a need to switch off the receiver and servos first this switch would do that. I was only really trying to think of any possible application that it might be used in. I suppose in the old days when dry battery packs were used in some radios (no recharging) it could do for that as well.

 

I agree that Denis' method is also valid, but the single line switching gives both of the benefits that you point out. I think all of the proprietary switch harnesses that I have seen have used single line switching.

 

Brian.

[PatMc]

The last time I remember dry cells being used for Rx's was in single channel days.

Single pole switching using both contacts of a double pole switch was common from early 27 meg proportional days. But two separate SP switches wired in parallel is a better option as it allows both switches to be tested in pre flight checks.

[Brian Cooper]

Get a new and proper switch. 

[Jeffrey Cottrell 2]

Ok, Brian, I'll give that a try