EarlyBird Posted November 17, 2023 Share Posted November 17, 2023 BTW there could be a c-clip that needs removing before the shaft will tap through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted November 17, 2023 Author Share Posted November 17, 2023 (edited) Hi Earlybird, I have loosened the collar screws and a lille metal washer thing but when I tried to move the shaft ny applying a little gentle pressure against a worktop, it didn't want to play ball. I stopped short of tapping it as I did not know if that might damage anything. I suggested that on the forum but folks think it's not a great idea. The shaft does appear very tight indeed. Toto Edited November 17, 2023 by toto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveman Posted November 17, 2023 Share Posted November 17, 2023 My advice Toto, you've got the screwed-on adaptor in the post and it will solve your problem. At the moment you've got enough on your plate building multiple kits and learning to fly. Leave the motor shaft alone, but use all the discussion about this, and the other topics you've raised in your other threads, as a learning exercise in order to have a better understanding as you move forward. Keep it coming! GDB 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Learner Posted November 17, 2023 Share Posted November 17, 2023 5 minutes ago, Caveman said: My advice Toto, you've got the screwed-on adaptor in the post and it will solve your problem. At the moment you've got enough on your plate building multiple kits and learning to fly. Leave the motor shaft alone, but use all the discussion about this, and the other topics you've raised in your other threads, as a learning exercise in order to have a better understanding as you move forward. Keep it coming! GDB And do the research before pressing the buy button as nothings as simple as it may seem. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted November 19, 2023 Author Share Posted November 19, 2023 Adaptor came yesterday so will be trying it out later today. All going well, I'll have pressed the Wattmeter back into service and shall have some figures to determine success or failure. If I get that out of the way then I can look at installing the snakes and studs that I recently purchased as a substitute for the included metal pushrods that came with the kit. Then ..... it's just a case of fine tu ing the linkages for the control surfaces and setting up dual rates etc. My mentor will maybe do a check over and maiden for me then it can be shelved until I'm ready to take her to the skies. Toto 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted November 19, 2023 Author Share Posted November 19, 2023 Good afternoon from the shed for another installment of frustrating crap. adaptor plate received and ready to go .... fitted like a dream ..... all installed and prop on ..... bullet connectors are a different size .... what a load of complete tripe ..... Now .... I need to either change the connectors on the ESC ( Soldering ) or change the connectors on the motor wires. They do give you the correct size connector to solder on to the ESC ..... big heated of them . Why not just fit the correct connectors on the motor wires to begin with .... My fear is that I fry the ESC when soldering with the heat from the iron. nothing ever straight forward ...... one very demented toto. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyGnome Posted November 19, 2023 Share Posted November 19, 2023 There are no 'correct' connectors. It's reasonable to expect a motor and esc to match if they're made by the same people and part of a recommended setup............ assume you'll need some soldering on each plane 🙂 If you manage to damage an esc with heat from soldering, you're doing it wrong. I use bullet connectors; I fill the connectors with molten solder, then dip the lead into the molten solder. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted November 19, 2023 Author Share Posted November 19, 2023 Hi Grumpy. exactly how I have just done it .... and added heatshrink to cover any bare connector... admittedly, It wasn't to difficult anyway .... I was just venting off. I find soldering the EC5 connectors a pain but these bullet types are actually quite easy. onwards ......... toto 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyGnome Posted November 19, 2023 Share Posted November 19, 2023 Bullets definitely the easiest to solder! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Jenkins Posted November 19, 2023 Share Posted November 19, 2023 Toto, You need to learn how to solder as it's a pretty common requirement. You need a hot iron. I use a 75 watt iron and that gets the heat transfer quickly. The length of ESC leads give you plenty of safety. I cut my battery leads quite short so they are only 1" long but, as GG says, fill the connector with solder and push the lead in. You can make your own connector holder by drilling 3 mm or 4 mm holes in a hardwood block and push the connectors into the drilled holes to anchor them while you solder. There are also commercially available devices that do the same. Practice makes perfect. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Jenkins Posted November 19, 2023 Share Posted November 19, 2023 Sorry Toto our emails crossed! Watching the cricket so a bit distracted. That's why I have standardised on 4 mm bullet connectors for my bstteries. I use the ones sold by Hobby King that have polarised plastic insulators - excellent devices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted November 19, 2023 Author Share Posted November 19, 2023 OK ..... the results are in ........ Watt meter was out and results based on the following ...... 12 x 8 prop 4s 14.8v 50c 5000 mah Voltz battery 80A ESC Unloaded 00.00 A 16.63 V 182.4 WP 00.00W 00.001 AH 00.00 WH 10.97 AP 16.60 WM Loaded at full tilt 25.58 A 15.42 V 440.8 WP 404.9 W 00.227 AH 04.20 WH 27.92 AP 15.19 WM Still seems low on the power ( watts ) read out. the model is about 8.5 lb which is only around 50w per lb. I would not have much room for manouvre for a bigger prop for ground clearance purposes but what about a bigger 6S battery ? toto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted November 19, 2023 Author Share Posted November 19, 2023 Hi Peter ..... passing ships in the night 😄 the soldering went quite well so I've taken the toys back into the pram ..... just a bit frustration showing through. many thanks toto 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted November 19, 2023 Author Share Posted November 19, 2023 Just checked the model spec again and it is recommending a 6s 4000 - 5500 mah battery so I have one topping up its charge as we speak. back with results later. toto 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted November 19, 2023 Author Share Posted November 19, 2023 Ok the results are in based on the following .... 6s 4800 mah 22.2 V 50c Voltz battery 80 A ESC 12 x 8 prop Unloaded 00.00 A 25.10 V 277.6 WP 00.00 W 00.002 AH 00.00 WH 11.05 AP 25.02 WM Loaded at full tilt 48.91 A 21.71 V 1186.50 WP 1004.01 W 00.913 AH 13.10 WH 53.26 AP 21.55 WM certainly getting the power at 1004 watts based on 8.5 lb = 118w per lb. the spec says 8.5 to 9 lb in weight so even basing this on 9 lb = 111.5 watts per pound and only drawing 48.91 Amps with a 80A ESC. whats the verdict ? toto 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EarlyBird Posted November 19, 2023 Share Posted November 19, 2023 👍 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Learner Posted November 19, 2023 Share Posted November 19, 2023 Thats fine, you may want to do a bit of fine tuning with prop size after test flight but good to go. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted November 19, 2023 Author Share Posted November 19, 2023 Huzzzaaaaarrrrgggghhhhhh This thing should go like a scalded cat ..... a big cat ..... after all ...... its a Tiger. Now I can turn my attention to fitting the snakes and mechanically setting them to get as near to ground zero ( trim wise ) before setting up the dual rates and the like. happy bunny. toto 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Learner Posted November 19, 2023 Share Posted November 19, 2023 Just looking at those figures again, you have a massive voltage drop on that battery down from 25.1 to 21.7! That doesn't seem right was it fully charged and how long did you run it? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted November 19, 2023 Author Share Posted November 19, 2023 Thanks to everyone for baring with me on this ..... it may be reasonably easy enough for the experienced hand ........ but for the out and out Numpty ..... its not quite so easy. cheers toto 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Jenkins Posted November 19, 2023 Share Posted November 19, 2023 37 minutes ago, Learner said: Just looking at those figures again, you have a massive voltage drop on that battery down from 25.1 to 21.7! That doesn't seem right was it fully charged and how long did you run it? When I was checking the power output in my new contra motor I had a fully charged 10S pack (42.00 V at full charge) and recorded a power output soon after take off in a vertical climb at full throttle of 3,600 W, 96 A and 37.5 V. That voltage drop is a bit more than Toto's experiment showed. So, I think that is probably correct. In normal usage, I rarely use more than 2,800 W and after flying my schedule of manoeuvres I land with the pack showing around 37.6 - 37.8 V. When I recharge the pack this usually equates to a figure of 3,000 - 3,300 mAh into a 4,800 mAh pack. Have you got actual figures to provide us that shows the max power and V and A readings or are you just surprised? You should remember that as you draw current the voltage will drop and the more current you draw the bigger the voltage drop. It's how batteries react and one of the reasons is their internal resistance. The more current you draw equates to reducing the external resistance and since the total resistance being seen by the battery is external + internal resistance the voltage drop measured across the external resistance, which is what we measure, drops significantly. Think of water. If you turn on all the water taps in your house, the water pressure drops significantly and the flow reduces through each tap as the water pressure reduces (that's voltage here) but the overall flow is very high (that's current). Hope that helps explains the observed voltages at max power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted November 19, 2023 Author Share Posted November 19, 2023 Alright ...... installation of the snakes. Now ... given the length of these bad boys I did not want to just feed them directly from the servo tray to their respective exits from the fuselage. I wanted to use the holes in the fuselage cross braces to add an amount of rigidity. I'm sure you can guess that this was going to be impossible to try and get the snakes through the existing holes as they were that tight ...... so ....... out came the scalpel ....... and I done this ...... and this .... an as I suspected .... the existing tubes were glued in. anyway ...... in goes the first elevator snake with a little bit of cutting around the exit to take the diameter of the outer snake ..... the second goes in ..... and then ..... the rudder control snake ..... note that I cut one of the snakes outers back at the cross member nearest the servo bay ..... should have gave it a couple of more inches. I did rethink it as I done snakes 2 and 3 .... and there we go ..... all 3 snakes installed and not to much flexibility accepted. Obviously I will have to recover the underside where I have cut out the access for the installation but I have white film ( Oracover ) and its an easy patch which will hardly be noticeable. I don't know if I'll get time to do the connections tonight as I have a bag to pack for my visit to Breda ( Netherlands ) tomorrow and won't be back until Friday evening so ..... the shed will be a little dormant for a few days. Haven't even recharged my batteries for the Domino since last weekend so that will be top of the list when I get back on Friday if the shout goes out for flying on the Saturday. Could have been doing that today as I was working on the above but my brain had not kicked in enough to think about that ..... idiot. cheers for now toto 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted November 19, 2023 Author Share Posted November 19, 2023 (edited) Hi Peter, The battery was just freshly charged / topped up. I think as suggested before on the thread, I need to delve into the way I am charging my batteries ..... balanced V fast charge etc. To be honest .... until now ..... I have only been to happy that I managed to be able to charge them at all. ( I appreciate that that is a bit of a statement to make ). I am flat out for the rest of the week working away from home but when I get back, educating myself a bit further with the charging of batteries is one of my top priorities. Its one thing steering clear of IC ( initially ) for a supposed easier time, but I do understand that the nature of Lipo batteries ( in particular ) brings its own learning curve. its a trade off. I'll maybe do a separate thread on how I am treating my batteries , my available equipment ( chargers ) and my protocol ( or lack thereof ). Usually I can sit in the shed any night of the week but lately my time has been used elsewhere. New contract and keeping the wolf from the door. Stay tuned though as I suspect that a bit of guidance in order to get myself on the right track and set myself a battery management plan will be neccessary. many thanks toto Edited November 19, 2023 by toto 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Learner Posted November 19, 2023 Share Posted November 19, 2023 22 minutes ago, Peter Jenkins said: When I was checking the power output in my new contra motor I had a fully charged 10S pack (42.00 V at full charge) and recorded a power output soon after take off in a vertical climb at full throttle of 3,600 W, 96 A and 37.5 V. That voltage drop is a bit more than Toto's experiment showed. So, I think that is probably correct. In normal usage, I rarely use more than 2,800 W and after flying my schedule of manoeuvres I land with the pack showing around 37.6 - 37.8 V. When I recharge the pack this usually equates to a figure of 3,000 - 3,300 mAh into a 4,800 mAh pack. Have you got actual figures to provide us that shows the max power and V and A readings or are you just surprised? You should remember that as you draw current the voltage will drop and the more current you draw the bigger the voltage drop. It's how batteries react and one of the reasons is their internal resistance. The more current you draw equates to reducing the external resistance and since the total resistance being seen by the battery is external + internal resistance the voltage drop measured across the external resistance, which is what we measure, drops significantly. Think of water. If you turn on all the water taps in your house, the water pressure drops significantly and the flow reduces through each tap as the water pressure reduces (that's voltage here) but the overall flow is very high (that's current). Hope that helps explains the observed voltages at max power. So your volts drop to 3.75 per cell and totos drop to 3.6 But your pulling double the amps. So I'm suprised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aidan mcatamney Posted November 19, 2023 Share Posted November 19, 2023 Your getting on well there Toto. The Tiger is starting to take shape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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