GrumpyGnome Posted July 30, 2023 Share Posted July 30, 2023 You're welcome. That's just the way I do it......... other methods are available 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted July 30, 2023 Author Share Posted July 30, 2023 I am now considering whether or not to fuel proof the engine bay .... everything beyond the fuselage firewall area. Now ..... I know what you are all going to say ..... no real need .... you are going electric on this. I agree ... but would it be good practice to give it a coat of something right from the start whilst I have easy access to it on the basis that this could be changed from battery to glow in the future ..... the something that I refer to is the finishing resin that I incorrectly purchased some time ago. it will slow down the ability to work on the motor bay until the resin has dried ..... probably into tomorrow but I have the wings that can keep me going until then. any quick thoughts / comments appreciated. toto 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff S Posted July 30, 2023 Share Posted July 30, 2023 (edited) That method of motor fitting is quite common. Here's how I fitted the motor to my balsa ARTF Wot4 It makes it easy to get the prop/spinner in the right place relative to the cowl. No Nyloc nuts used and I haven't had a problem over a lot of flights. There's also no cuneiform motor mount; I just attached the motor directly to the 3mm ply sub-mount using the same threads as would have been used with a metal mount. PS Absolutely no need to fuel proof the engine bay unless you want to fit a glow engine but it wouldn't be difficult to do that later. Edited July 30, 2023 by Geoff S 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyGnome Posted July 30, 2023 Share Posted July 30, 2023 If you want to do it, do it. If I'm fuel proofing, I also do the fuel tank area....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted July 30, 2023 Author Share Posted July 30, 2023 Thanks Geoff, much the same idea only I have these pre-sized standoff posts I can use .May as well use them as they are supplied and when used in conjunction with the supplied washers, spread the load over a greater area. not that it will matter much. Thanks for posting your picture up. Grumpy, I seriously doubt this will ever be converted. Its just my usual " what if " brain kicking into gear so I think I'll leave the fuel proofing for now ..... lets work on the " here and now ". I'm dreaming up far to many scenarios. On that basis ..... lets get around to fitting this part of the assembly. I'll be back toto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted July 30, 2023 Author Share Posted July 30, 2023 (edited) OK .... so I drilled fresh holes in the motor mounting plate as there were no holes that matched the required centres. I took care that the plate was mounted centrally and I am happy that all is good. I replaced the screw that were provided for this task as the provided screws only had a 2.5mm diameter where 4mm was required. I did however make use of the 4mm Nyloc nuts as there was nothing wrong with them. A good tight and strong fixing was attained. then mounted the whole assembly and screwed it back into the captive nuts using 70mm part threaded screws as supplied, washers and the packing pillars ..... a better image of it above ..... and the rear showing the screws in the captive nuts. They only just poke out from beyond the threads. I could dispense with some of the washers used in order to give the screw further length but I think its ok as it is. OK ..... thats that for now. I could mount the front nose wheel but I think I'll hang off with that for now as I think it will be more of a hindrance at this stage. Sooooo ..... it looks like I am about to re-familiarise myself with the wing construction again. I have been given the 10 minute warning signal that dinner will soon be ready so .... I'll leave starting that until my belly has been catered for ... 😀 cheers for now toto Edited July 30, 2023 by toto 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted July 30, 2023 Author Share Posted July 30, 2023 OK ..... I have started the wings .... however .... there needs to be a little preparation before you can start proper .... the instructions show where some cut outs are required on the film covering and there is a little bit more to be tidied up in advance of any expoxy hitting the scene. then I removed the ailerons prior to starting just to save them taking a knocking .... first on the agenda was opening up the servo cable exits for dropping into the fuselage from the upper wing ( remember this is a lower wingspan ) Then I removed the film that covers up the landing gear locations .... and then cut out the film to expose the wing bolt holes ..... both upper and lower wing surfaces. Then I had to look at the film overburden which flaps around the end of the wing. I wanted as much wood for a good strong epoxy join when it comes to joining the two halves together .... to get this ...... and this ...... that's where I am for the moment but I am away to try a dry fit of the two wing halves ..... and here it is ..... The wing joiner and the small wing locator pin ( black thingy ) a better shot ..... and the locating hole .... and they just slide together ..... there are two stoppers , one in each half of either wing to prevent the wing locating pole / brace from sliding in too far. I'd say it gives a pretty much half and half installation. and nearly getting all of the shot into the frame .... gives an idea of scale .... its pretty big. OK now I need to look at wiring for servo's and gluing in the aileron flaps ...... back later.... toto 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff S Posted July 30, 2023 Share Posted July 30, 2023 It will probably be easier to get the servo wiring in before you join the wings. Is there a piece of string to pull through or a tube to slide the extension leads along? If there are any connectors that will be hidden within the wing add some extra security so they can't unplug - strong thread held with CA or shrink-on tube for example. I've used both, though I prefer to solder the wires and protect them with shrink-on tube but connectors work provided they are secured firmly. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted July 30, 2023 Author Share Posted July 30, 2023 Next thing for me as mentioned was gluing the aileron flaps in place. the usual ..... pin the hinges to ensure they spread themselves pretty evenly between the aileron and the main wing section ...... trial fit the them to ensure that both the surfaces offer up to each one evenly once they are inserted into the hinge slots. just as well I tried this as the slots had not been cut clean and there was a load of wood inside the hinge slot preventing the hinge from going all the way home. I cleaned it out with my hinge slot tool and all was good. get ready to remove the pins .... nudge the aileron surface tight to the wing , bend the wing slightly and apply your CA to the hinges on both sides. Flex the aileron and the wing for a few seconds whilst the glue dries and stop the aileron potentially sticking to the wing along its whole length if your CA has maybe run down the join. and that is of course done twice. I think that's me for tonight in the shed. Tomorrow I will be back with the wing servo's, harnesses and joining the two wing halves together. cheers for now. toto 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted July 30, 2023 Author Share Posted July 30, 2023 Hi Geoff, I have these little plastic keepers that fit over both halves of the connectors and hold them tight. I would still wrap some insulation tape around these just to make sure. I'll post that up tomorrow. cheers toto 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyGnome Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 @toto are the wings supposed to be glued together then? That arrangement of front dowels, two rear bolts, a tubular spar and locator pin suggest it's a two piece wing - nice and compact for transport..... (I couldn't see a manual on-line to check). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted July 31, 2023 Author Share Posted July 31, 2023 (edited) Hi Grumpy You could be right. There is tape for covering the central Join. I'll double check . Hmmm I'll get back to you. Cheers Toto Just checked .... it does show the two wing halves being epixied together and the joining tape covering the John. There are locating dowels at the leading edge and bolts to the rear so I suppose you may get away without joining them ....... you had me thinking there. Cheers Toto Edited July 31, 2023 by toto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EarlyBird Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 22 minutes ago, GrumpyGnome said: That arrangement of front dowels, two rear bolts, a tubular spar and locator pin suggest it's a two piece wing - nice and compact for transport I agree it does look like a two piece wing but in the manual PH036-Tiger 3 A4 25 (phoenixmodel.com) They say glue together but also talk about a dihedral brace and box. Looks like they have updated the pictures but not the words. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leccyflyer Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 I think you are right - the text of those instructions make no sense when placed next to the drawings shown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted July 31, 2023 Author Share Posted July 31, 2023 (edited) So ..... to glue or not to glue ...... that ... is the question. From a storage point of view it's a pain but doable ... from transport point of view I already do the same thing with the Arising Star so makes no difference, from a set up point of view..... much easier. It's open for debate ..... Toto Ps ..... I think I am going to go ahead with the epoxy . I have a little remodeling of the shed to do yet and this will allow for hanging space specifically for the wings. I am also going to get around to making wing bags so that may help in the fight over hanger rash. It wont he happening until tonight .... possibly even tomorrow night as I have a couple of domestics for tonight. ( SWMBO has decreed ) so there is time to be convinced otherwise. I'm really thinking of the set up here...... faffing around with wing poles etc ..... just another thing to forget to take in the heat of the moment ..... but there again.... Toto Edited July 31, 2023 by toto 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Gray Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 If you have the space for storage and for transport then build it as a 1 piece wing, although as your collection expands and you take more models to the flying field you may regret that decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted July 31, 2023 Author Share Posted July 31, 2023 Hi Leccyflyer....... you are right about the destructions ..... these must be the vaguest ( at parts ) I've encountered yet. I am not going to bang on about it but believe me please when I say that the rudder and elevator instructions also do not match drawings to words. The control horns on both are shown ( very questionably ) at an angle to the joins to the main assembly with a very definite illustration showing the clevis at 90 degrees to the horn. Also .... as with most models that I have bought so far .... the instructions that come in the box, can slightly differ in detail to those available as free downloads on the internet. ..... those that come in the box tend to be better with a little more detail ...... so be careful if reading from the internet version. The images that show the control horns at angles are very dodgy as if the manufacturer want you to decide how to get round the task. I just followed their lead ..... maybe a little naivety from a newbie .....I should have asked. Toto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leccyflyer Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 I'd be inclined to jopin the two halves together as a one piece wing. You make an excellent point about rocking up at the field having forgotten to pack the wing tube. 🙂 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leccyflyer Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 Just now, toto said: Hi Leccyflyer....... you are right about the destructions ..... these must be the vaguest ( at parts ) I've encountered yet. I am not going to bang on about it but believe me please when I say that the rudder and elevator instructions also do not match drawings to words. The control horns on both are shown ( very questionably ) at an angle to the joins to the main assembly with a very definite illustration showing the clevis at 90 degrees to the horn. Also .... as with most models that I have bought so far .... the instructions that come in the box, can slightly differ in detail to those available as free downloads on the internet. ..... those that come in the box tend to be better with a little more detail ...... so be careful if reading from the internet version. The images that show the control horns at angles are very dodgy as if the manufacturer want you to decide how to get round the task. I just followed their lead ..... maybe a little naivety from a newbie .....I should have asked. Toto From the drawings you've posted the elevator pushrods look to be splayed, rather than with an explicit bend in them - the three things that you ideally want - for the holes in the control horn to be over the hinge line, for the pushrods to be at ninety degrees to the hinge line and for the control horn fixing holes to be aligned at 90 degrees to the hinge line may not be achievable, given the position where the pushrods exit the fuselage. As pointed out earlier, they missed a trick in not having the elevator halves joined together with a piano wire joiner. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted July 31, 2023 Author Share Posted July 31, 2023 Hi Ron, Never a truer word has been said. I already see issues for storage space. I have four models build ( to all intents and purposes ) and I reckon I may get another four ( just ) on my main wall. I have about another 6 or 7 to go including 2 twins, 2 bi-planesand another 3 or 4 single wings. That's before the 3 dancing wings ( smaller ) kits and the kestrel. I have maxed out , now having everything I want really with the exception of the beechcraft bonanza which will have to wait for now. I cant see all these fitting in the shed. It maybe a case that a couple remain unbuilt for now. I am bound to lose a couple due to " natural wastage " which will make room for the others. I also plan on a new shed but that's down the road a bit. Cheers Toto 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted July 31, 2023 Author Share Posted July 31, 2023 Hi Leccyflyer....I whole heartedly agree with what you say and especially with regards to joining the elevator pushrods. I can't put what I want to say into words ( as yet ) but a combination of their chosen geometry and the shape of the rudder and elevator sections ..... just where the pushrods naturally want yo meet is an issue. There is something that has been ill considered here ..... as I said ..... I think they have intentionally left this vague fir the builder to deal with. If you could physically see this for yourself, I think you would get my meaning. I had thought if posting pictures with some comments trying to illustrate my thoughts but to be honest, withdrew from that idea as I could see it causing an avalanche of differing opinions which would leave me a bit overwhelmed and even more unsure of the way to go ( said with all due respect to everyone that tends to provide me with assistance on here. It's much appreciated ). Toto 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Jenkins Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 (edited) I have flown aircraft with separate wings with a wing joiner tube and two pins front and rear to locate the wing correctly. The wings are held to the fuselage with 2 x 3 mm bolts with thumbscrew heads. The wings have never moved despite this being a fully aerobatic aircraft and having flown many snaps, knife edge manoeuvres etc. I would suggest Toto that you don't glue the wings together as there is really no need to do so. The joiner tube takes all the bending loads and the rear peg aligns the wings. The dowels and bolts at the rear secures the wing to the fuselage. I cannot see any reason to glue the wings together. I would glue the rear locating peg into one wing though. As to forgetting to take the wing tube with you (I did that once but was close enough to home to drive back and get it!) you could buy one of the Hobby King wing bags that has provision for the wing tube and will protect your wings during storage and transit. Probably no more expensive than the do it yourself wing bags I suggested some time ago! I also noticed that they have re-listed their control surface throw gauge which is a great way to set up control throws without having to measure the movement of a control surface. Set up 10 deg up and down for aileron and elevator and 25 deg each way for rudder to give you the low rate positions that will work pretty well for most aircraft. If your Tx allows three rates, you could set a middle rate a bit above this before you get to full rates. Edited July 31, 2023 by Peter Jenkins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted July 31, 2023 Author Share Posted July 31, 2023 Hi Peter, Thanks for the above. I have one of the control surface throw gauges albeit in what I think us an anodised blue aluminium. Still to try using it as yet. I wasn't sure if Hobbyking was a safe bet. Unless I'm confusing them for someone else, I thought they had stopped trading in the UK anyway. I'll have another look at them for wingbags. The jury is still out on the gluing of the wings. I just feel that once epixied together, it would be a stronger, safer more secure unit. The only downside is the storage. We'll see. Cheers for now Toto 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Gray Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 45 minutes ago, toto said: It would be a stronger, safer more secure unit. Not really, as Peter has said, the wing is designed with a wing tube which will take the majority of the loads imposed on the wing. As stated above, a one piece wing maybe more convenient (for you) but that really is the only reason to go down that route. Regarding the wing bags, the Hobby King ones are great, I’ve got quite a few of them but I did buy them when we had a UK store so they were very cheap and only suitable for 2 piece wings. Now I tend to make my own using bubble insulating foil (Amazon) and gaffer tape, these are quick to make, and obviously fit the wings much better than a generic bag plus they are way cheaper and you can make them to fit a 1 piece wing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 I've no doubt a one piece wing is more secure, belt n bracers. Two piece wings are common place now though and much better for a whole variety of reasons, loading up to go the field is much easier and hanger/car rash less likely, simply carrying in n out the hanger is a pain with one piece wings, down side ? Don't forget the wing tube when going flying. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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