Piers Bowlan Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 4 hours ago, Dale Bradly said: Toto you're probably realising that every question you post will have a multitude of possible answers. There usually isnt a right or wrong. Its as often as not what you feel comfortable with, or what you have on hand. I wont tell you how to do it, but if i was gluing the the tailplane components together, i would do as you say, with tape and "hinge" it together while the glue dries, sitting on the bench under some weight so it aint going anywhere. I would however use masking tape, as thats what i have on hand and will pull cleanly off the balsa without pulling wood fibres apart. And i would use PVA (or a derivative of). The one glue i wouldnt use is CA, as it carries the risk of setting up while im bringing the parts together while trying to line them up in 3 dimensions; and its a pain to sand cleanly. I do the vast majority of my model building with PVA. to answer your question, almost Any glue we use in general modelling is almost always significantly stronger than the wood components, so there is no concern around strength compromise. If in.doubt, try it. Glue some scraps together in a similar manner to the proposed joint and then once properly cured, break it. You be surprised. The common combination that i find doesnt work well is ply+CA, and of course big surface area will always adhere better than small surface area. YMMV in all areas of course. Personally I tape the back of the sheets and lay them on a sheet of cellophane and weigh down to ensure they are flat. Then I drop SMALLs dots of cyano along the line of the join to tack them together, being careful not to glue my weights to the wood! Once dry I lift from the board, remove tape and run cyano along the back of the joint line where the tape was. The cyano is drawn into the join by capillary action. The only downside of cyano is that it is so hard it does not sand well so aliphatic may be better. I find PVA doesn’t sand well as it is rubbery but then I have never tried it for joining sheets. Does take longer to dry though. More than one way of skinning a cat (apologies to moggy lovers!). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel R Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 (edited) 12 hours ago, toto said: I may have these top hats upside down ( on reflection ) Wrong (inserted from above): Right (inserted from underneath): See: https://hobbyking.com/en_us/blog/tips_on_rc_servo_installation_and_setup/?___store=en_us Edited October 20, 2023 by Nigel R 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted October 20, 2023 Author Share Posted October 20, 2023 Hi Nigel, Thanks for the attached. It's a very handy tutorial which really explains things well. I'll adjust to suit. Toto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted October 20, 2023 Author Share Posted October 20, 2023 (edited) Delivery from SLEC arrived today. Two replacement snakes and the steerable nose wheel control arm. Delighted . Shall be fitting those tonight after gluing my tail plane together. Also ordered some more Oracover ... Orange, sky blue and black to add to the white I already have. The Sky 40 will look like a flying can of Irn Bru. Back on track. Toto Edited October 20, 2023 by toto 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Stainforth Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 17 hours ago, toto said: Ok ..... a trial piece .... using this ..... and this .... pin the two pieces down .... and add packaging tape along its length ensuring that it has stuck ...... and once unpinned ..... you get this like the above ...... apply the thick Cyno along the join and weigh it down flat .... give a squirt of the accelerator ....... peel of the tape ..... and all seems well .... I didn't really spend any great time sanding the two edges ..... so they may not be perfect but it proves that the tape does not stick with the CA. I'm not trying to make a case for the CA in particular .... my concern is more that the aliphatic will take much longer to cure before the tape can be removed and the join truly hardens .... all opinions welcome .... I am maybe worrying over nothing .... toto What is worth doing is to trim the edges of the pieces of sheet to be joined with a very sharp knife along a steel straight edge. Then the two halves will fit together like a glove. I put CA along the back of the joint, which wicks into the joint - so sanding the other side is almost a non-issue. Done that way, the joint is almost invisible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aidan mcatamney Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 5 hours ago, toto said: Delivery from SLEC arrived today. Two replacement snakes and the steerable nose wheel control arm. Delighted . Shall be fitting those tonight after gluing my tail plane together. Also ordered some more Oracover ... Orange, sky blue and black to add to the white I already have. The Sky 40 will look like a flying can of Irn Bru. Back on track. Toto What did the television advert say all those years ago Toto? "IRN Bru. MADE FROM GIRDERS. " I think that was it or maybe I'm wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted October 20, 2023 Author Share Posted October 20, 2023 (edited) Absolutely correct Aidan ...... nowadays its ....... the Bru must get thru ....... all over the side of their wagons. 😄 Your other national drink !!! So ..... a bit of nostalgia for the day ..... but meanwhile ...... back in the shed. Here is what came from SLEC today ...... the missing control arm ..... two longer snakes ..... these fit from mid fuselage ..... to the rudder and elevator control surfaces on the tail plane ..... at least ..... this time they do with miles to spare .... to here .... see what I mean....... I then used the original elevator and rudder snakes to replace the throttle and steerable nose wheel snakes / push rods which were also short ... Throttle .... to throttle servo ..... and you can also see on the right the connection to the servo for the steerable nose control. and the steerable nose control arm as provided by SLEC today. A couple of things about the steerable nose leg. first there is a brass collet that fits on the underside of the fuselage just above the spring ...... not the best for access to tighten ..... but just doable ..... same with the screw on the actual control arm ..... not accessible at all so the engine will need to be removed in order to get a screw driver in from the hole in the fire wall. Not ideal but just a minor inconvenience. another shot of the brass collet I am talking about above the spring once the steering leg is removed ..... I will keep this out for now as it just gets in the way. Final installation will be later .... this time was purely for gauging the length of the snakes / push rods. the steerable nose wheel removed once the snake length was determined. The above steerable noseleg was in fact Part 48 but, as it is only a test fit to gauge snake lengths , I will cover the permanent installation in more detail as it happens later. OK ...... that is that for now. I still need to lift the servo's out to reverse the fitting of the small brass top hats that fit inside the rubber grommets but I will do that slightly later as It will be best done once I am ready to install the elevator and rudder surfaces when fitting the control horns. Some final adjustment will be needed then anyway. That's me for now. I am away to look at starting to prepare the elevator and rudder tail plane sections prior to gluing them together. slow progress but progress never the less. Hope fully back later tonight. toto Edited October 20, 2023 by toto 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted October 20, 2023 Author Share Posted October 20, 2023 OK ..... so here is what is next ...... The gluing of the elevator and rudder tail sections .... but notice not the actual control surfaces themselves. The two above elements are both covered in Part 24 which was going to be tackled prior to the snakes and nosewheel arm came but since they came super quick ( thanks to SLEC ) I just finished them off first. The destructions call for the TWO parts both named T1 to be glued together then also glued to T2. ..... Then glue the TWO parts both named T4 together. Once this is done leave to dry. next is to sand a rounded sec tion to the leading edges of both these components. Also chamfer the leading edges of the rudder T3 and elevator T5 to form a pointed hinge section. test fit the tail plane and fin but do not glue into position. The above is just a description of the the individual tasks coming next and these shall be further detailed as I do them and photo's included ....... That's for tomorrow. cheers for now toto 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aidan mcatamney Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 From Irn Bru to a cup of tea, that's what I'm having now Toto. My favourite brand too which had this Television advert many years ago. It went something like this. "Pick Punjana Tea, Pick Punjana Tea. Savour the flavour, big tea flavour, Pick Punjana Tea" 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted October 20, 2023 Author Share Posted October 20, 2023 and why not indeed Sir ..... I'm retiring to the house now with my best mate john Smith. I'm going over in my head the sequence for the above and visualising how I am going to get a decent finish to leading edges etc. I should know it by now as I try to work a step ahead confirming to myself what I am about to do. These steps where you only really get one shot at shaping these surfaces are quite exciting and are the elements where you have the chance to improve your skills and actually " add " to the model. fingers crossed it turns out well. not far away from the dreaded wing construction, hopefully the shaping elements on the tail plane will give me more confidence as I progress towards the wings. time will tell toto 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted October 20, 2023 Author Share Posted October 20, 2023 One last minute thing before retiring for the night ..... I remembered that the question was asked if the exhaust would fit without fouling the fuselage ..... here are a couple of pictures showing the clearances ..... which look fine ....... apologies for the crappy photos .... i didn't want to screw the thing together just jet as there is no real need for now. and the last one for now. cheers toto 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aidan mcatamney Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 44 minutes ago, toto said: One last minute thing before retiring for the night ..... I remembered that the question was asked if the exhaust would fit without fouling the fuselage ..... here are a couple of pictures showing the clearances ..... which look fine ....... apologies for the crappy photos .... i didn't want to screw the thing together just jet as there is no real need for now. and the last one for now. cheers toto That looks fine Toto. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted October 21, 2023 Author Share Posted October 21, 2023 OK .... shed time soon to tackle the tail plane elements ..... but before I do it'll be time to swap over the plans from the fuselage ..... to the wing. I'll do this before committing the board space to building the twil plane because once I do ..... I'll need to leave it to dry on the flat surface under weight. ... should only take five minutes. Just awaiting my tea then it's time to get fired in about it ..... Toto 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted October 21, 2023 Author Share Posted October 21, 2023 OK .... hit the shed .... and the wing plan has been sliced into two .... left and right ... we have the right on the board ..... and the left hanging in front of me for now .... The protective plastic covering goes back on .... same piece as used for the fuselage ..... how's that for value ..... and the tools and parts laid out for the tail plane to start ..... back soon .... toto 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted October 21, 2023 Author Share Posted October 21, 2023 I started with the horizontal tail plane ...... gave the meeting edges a very slight sand to take away any imperfections caused by the sprue. we are talking the slightest passing with a sanding block 220 grit. no more needed than that. next was to pin the two parts down and apply my packaging tape along the join ..... then remove the pins and bend the join ..... apply the aliphatic glue .... then lay tape side down and place some weights on the piece. I also applied a couple of clamps to keep the joint tight. Only slight pressure on the clamps so as not to damage the balsa ...... Now it is left to dry. The Aliphatic takes 10 to 20 minutes to dry apparently but I will be leaving it to dry properly overnight. I will remove the tape in about 20 minutes though as the glue should have at least taken by then. Now .... on to the vertical stabilisor ..... back soon ..... toto 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted October 21, 2023 Author Share Posted October 21, 2023 I started with the horizontal tail plane ...... gave the meeting edges a very slight sand to take away any imperfections caused by the sprue. we are talking the slightest passing with a sanding block 220 grit. no more needed than that. next was to pin the two parts down and apply my packaging tape along the join ..... then remove the pins and bend the join ..... apply the aliphatic glue .... then lay tape side down and place some weights on the piece. I also applied a couple of clamps to keep the joint tight. Only slight pressure on the clamps so as not to damage the balsa ...... Now it is left to dry. The Aliphatic takes 10 to 20 minutes to dry apparently but I will be leaving it to dry properly overnight. I will remove the tape in about 20 minutes though as the glue should have at least taken by then. Now .... on to the vertical stabilisor ..... back soon ..... toto 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted October 21, 2023 Author Share Posted October 21, 2023 So ..... the same as the horizontal stabilisor ..... a very slight sanding to the mating edges to ensure square and that any left over sprue is taken away .... The parts are then aligned and pinned down to keep them steady. Packaging tape is then applied along the two joins ..... remove the pins and bend the joins ..... apply the Aliphatic glue along the joins .... lay the piece flat on the build board and clear away any excess glue that oozes out. then apply some weight to keep things falt and wait to dry . I'll give both of these parts well past their theoretical curing time of say half an hour then remove the tape from the underside and leave to fully cure until tomorrow ..... Time to start looking at the wing assembly ahead of commencing their build. cheers for now toto 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murat Kece 1 Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 2 hours ago, toto said: I started with the horizontal tail plane ...... gave the meeting edges a very slight sand to take away any imperfections caused by the sprue. we are talking the slightest passing with a sanding block 220 grit. no more needed than that. next was to pin the two parts down and apply my packaging tape along the join ..... then remove the pins and bend the join ..... apply the aliphatic glue .... then lay tape side down and place some weights on the piece. I also applied a couple of clamps to keep the joint tight. Only slight pressure on the clamps so as not to damage the balsa ...... Now it is left to dry. The Aliphatic takes 10 to 20 minutes to dry apparently but I will be leaving it to dry properly overnight. I will remove the tape in about 20 minutes though as the glue should have at least taken by then. Now .... on to the vertical stabilisor ..... back soon ..... toto Hi Toto Where did you get those weights? Regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted October 21, 2023 Author Share Posted October 21, 2023 Hi Murat, I'll need to double check. They are widely available and are toolmakers weights. There is considerable weight behind them and are an ideal size. They come coated in oil which I have cleaned off a bit so as not to stain the balsa. I'll get back to you tomorrow with the details kind Sir. Toto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted October 21, 2023 Author Share Posted October 21, 2023 So ...... we are a little further on ..... But ....... The tailplane both vertical and horizontal have their leading edges which ( from memory and which will be checked ) need to be profiled. I'll need to check my Icelandic freind ( who doesn't know he has a freind ) video series. Not a big deal but what these videos don't show is how the sequence of profiling, fitting servo horns and covering for final fit goes. My intention goes like this ...... Once the horizontal and vertical stabilisers are cured ( tomorrow ) ..... do a quick test fit as they are to see if there are any issues. If all is well .... set them aside for now and concentrate on the wings. My reasoning is that I'd rather do the forming of the leading edges when I come to fitting the rudder and elevator control surfaces. Once I have sanded the rudder and elevator edges to mate with the horizontal and vertical tail plane, I will cut for the hinges and loose fit the whole assembly together. I can then do a final fit on the snakes etc ensuring all mate properly. My intention would then be to cover the surfaces with film , fit the hinges, fit into position , cut away the film of the mating edges and glue into position fitting the control horns. Leaving it as late in the process will hopefully minimise any potential hanger rash as well. The series of videos that I have been following are good .... but I think ( on hindsight ) are maybe as comprehensive when it comes to the order in which the model is covered. Maybe I am missing something there. They are still the best by far of any video build coverage that I have come across so no criticism really intended. In summary..... I suppose what I am saying is that the next task after tonight will be to lay aside the tail plane for now and start on the wings. The completion of the tailplane including the snake connections and servo testing will reappear once the wings are complete. ..... I repeat ..... the main reason is potentially increasing the potential for hanger rash. I hope the above makes sense. Cheers for now ..... until tomorrow .... Toto 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Gray Posted October 22, 2023 Share Posted October 22, 2023 9 hours ago, Murat Kece 1 said: Hi Toto Where did you get those weights? Regards They are engineer’s blocks and are available on Amazon, Chronos to name but 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted October 22, 2023 Author Share Posted October 22, 2023 Chronos is ringing a bell. Toto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outrunner Posted October 22, 2023 Share Posted October 22, 2023 4 hours ago, Ron Gray said: They are engineer’s blocks and are available on Amazon, Chronos to name but 2. They call them 321 blocks, 1" X 2" X 3" in size but metric ones are available now. The idea is you can bolt several of them together if needed for work holding on a machine tool. Bit of a sacreledge using a precision block for a weight, but needs must. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted October 22, 2023 Author Share Posted October 22, 2023 Hi Outrunner, They can also be used to very good effect on fuselage jigs as " squares " as well due to being machined to very exacting tolerances. They are expensive but should last well if taken care of. If putting away between builds, a slight smear of sewing machine oil should prevent any rusting. They come oiled but I wiped the vast majority off so as not to mark the building materials. Toto 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff S Posted October 22, 2023 Share Posted October 22, 2023 They certainly are expensive compared to the old sealed lead/acid batteries I use, which cost nothing and are also quite accurate right-angled supports. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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