ARTF quality

[Adrian Smith 1]

 

Hi Iain,

 

I had a similar experience with the Weston Capiche 140 ARTF canopy. You only needed to blow on it and it split in 3 or 4 places and that's even before I built the plane!! Sadly I bought the plane direct from Westom (at full price I may add, but I should have bought it 30 quid cheaper at Inwoods if I had done my research properly) and I had to pay 20 odd quid for another one from them as they wouldn't replace it. The probably broke into another kit for it...ho hum.

 

Hi YakMad,

 

would that be the same H9  RV-8 reviewed in the Jan 2010 RCME? The quality of kit was assessed as excellent!! Sometimes I wonder what drives these reviews as time and again we as consumers don't get the full story.

 

  

[Pete B]

Please correct me if I'm wrong but I imagine distributors supply the magazines with the kits for review. This would arguably give them an opportunity to, shall we say, apply a bit more 'Quality Control' to those kits..........

 

Let's face it, most 'dislikes' in kit reviews don't cover broken or missing parts, rather such things as confusing or inadequate instructions, or fundamental flaws which aren't easily corrected.

 

Perhaps magazines should acquire the review kits by buying them at random from retailers, as we do. That way we'd get a 'warts and all' review which we could be more confident was not subject to, err, influences.

 

Pete

[Ultymate]

Posted by Adrian Smith 1 on 05/01/2010 12:11:56:

 

Hi Iain,

 

I had a similar experience with the Weston Capiche 140 ARTF canopy. You only needed to blow on it and it split in 3 or 4 places and that's even before I built the plane!! Sadly I bought the plane direct from Westom (at full price I may add, but I should have bought it 30 quid cheaper at Inwoods if I had done my research properly) and I had to pay 20 odd quid for another one from them as they wouldn't replace it. The probably broke into another kit for it...ho hum.

 

Hi YakMad,

 

would that be the same H9  RV-8 reviewed in the Jan 2010 RCME? The quality of kit was assessed as excellent!! Sometimes I wonder what drives these reviews as time and again we as consumers don't get the full story.

 

  

 How can one do an in depth review on an ARTF model, by it's very nature it's almost completely built by the time it arrives with the end user. All you can do is comment on the final assembly tasks suitability of the hardware etc and finally the flying abilities of the model. At the end of the day you cannot build model aeroplanes to hit the ground.

             All that said yes there are some shortcomings for sure but remember the people that do the actual build are doing so for little more than bowls of rice, the models are then shipped around the globe most passing through the hands of middle men who all want a slice of the "action" they then arrive with us the modellers and are by and large far cheaper than you can get an equivalent kit build job to the field for. I fly large scale aerobatic stuff and have for several years now flown ARTFS because quite honestly it's uneconomical to do otherwise. I desperately miss having something to build during the winter months but there's simply no point in doing so.

                     One final point some of the guys I come across bemoaning the way ARTF's are built are the same guys I can remember having trouble sticking two Lego bricks together back in the day before ARTFs hit the streets

[Myron Beaumont]

Build your own !

[Tim Mackey]

Posted by Pete B on 05/01/2010 12:31:22:

Please correct me if I'm wrong but I imagine distributors supply the magazines with the kits for review. This would arguably give them an opportunity to, shall we say, apply a bit more 'Quality Control' to those kits..........

 

Let's face it, most 'dislikes' in kit reviews don't cover broken or missing parts, rather such things as confusing or inadequate instructions, or fundamental flaws which aren't easily corrected.

 

Perhaps magazines should acquire the review kits by buying them at random from retailers, as we do. That way we'd get a 'warts and all' review which we could be more confident was not subject to, err, influences.

 

Pete

 

Not always no. Sometimes yes the item is sent to the mag by a supplier and passed to a reviewer, however on many occasions the kit was purchased by the reviewer himself.

Also, I doubt very much that the kits that do get sent in are "specially prepared" as I know of several instances where kits have found to be faulty by reviewers, and returned to the supplier - in fact I have just finished parcelling up an item I have been sent for review - in order to return it to the distributor as it is faulty! 

I believe In most cases the supplier is given the opportuntiy to send a replacement.

[Pete B]

Thanks, Timbo - that's reassuring - and quite enlightening!

 

Pete

[YakMad]

Stephen,

 

           The wings plug into the fuz so can't be glued together.

 

 

Kelvin,

 

 

          It does put doubt in my mind about Hanger9 it's why I must open the wings on the replacement for my own peave of mind.

 

 

Timbo,

 

 

         I am hoping that it's a Friday kit but the replace wing root looks the same and there was other issues I noticed in the wrecked model which has me slightly worried.

[Stephen Grigg]

Hi YakMad,sorry to here that Ive just bought the Hangar 9 Pulse and I can glue the wings together on that one although its not in the instructions

[YakMad]

Stephen,

 

 

 

        I've test flown a club members Pulse which was fine and he used it as his low wing trainer, it's wings were left as standard and it had a hard but short few months of life, the wing did'nt fail he messed up one landing to many and did'nt feel like fixing it.  I've had a couple of Hanger9 3d type models Funtana  50 and 100 and threated them fairly hard but no wing failures but the root rib design was different on both of them. The RV-8 was treated gentle indeed it was 'nt until the third flight that I even started to roll it, something that any cheap trainer would handle with ease. I posted this just to flag the issue in case anyone else has one or it building one. Hopefully this weekend I will get around to opening the wing up and I will post my findings although looking thru the hole for the servos leads in the root rib it all looks the same as my first model.

[Adrian Smith 1]

Hi Ultymate,

 

I can't really agree with you on this. The H9 RV 8 in question that was reviewed cost in excess of £200 and one would expect it to be up to scratch for that money. If a review of any sort is unable to test the item enough to find these things out then any review is a waste of time

 

I am sure if you spent 200 quid on a Dyson vacuum and it did't pick up dust you'd be the first to whinge about it.

 

I am not sure what sort of point you are trying to make in the analogy of 2 lego bricks which I find both unhelpful and disingenuous and add nothing to the debate.

[David Ashby - Moderator]

Well of course I've reviewed the H9 RV-8 recently and am sorry to hear of this. You're assuming the fault affects all the models produced Adrian which isn't always the case. The review model hasn't exhibited or shown any weakness in this area - that's all I can really say - good to learn of the retailer's response though.  

Edited By David Ashby - RCME Administrator on 05/01/2010 15:49:57

[Stephen Grigg]

Hi YakMad,I think a thread on what you find and  what mods you carried out to your satisfaction would be interesting Do you have any photos of the model also

[Ultymate]

What I'm trying to get at with the two Lego bricks analogy as you put it is, that I know many people who were and probably still are totally incapable of building a decent model aeroplane from a kit a plan or any other means and yet these same people bemoan the quality of ARTFs which are built to a far higher standard than they could ever achieve themselves. As for spending £200+ on the H9 RV8 then take it back or take legal action.As for the review issue as I said in my first post what is the reviewer to do physically dismantal/disect the model and then rebuild it or fly another one. I'm afraid in the real world it doesn't quite work like that. At the end of the day it's only toy aeroplanes at least for me it is.

[Stephen Grigg]

I just looked the model up on there website looks nice doesnt it. I understand what Ultymate is saying,,when you get an ARTF  what you receive in the box is loads of value for money,but I think some things like U/C strength isnt thought out enough by designers of the models and its disapointing to have a brand new aeroplane that you land correctly and it falls apart.I think in your instance YakMad its worse than that a model falling apart in the air is dangerous and not acceptable

[Adrian Smith 1]

 

They may be toy aeroplanes to you mate, but they have to be fit for purpose particularly if they come apart in the air and maim somebody or worse on their way down to the ground. 

Edited By David Ashby - RCME Administrator on 05/01/2010 17:22:14

[Simon B]

I've just bought a Jamara Minimod Edge and it's got the usual thing that winds me up about ARTF models, especially electric, as it's been made too light.  I'm all for weight saving, but with more powerful motors being cheap as hell these days, why do they still insist on making the frame look like matchsticks? 

 

I built a similar sized West Wings Toucan and it used sheet balsa and was sturdy as hell and i could use the same motor i'm using in this kit. 150 - 200w motor/ESC combos are about £20 - £30 from BRC, so why try and make it excessively light?

 

Edited By Simon B on 05/01/2010 17:06:01

[Aslan]

Sounds to me like the wing retainer wasn't tied/glued,to anything other than the root rib???

If this is so,then that is a major fault with the wing design and should be corrected.... as was stated before,this is actually a danger to everyone. I don't see the point of even attempting to glue wings together that are meant to be joined using the usual wing tube set up........ defeats the whole purpose surely. In fairness to Sussex they did replace the model, a bit too easily for my liking,and I'm not getting at Sussex here at all, before anyone starts at me, have dealt with them many many times,but is this a known fault with RV-8,and Hangar 9 didn't bother to correct it. Any pics. Yakmad? 

[Stephen Grigg]

I glue the wings together because that is the recommended procedure when putting together Seagull models as per there instructions,so what purpose am I defeating Aslan

[Aslan]

You suggested the wing halves on the RV-8 be glued together,Impossible and not recommended......so chill.... Obviously, unless I'm missing something here, with a one piece wing that arrives in two halves, you glue both halves together (about 99.9% of them) and I've glued many a wing together..... So what point are you making Stephen?

[Stephen Grigg]

I had a Multiplex Mentor, the wings were not recommended or suggested that they be glued together.Im not very experienced and a club colleague who also bougjht the same model and glued his wings together.I asked why and he explained that whenever ;p[ossible he glues his wings together because they are then much stronger.I did the same on mine and it was much better.When I looked up the particular model on the Hangar 9 website it looked like it may be possible to glue the wings together hence my suggestion.Having just purchased the Hangar 9 Pulse 40 XT which has a similar wing fixing as the Seagull models i have I made the suggestion out of interest more than anything else as if it were possible it would possibly have srengthened the problem.So the point I was making was that wings that can be possibly glued together would be stronger,but now that YakMad pointed out that they bolt directly onto the fuselage unforunately in this instance its not a possibility.Im now going home to glue my wings together

[Aslan]

You came across to me as though I was getting at you for some reason or other,which is complete rubbish from your part. I simply pointed out that in general, in fact all of the two part wing models that I have, bolt onto the fuse in some way or other with  wing tube. Why was it much better having to lug around a large wing on the Mentor,when there was no need to do so whatsoever...... Please don't say the flight characteristics improved....... You have 2936 forum posts..... How am I to know you are not very experienced. Simple,take it like a man and say perhaps you are right Tubby lad(me),they should not have needed to be glued together (not sure what the question mark means,so I'll leave it out ) Make sure you use 30min. epoxy and roughen up the ply joiner for a good bond. Baby wipes will work great for wiping away any excess glue and it would do no harm to run Masking tape around the airfoil at the root before applying the epoxy. I'll get me coat now.

[Stephen Grigg]

Hiu Aslan  I have bungee straps  crossways in my car and can carry 4 sets of wings so I have no problems with 60 inch wings,I  suppose thats why its not a problem for me.Its also a lot easier at the field.Heres on Ive just done

[Aslan]

Sorry mate you lost me here,what have you done? That's a two piece wing,mounted with a wing tube and bolted to the fuse,as per normal......but you joined it together to make it one piece?....... or...... its a one piece wing that comes in two halves and you joined it together as per normal?.....I've no idea what you're point is. But I will say this it is "generally" impossible and way too much trouble to join a wing to make it one piece when it has been designed to bolt on to the fuse........ now obviously a high winger is a different kettle of fish altogether and eezy peezy,and imho unnecessary 'cos they are not "generally" something one would be goin' bananas with. Now let's get back to the dodgy (and dangerous) Hangar 9 RV-8. Final word-You should NOT have to join a wing together to make safe a manufacturers bad design.

[Stephen Grigg]

I totally agree with you Aslan

[Kelly]

I wonder if ARTF manufacturers, as a option, could start making uncovered airframes, with the covering included for us to apply? 

 

This would allow us to check  the airframe. 

 

A bit more work for us but peace of mind and a model fit for the job.

 

I would like to build from plans or kits,but I do not have the time or space to build as I

used to do when I was younger

 

Kelvin