Why use daft terms like Kv and WOT?

[kc]

Why use daft terms like Kv and WOT?

Surely these terms are confusing and it would be better to use ‘ Revs per volt ‘ and ‘Full speed’

Who invented such terms? Why?

Lets change to plain English!

[Plummet]

Thanks.

 

The term kv is certainly one that should be consigned to the swill bucket, as it already has a valid electrical meaning of kilovolt. Surely krpv makes more sense.

 

Plummet

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

The k doesn't have any relarion to kilo so I'd suggest the suggested krpv would be better as rpV

 

However, I expect kv makes perfect sense in the originator's language...it's now accepted worldwide and has a well known and clear definition.

 

As for WOT, it means Wide Open Throttle which doesn't actually equate to full speed. It simply means the"tap" whether of the electrical or carbettor variety is fully open (with brakes on at the end of the runway this can be zero speed) so we're immediately clouding the issue by suggesting an alternative, which can be misinterpreted, to a widely accepted and unambiguous term!

 

With any technology you do need to spend a little while learning the accepted terminology so I can't really accept that the examples quoted are "daft" when they are quite specific.

 

Daft ones would be those that made things unclear by being poorly defined and ambiguous, which these particular ones aren't.

Edited By Martin Harris on 02/03/2011 13:36:33

[kc]

These terms are poorly defined!

K usually means a thousand which it does not in this context. Also there is no throttle on electric motors! So daft is apropriate. However for clarity I would accept Full Throttle or Full Power as much better than some acronym which has a completly different meaning to aeromodellers. ( WOT has been used for decades to refer to the Chris Foss great designs )

 

Acronyms are confusing and should not be used where simple English would be better.

 

Edited By kc on 02/03/2011 14:07:08

[Doug Ireland]

Hear Hear,

 

It was a while before I found out what WOT meant (not long ago either) and I've been playing this game for years!

 

Oh and another one, "ROG"! Who thought that one up?

[Plummet]

Posted by Martin Harris on 02/03/2011 13:29:42:

The k doesn't have any relarion to kilo so I'd suggest the suggested krpv would be better as rpV

<snip/>

Edited By Martin Harris on 02/03/2011 13:36:33

Sorry. I thought that in modeling speak the kv meant thousands of rpm per volt. 10kv meant 10,000 revs per minute per volt. Was I wrong?

 

Plummet

[Steve W-O]

I thought wot was a question in London.

 

The right hand pedal in a car is not an accelerator.

 

If we are going to stick to simple English, whose going to decide what is simple?

 

And what area of England is going to own the simple English? (or what country?)

 

Should we insist as well that all spoken English is RP to avoid misunderstandings

 

Acronyms are confusing to those who don't know what they mean, rather like a foreign language but to those who understand, like another language, they are useful and meaningful.

 

It would be nice to get rid of them, but I think that would make half the civil service redundant

[Chris Bott - Moderator]

RP ?

[Steve W-O]

Received Pronunciation

[kc]

Yes, Plummet you are wrong! A typical brushless motor is described as 1000Kv and it does not do a million revs per volt! Just 1000 revolutions per volt.

 

Many retailers describe their products in Kv and I wonder how they stand under the Trades Description Act? Supposing one understood this to mean it would be well within limits if plugged into a 240 volt mains! (don't try this at home! ) Maybe if a brushless motor goes wrong - just goes wrong in any way - they would not have a leg to stand on in Court if you sued them? Anyone know a 'no win no fee' lawyer'?

Perhaps this thought will cause abandonment of this stupid term which is so easily misunderstood.

 

 

To Steve WO.

Wot is RP? Yes, we should all speak BBC English. . ..... er, British Broadcasting Corporation  newsreader English!

Edited By kc on 02/03/2011 16:34:28

Edited By kc on 02/03/2011 16:38:27

[Steve W-O]

Posted by kc on 02/03/2011 16:33:00:

To Steve WO.

Wot is RP? Yes, we should all speak BBC English. . ..... er, British Broadcasting Corporation newsreader English!

Edited By kc on 02/03/2011 16:34:28

 

 

The old BBC newsreader, these days you wonder what has happened.

 

House and her have h's in front ( not Haitches) and the G in singer and hanger are soft, not like the G in go. Road is not pronounced rord

 

 

Good luck to you kc, I would love to see it (hear it), but we are more likely to see taxes reduced!

[Sparks]

Personally, I see no problem with Kv.

 

Upper case 'K' does not indicate kilo ('k' does)

Lower case 'v' does not indicate volt ('V' does)

 

'Kv' is simply a constant

 

Unit symbols are generally upper case if they are attributed to the inventor e.g. 'V' after Allesandro Volta, 'A' after Andre Ampere. Lower case if not, e.g. 's' for second.

 

Mr Pedantic!

[kc]

Well Sparks may be technically correct, but it is too confusing. You can see above that even several very experienced aeromodellers ( check their other comments over the months ) misunderstood these acronyms. In respect of electrical ( safety issue ) it is not acceptable to rely on correct capitals for the exact meaning.

 

My point is that for any written work if a term or acronym is not defined in a normal English dictionary it should be defined in the glossary in each copy of the magazine etc. Otherwise it's gibberish to anyone new.

 

Steve, I don't have any particular objection to the newsreaders we get now on London news programmes. Maybe the regional area news people need some lessons from Angela Rippon though. You will see taxes reduced.....Cameron will reduce them for the rich!

Edited By kc on 02/03/2011 17:41:47

[Allan Bowker]

Queue Timbo.....

[Tim Mackey]

The hobby / sport ( as with most ) is riddled with acronyms, as are most others, and one soon gets to learn what they are if one really wants to. We started an excellent glossary here some time back, and I for one always try to elaborate in my articles as to what the abbreviations stand for.

 

Cant see what all the fuss is about TBH - oops, sorry should have said To Be Honest.

[Peter Beeney]

I guess these descriptions have been around for quite a while, and are frequently used by modellers; and as such are probably not easily going to be discarded, and I have to agree that that is unfortunate. I’ve don’t think I’ve ever seen the term, Kv, (kV is kilovolt), used as a reference to electrical motor rpm’s anywhere else other than in modelling magazines. Having now had a bit of a poke around, that may be correct, Collins New English Dictionary makes no mention, and it is pretty comprehensive, Google may be another good indicator, but that only appears to return Wiki, with a single reference to the rpm of a brushless motor (Written by a modeller, perhaps?). More telling, perhaps, on checking a 400 page Newnes modern (2006) textbook, Electric Motors and Drives, Fundamentals, Types and Applications, by Austin Hughes, this only refers to rpm’s as an expression in relation to the speed of the motor. So it may well be that the term, Kv, is possibly only used in the modelling world anyway.

The description, brushless motor, also seems to be a bit of an afterthought. Although it’s fairly accurate, unlike Kv, it seems it’s only so-called because no one could think up a proper name.

WOT is pretty universal, I think, but it always makes me think of a cartoon character called CHAD. Which is an indicator that my useless long-term memory still works, maybe, but the rather more valuable short-term version is certainly open to question at times.

PB

[Mowerman]

The one that gets me wound up is RPMs.

RPM stands for revolutions per minute not revolution per minutes

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

IMO this is OTT IFSWIM.

 

Watt/WOT/What kv/KV/kV/Kv means is surely obvious.

 

BEB

 

'When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.' Alice Through the Looking Glass - Lewis Carroll

Edited By Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 02/03/2011 20:00:59

[PatMc]

Like most abbreviations they have to be taken in the context that they are applied. Many abbreviations are not at first understood but when they are explained they are useful shorthand.

 

I was taught that when introducing an abbreviation for the first time it was good practice to use the whole text in a passage followed by the abbreviation in brackets & use the abbreviation from then on.

[Ultymate]

What's the collective noun for a pedantic bunch of "*****"

[Plummet]

Posted by kc on 02/03/2011 16:33:00:

Yes, Plummet you are wrong! A typical brushless motor is described as 1000Kv and it does not do a million revs per volt! Just 1000 revolutions per volt.

 

I'm OK. I'm used to it.

 

P

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

Posted by Plummet on 02/03/2011 20:50:29:

Posted by kc on 02/03/2011 16:33:00:

Yes, Plummet you are wrong! A typical brushless motor is described as 1000Kv and it does not do a million revs per volt! Just 1000 revolutions per volt.

 

I'm OK. I'm used to it.

 

P

.....I'm married

[PatMc]

Posted by Ultymate on 02/03/2011 20:42:27:
What's the collective noun for a pedantic bunch of "*****"

An IMAC.

[Lima Hotel Foxtrot]

Posted by Ultymate on 02/03/2011 20:42:27:
What's the collective noun for a pedantic bunch of "*****"

Forumites.

[PatMc]

Posted by Lima Hotel Foxtrot on 02/03/2011 21:35:26:

Posted by Ultymate on 02/03/2011 20:42:27:
What's the collective noun for a pedantic bunch of "*****"

Forumites.

Hate to be pedantic but that's not a collective noun. It the plural of a singular noun.