Which is best suited to soldering Lipo leads?

[Erfolg]

I have been contemplating buying a heavy duty soldering iron for some time.

I am torn between two, a Lidl soldering gun and a HK soldering iron.

Both are much the same price after HK postage.

Has any one an opinion if either is better than the other, does it matter, will either do the job?

[Rusty C]

I find that anything less than 100w difficult to keep hot enough, Just my opinion though.

Rusty

[kc]

My understanding is that soldering gun type can wreck delicate electronics.

I wonder if the very cheap HK iron is CE marked or might get stopped at customs as not meeting regulations..  In any case the plug is wrong for Britain.

I recently bought a cheap ( 9 pound ) Maplin 40 watt iron which works well for Lipo & ESC leads. Old fashioned tin lead solder is easier to use in most peoples view. ( Compnent Shop sell it still )

It's the lead free solder needing higher temp which means new soldering irons. Buying 'old' solder is cheaper way out!

Edited By kc on 27/06/2012 17:31:58

[Rusty C]

Posted by kc on 27/06/2012 17:24:30:

My understanding is that soldering gun type can wreck delicate electronics.

I bought a cheap ( 9 pound ) Maplin 40 watt iron which works well for Lipo & ESC leads. Old fashioned tin lead solder is easier to use in most peoples view. ( Compnent Shop sell it still )

It's the lead free solder needing higher temp which means new soldering irons. Buying 'old' solder is cheaper way out!

Thats why! thanks for that info, I always thought it was easier to solder a wee while back

Rusty

[Erfolg]

At the end of the day it is a soldering iron. The sort of thing that was once churned out in there thousands before CE marks, in the UK. Plugs can easily be changed, I am not of the opinion that a peice of government paper is needed to fit a plug., many untrained house wifes and men have managed the process sucessfully, for many years.

I bet the Lidl gun is CE marked, I also suspect it comes from the Far East, maybe the same factory.

I do use lead solder, for the same reasons as outlined.

[Garbo]

My HK soldering iron only lasted a day though others have had more success, and those soldering guns are not great.

[Tim Mackey]

I dont like the gun type as I dont believe the tip is meaty enough to hold its heat when soldering large guage wires and connectors. I know others will disagree - but for me a nice 80 Watt or so BIG TIPPED iron is the way to go, especially if you ever need to solder cable directly to a cell...it can be achieved quickly with one of these, which is vital if you are to avoid overheating the cells.

This what I use for the heavy stuff

[kc]

Erfolg, of course you and I can safely change a plug. The point is if they Xray it or even feel it a non UK plug is a dead giveaway to Customs that it's not up to UK spec. They might object and confiscate it. I cannot see it's worth that risk.

[JC]

Anything less than 100w will not be of much use.

I use a gas soldering iron for two reasons: It gets very hot and I can use it at he patch if required.

It also has an attachment to use on heat shrink tubing.

[buster prop]

I've been soldering connectors onto some new LiPos that I bought at Wings & Wheels last weekend. I use XT60 on 2200's and bigger and 2mm bullet connectors on 1300's or smaller. I can just solder 2mm's with a 30W Antex iron or I get out the 'electric cricket bat', a big old Solon iron which I think is about 100W. Years ago I used it to make tinplate tanks for C/L models. As for solder I still have a couple of reels of lead based multicore, filched from where I once worked. Maplin now only sell the new solder so I'd have to replace both irons. For the time being I'll carry on as I am, haven't died of lead poisoning yet!

Edited By buster prop on 27/06/2012 21:00:31

[Doug Ireland]

As with JC, I use a gas powered iron for these heavier duty jobs. And the facility to heat-shrink without a flame is a plus!

[Startazz No1]

I got a couple of different size irons and to be honest my 100w ebay job does the best job for my bigger lipos like the 4s ones,never thought of using the gas ones yet though so i might have to look into them.

[Erfolg]

KC

I can see the sense of pre wired plugs from the consumers point. However I do not see it as a safety issue, one of convenience.

I am always amazed at the sheer apparent variety of plug types that seem to exist, even within the EU. From my point of view it is good that when i go on holiday that all the electrical appliances are not confiscated when I enter another country when my plugs are not compliant with that countries sockets without the use of an adaptor.

I am guessing that it matters little which I purchase, in that the 100w Lidl item will be adequate and convenient to attach my Deans to Lipo leads. At present I am managing with a 15 amp, with a heavy tip, which I leave to be up to operating temperature and then soaking the lead and then quickly attach plug to lead. Certainly not ideal.

I get the impression that the problem with the gun type, that they are not well suited to electronic components in that they get to hot. I was told, I do not know if true, that the current draw is high when operated due to a very high resistance on the tip, and that it is essentially a single wiring loop on one side of a transformer. Yet i am not sure that should worry me, if I understood the implications.

I will probably give the HK iron a miss, even though soldering irons are very low tech, resistance devices, with little to get excited about.

For a tenner, what the heck.

[Jeff-C]

I agree with JC in regards to gas, I have a Butane soldering iron from Maplins. It was a fair old bit more expensive (£30), but that included gas and quite a few different tips as well as a carry case. The whole thing is small enough to fit in my bag, and it is AMAZING!!
Instant heat - fully controllable temperature - interchangeable tips - portable - can be used as a heat gun.

I would not be without mine ever again. And trust me, cheap soldering irons are a false economy. Why buy 2 or 3 cheap soldering irons, when you can spend that little more at the start and have a quality item that will last years.

One last thing, I have puffed quite a few LiPo batteries because my soldering iron was not hot enough (hence buying the gas one). Make sure you have a hot hot hot iron as using a cooler iron you have to leave the hot tip on the connectors / leads for a long time. The heat will go straight down the wire into the LiPo, and if you are really unlucky you get a BOOM & FIRE!! (seen it happen).

 

Edited By Jeff-C on 27/06/2012 22:11:54

[Erfolg]

To date I have soldered at least 15 lipos, probably more, with my 15 amp antex.

In the dim distant past, whilst at Meto Vicks (later AEI and then crappy GEC) I used some antiquated soldering iron, of no brand, on a number of exercises, jointing some mid sized cables. As long as they get hot enough, hold the heat (mass,) has a copper tip, I am not sure that it matters that much, who makes it. No temperature control, just skill, in heat management.

I do appreciate that a Butane type could well supply the energy for very heavy sections and be better in those instances.

I do agree that soaking a cable is not ideal and to be avoided, ideally.

Again in the dim past i have used solderpots and ladels for jointing heavy cable both at Metros and BICC, learning how difficult it can be to join heavy conductors (multiple structures) and Bus Bars. Here bags of heat is put into the cables. The issue is does it damage the insulation, not if done properly. Later much was done with mechanical joints rather than soldered jointing.

I am reasonably sure I can do the job, at my cable sizes with a 100w std, tip iron (larger would be better). Although I probably agree butane would do the job easier.

I do remember the time when my father would stick an iron in the coal fire. Heat it until a green flame was apparent, then briefly dip in the flux, before soldering. Electric irons are for wimps, must convert our fire to coal and get soldering.

No, I do agree, that in principle, just enough heat, is best.

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

I use a thermo controlled, variable temperature, Antex iron with a relatively small bit - never had any problems. All my connections are 4mm bullets. I use leaded solder, a liquid acid flux and I always tin the connectors and the wire which I believe helps. So you don't need a high power iron - its a case of what works for you.

On the subject of solder guns they require a "knack" to use them. The power isn't regulated - except by the user. The tip doesn't hold heat, its not a "bit" in the conventional sense. You have to judge the tip temp for yourself - pulsing the trigger on and off to get the heat you want. So its a very different technique than using a conventional soldering iron and it takes a bit of getting used to. If you simply hold the trigger in all the time the tip gets too hot - and that's when you start damaging things. In the right hands they are OK for delicate electronics work etc. - but you have to have the "knack".

BEB

PS I also remember my Dad putting the big copper-bitted solding iron in the gas ring on the cooker and waiting for the green flame! 

Edited By Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 27/06/2012 23:27:53

[Erfolg]

I have been out and purchased Lidl Solder Gun. Rather surprisingly, to me, they only had 2. I had thought i will leave it until Monday, when I do my weekly shop, which includes Lidl. There may have none left by then, if only 2 at 10:00hrs on the day of release.

I have used on a repair to a Deans style plug, where the conductor had sheared at the junction of the soldered cable, to cable interface/region. At least it was not a dry joint failure. That is what I had thought at the time. Later I thought, it could be that there had been grain growth in that region of the cable, due to soaking with a small iron. Then again........

With respect to the solder gun, I have never used one previously and have only now read BEB's comments. So in my case no pulsing. For cable jointing of the type I do, it seems up to the job. The tip is up to a soldering temperature in seconds. It also seems capable of supplying the energy to heat both cable and plug simultaneously. Then again it is early days, it was only a 20 amp ESC I was doing.

I think all of us were taught to pre tin the components of a joint before soldering, yet not in all cases on reflection. Some joints were actually undertaken without tinning, well cleaned and fluxed. I then though there must be many hundreds on this web site of my generation, who will have undertaken broadly similar training. Essentially training back then had a very wide base, which seems to contrast with todays training. Prior to retiring , my CV bulged with whole variety of recently taken courses, exams passed, the final being IOSH, plus a plethora of courses in Management of Commissioning, Electrical Installations, Contractors and so on. In my youth much would have been wrapped up into basic training. What has happened in the meantime?

As for the solder gun, it works well enough for jointing lipos, that is to date and that is all I want it for.

[Terry Walters]

HI Erfolg,

I was in my local Lidl's today and there was this soldering gun for €11.99 (About £9.60 in poper money) trying to get my attention whilst SWMBO was provisioning - so I bought it!

For the solder gunless folk - It comes with a reel of solder and a tub of paste plus 2 tips in a hard box. Not bad for the price - let you know how I get on!

Too hot to solder today - 34C in shade - upstairs in my attic workshop that translate as topside of 40C!!!! Too hot to fly too so just let SWMBO beat me at Scrabble to get some brownie points.

Terry

[Phil May]

I use a small gas blow lamp (similar to a plumbers, but smaller)

I hold the connector just on the tip of a low flame, feed the solder in until it melts and fills the connector, take the connector out of the flame and place the bared wire in and hold until it cools.

I'll probably get shot for doing it this way........ ....... but it has never caused me any issues over the last 3 years.

Phil

[Erfolg]

Ahh, Terry, somewhere nice and warm. I am awaiting the predicted thunderstorms for this part of the UK.

With respect to heat and the Solder Gun, No appreciable heat experienced by the user. BEB, has indicated what happens, press trigger and it heats up, let trigger go and it cools rapidly, as BEB has said there is no appreciable mass in the soldering tip. I will not go as far to say I am a fan, though I do think they seem fine for jointing.

Now Big Phil, it matters not how a job is done as long as the finished job is fine and not put your health at risk and so on. To me it seems fine. As they say, there is more than one way to skin a cat. Not that i know and the cat does not look happy.

[Erfolg]

I now have been using the soldering gun for a little while and on a number of jobs.

By and large I have been very pleased with it. There has however been a number of issues.

The first there is no mass in the soldering tip. The heat coming from the tip itself, which it pumps out. This means that you need to make a solder bridge between the tip and item, wait a second or so and then feed in the cored solder.

The second is again related to the heat out put, as BEB mentioned, if the trigger is held, the tip can become so hot that the solder oxidises, feeding in new cored solder, sees it oxidise immediately. As BEB suggested it requires trigger pumping to keep the temp down.

I cannot see the iron being any use for electronics, as the temp control is not great. Yet heat output is prodigious

So all in all great for soldering heavy conductors, pushrods or cable jointing. All in all a good buy. Deans plugs are a doddle with a soldering gun.

[Boots]

I know im a bit late with this, but I worked in an electronics workshop for 20 years or so, so i know what works for me. a Weller 40w tcp iron, select tips for size and temperature. I shudder to think what the price of my iron is now !!!! I just looked weller magnastat tcp 50w without transformer 80 to 100 quid eeek

I prefer old fashioned lead solder.

gun type irons which are basically a hand held transformer I strongly recommend against, they can induce eddy currents in the wire which will travel along the wire and distroy semiconductors

you dont need an iron which is the heat of the sun for big jobs, a good temperature controlled iron will do. cheap irons get far too hot but when you go to use them cool down very quickly.

I have a cheap iron which looks similar to the hobby king one, there is poor thermal transfer between the element and tip.

I have found Antex irons to work well and good value for money

dont skimp on the iron as a poor joint could cost you a plane and all the bits inside it !!!!!

[Allan Bennett]

My favourite for all duties, including 12g leads onto Deans Ultra plugs, is a 50W adjustable-temperature Antex with a selection of tip sizes. Price a couple of years ago was in the £mid-teens, if I remember correctly. I use lead-free solder and, with appropriate iron heat, I find it no more tricky to use than the old stuff.

In my experience, for large jobs it's the tip mass, not the wattage, that is critical. Small mass, even if it's on a 250W gun, will cool down the moment it touches a heavy wire.

[Mark Powell 2]

Never had a soldering gun, never seen the need for one. And the heating element is in the bit. With the rate at which the modern lead free solder erodes the bits, and given the small size of the bit, I don't thnk they will last long

Bit erosion with lead free solder is a real problem. Not even the high quality iron coated bits on the Weller and Antex irons resist it. And in my local very large B&Q warehouse where I bought my Weller they have not got any of the correct bits at the moment. So buy the cheapest you can, with spare bits if possible, and consider it a throw away item when all the bits have eroded away after you have only had it a year.

Funny thing about 'Eff and Safety is that is is only law when the person doing the job is your employee.  Doing someshing yourself it is only 'advisory'. But we treat it like law.

Edited By Mark Powell 2 on 17/08/2012 08:41:10

[malcolm woodcock 1]

Soldering iron is preferable to soldering gun but if you extend the element in the gun it can be quite handy for cutting foam.