Pete B Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 Best start a new thread in the Sailplane section with a 'Which DLG?' heading or similar, Bruce - this one's firmly for the P2000..... Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mightypeesh Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 Hi Chris. I have just built one of these - well technically two as the one I had a month ago that I managed to fly through a tree at high speed on its third flight!!!! (I'm sure it was not there when I launched!) I can however vouch for the strength of the fuse which is still pristine, the wings and tailplane did get left behind in a sort of shredded way though. mmmmmmm. Both needed one of the servo's swopping around in the wing to get the settings for aileron/flap/crow etc to work correctly on my DX7. It is only a matter of a few minutes however to scapel out the foam and re-position it, so it really is not a big deal. On another note the first one I wrote off came in at 1450 odd grams with a1800 3 cell in it. For the second one I ditched all the wood work and push rods out of it and mounted the servos in the back under the tail, and put the battery tape and strap directly onto the base of the fuse. This also negated the use of ballast in the tail to get it to balance and 'Mk 2' comes in at 1190 grams flying weight. I must say I love this glider and with the lower weight she is transformed on the stock motor/esc, and is great to fly. Not what you would call a hotliner of course, but for our casual 'keepy uppy' competitions she does the job. Cheers, Simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrispy Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Hi Simon, I was interested to hear about your experiences with this model. I'm in the middle of programming mine right now and everything seems to be moving in the right direction. I left the servo wells as there were and simply reversed the rotational movement of the left flap servo using my JR DXS9 Tx plus a few minor programme changes to accommodate this reversal. I now have flaps, crow braking, full span ailerons, reflex and camber, etc. Can you let me know what you have found to be the best C of G? I've read in various forums people are using from 70 to 85 mm from the leading edge. Also perhaps you can tell me the type of glue you're using to fix items in the fuse. Many thanks, Chris. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Austin Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Hi there Chrispy I am flying my P2K with C of G at 85 mm from the leading edge. I can use either a Zippy 1800 or 2200 3S in the exact same location. At this C of G it is quite twitchy, but floats really well and you can easily observe lift when a thermal drifts through. In breezes over 8 or 9 mph it needs to be slightly more forward to maintain some direction, I have found. Go With the Flow Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerOC Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Posted by Bruce Austin on 25/03/2015 20:24:04: I am flying my P2K with C of G at 85 mm from the leading edge. I can use either a Zippy 1800 or 2200 3S in the exact same location. Bruce if you're looking to thermal I strongly recommend going down to a 1300 lipo. You'll be amazed at the difference in performance of this model. We fly off the slope and can be up for 2 hours with launch and 3 or 4 motor runs the battery still comes back with 50%+ charge left. Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mart49 Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 I use a 1300 or 1500 lipo from a flat field and on a good day can get an hour + with 4 / 5 motor runs. Never tried a 2200, always thought it would be too much Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Austin Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Hi Mart49, Thank you for that info. The only reason that I am using these heavier lipos is that they is all I have at present. Now that I am "refining" my techniques and seeing some positive improvement, I will certainly take up your advice on lighter batteries. I am using an HK altimeter for recording heights and durations. It is often said that "if you can't measure it, then you can't manage it". This is just so true. (It's a bit like my budget too) Go With the Flow Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mart49 Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Bruce, I love the little HK altimeter; I only use it in the P2K. Best hight so far is just over 1500' on a lovely summers day last year. Caught a thermal and up she went. Needed full flaps and a hard dive to get her down to a reasonable level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mightypeesh Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Hi Chris. The type of plastic that the fuse is made from is a nightmare to stick to. I found that if I used a smear of UHU Por on the surface first it helped stuff like velcro battery tape to stick to it like billio. you can also rough it up a bit before using stuff like epoxy. My mate has one too and he uses small cable ties by drilling a couple of small holes and poking it out and in to hold down bits and pieces. Whatever works for you really. Cheers, Simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Plains Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Posted by chrispy on 25/03/2015 19:39:36: Also perhaps you can tell me the type of glue you're using to fix items in the fuse. Many thanks, Chris. Try high temp hot glue. Clean the area with meths better still switch cleaner rough the surface, preferably with something that leaves no chemical residue, ie, sand paper rather than wet and dry or emery. Even a clean wire brush. (I got a set of mini wire brushes from Poundland) My experience with this type of plastic is with my Easy Pigeon. It's polyethylene as far as I know, as in, washing up bowl, vintage windsurfer or Barbie's leg. Actually, for I've used self adhesive Genuine Velcro and it sticks like that brown stuff to a blanket, no probs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff S Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Posted by Pete B - Moderator on 19/03/2015 18:11:44: There isn't a fault with the wing. It's just that, like so many manufacturers, they do not account for the fact that flap servos are ideally mounted in the same orientation, as opposed to the mirror-image mounting for ailerons. Options are to cut the foam accordingly, as I have done; use two channels for flaps; or use a Y lead and a servo reverse on one servo. This isn't a 'cheap foamy' issue - the Multiplex Funcub and others are made the same way. Pete From looking at the photo it seems that, unlike Multiplex, HK have mounted the flap servos exactly right. Luckily I had enough receiver channels to be able to use one for each flap on my FunCub but it seems that a Y lead and one channel will suffice on the Phoenix 2k. I may even get one as a companion to my Blizzard Is it better to pay the extra and get a Plug and Fly version or get the ARF and fit it out yourself? Geoff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff S Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Posted by chrispy on 25/03/2015 19:39:36: Also perhaps you can tell me the type of glue you're using to fix items in the fuse. Many thanks, Chris. I used a glue called Stabilit Express some years ago to glue to a Robbe Plura model yacht hull. It was quite expensive IIRC but it was the only thing that worked. I haven't actually seen a Phoenix fuselage but I suspect it's a similar plastic. Geoff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete B Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Posted by Geoff Sleath on 26/03/2015 22:25:35: From looking at the photo it seems that, unlike Multiplex, HK have mounted the flap servos exactly right. Luckily I had enough receiver channels to be able to use one for each flap on my FunCub but it seems that a Y lead and one channel will suffice on the Phoenix 2k. I may even get one as a companion to my Blizzard Is it better to pay the extra and get a Plug and Fly version or get the ARF and fit it out yourself? Geoff I think you may well be right, Geoff - although in my defence I was 600 miles north of my P2000 and viewing the pic on a Hudl at the time... I've just had a look at mine and I don't see any foam butchery, so HK have got this one right I've got the PNF version and I'd say the motor is adequate for a gentle climb. Terry Walters fitted out an ARF and his has a much better rate-of-climb (can't recall which motor). Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McG 6969 Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 Hello to all, I’m not a glider addict (yet), but I’m distributing some FPV gear (FPVRaptor, Raptor V2 & Ranger EX) from Volantex in Belgium and as you very probably know, the Phoenix 2K is manufactured by Volantex (formerly Lanyu Hobby). Maybe the following info could be of help not only for repairs (would never wish that to anyone) but also to fix whatever to the inside of the fuselage of the Volantex blow molded fuselages. Concerning the Raptor/Ranger & Phoenix fuselages, they are made of PP (a polypropylene 'mixed' by the boss of Volantex himself) and NOT of PE (polyethylene). It seems that the best solution - imho - for repairs or gluing 'something' to it, is the use of Loctite® Plastics Bonding System (Henkel Group brand / item #681925). It's a two-part cyanoacrylate adhesive (solvent marker & CA tube, but no mixing required) that sets in some seconds, dries clear and cures without clamping. In fact, the solvent marker comes first & dissolves the plastic surface; then comes the CA which is then able to penetrate and 'weld' the items together. A lot of glues will somehow 'stick' to the polypropylene but will never be properly 'glued' without dissolving first. It bonds plastics such as Plexiglas®, polycarbonate, polystyrene, PVC, polyethylene, polypropylene and even polytetrafluoroethylene (PTFE) also known as Teflon®. It glues those plastics to leather, cork, paper, cardboard, wood, chipboard, fabric, metal, ceramic, rubber, O-rings, ... It is OK for polystyrene, but I wasn’t sure at all that it was suitable for 'expanded polystyrene' or derivates, as the 'primer' (with Heptane solvent) would probably melt the foam (or EPO). I've been looking around for an easy way to find the Loctite Plastic Bonding, but it appears that the retail 'blister' packaging is quite hard to find. So, I contacted Loctite Belgium and did some investigation together with the very helpful local technical service guy: >>> the 'retail packaging' has been discontinued in Europe due to lack of public interest... OMG! ... BUT the products are still around for professionals. The polyolefin primer is the Loctite SF 770 (better know as the 770) in a 10gr bottle, while the CA is the Loctite 406 in a 20gr plastic bottle. Of course the professional packaging is somewhat bigger, so we can mod/crash a lot more! The other good news is that the Loctite technician confirmed me that the 406 is foam-safe even on 'very common' Styropor... So, now everybody can make some PET/EPO/PP 'sandwich structure' protections or repairs to our crashing babies... and no, I'm not affiliated in any way to the Loctite nor Henkel Group... Hope this helped some of you a little. Happy glueing Chris Brussels, Belgium Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vic evans 1 Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 Posted by vic evans 1 on 20/03/2015 11:49:48: Hi There. New member here. I have bought the HK Firstar/Raptor V2 2000 which I understand shares wings & tail feathers with the Phoenix. In other forums folk talk about the Raptor tip stalling easily yet I don't see any mention of that here. I bought the plane as an intro to FPV & intend to fly it with a simple camera to start with. Any comments on the tip stalling thing? Sorry to be a bore but does anyone have anything to say about this? It does seem to be a recurring theme on another forum but not mentioned here. Maybe someone could give me the Leading edge -LE dims & normal AU flying weight of the phoenix so I can compare it with my Raptor before I maiden it. Any help would be appreciated . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bert baker Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 I have purchased a Phoenix 2000, I am using a JR dsx9 radio according to the book I can set throttle up as air brake in one flight mode and back as a throttle in another. If only I could understand the book, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Hargreaves - Moderator Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 I may even get one as a companion to my Blizzard Is it better to pay the extra and get a Plug and Fly version or get the ARF and fit it out yourself? Geoff Speaking as someone who DID fit it out himself I'd say get the plug & fly version Geoff....at the end of the day it it what it is, a cheap foamy glider that flys very well indeed (for a cheap foamy glider). Fitting it out yourself in the hope of unlocking some hidden performance just isn't going to happen..... Buy the plug 'n' fly version fit a 1300mAh Lipo & go fly it.....it's great fun. Ooo & definitely utilise the flaps as these do increase the fun factor as they're something else to play with..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McG 6969 Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 @ vic evans NO, the main wing and tailplane of the Raptor V2 & the Phoenix 2K from Volantex are NOT the same but they are the same than the 'older' Raptor. The main wingtips & the washout are quite different. They look very similar but you can only notice the differences when you hold them next to each other. The polypropylene fuselage is the same for all the Raptors though but then again the V2 (the one w/ the grey look) has an 'upgrated' motor mount with a lot more upthrust. So, you can upgrade an 'older' Raptor w/ the V2 mount just by screwing it on. Personally I didn't hear about tip stalling tendencies w/ the V2. If you want to load your craft heavily w/ a lot of FPV gear, a good trick is to reinforce the wings by laminating them w/ a thin laminating vinyl film from your local signman. And don't trust the foam hinges neither (specially rudder & elevator), at least reinforce them w/ Blenderm/fibertape or better install some CA hinges. Happy FPV Chris Brussels, Belgium Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Plains Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 Posted by McG 6969 on 27/03/2015 08:59:18: Hello to all, Concerning the Raptor/Ranger & Phoenix fuselages, they are made of PP (a polypropylene 'mixed' by the boss of Volantex himself) and NOT of PE (polyethylene). It seems that the best solution - imho - for repairs or gluing 'something' to it, is the use of Loctite® Plastics Bonding System (Henkel Group brand / item #681925). It's a two-part cyanoacrylate adhesive (solvent marker & CA tube, but no mixing required) that sets in some seconds, dries clear and cures without clamping. In fact, the solvent marker comes first & dissolves the plastic surface; then comes the CA which is then able to penetrate and 'weld' the items together. A lot of glues will somehow 'stick' to the polypropylene but will never be properly 'glued' without dissolving first. It bonds plastics such as Plexiglas®, polycarbonate, polystyrene, PVC, polyethylene, polypropylene and even polytetrafluoroethylene (PTFE) also known as Teflon®. It glues those plastics to leather, cork, paper, cardboard, wood, chipboard, fabric, metal, ceramic, rubber, O-rings, ... It is OK for polystyrene, but I wasn’t sure at all that it was suitable for 'expanded polystyrene' or derivates, as the 'primer' (with Heptane solvent) would probably melt the foam (or EPO). I've been looking around for an easy way to find the Loctite Plastic Bonding, but it appears that the retail 'blister' packaging is quite hard to find. So, I contacted Loctite Belgium and did some investigation together with the very helpful local technical service guy: >>> the 'retail packaging' has been discontinued in Europe due to lack of public interest... OMG! ... BUT the products are still around for professionals. The polyolefin primer is the Loctite SF 770 (better know as the 770) in a 10gr bottle, while the CA is the Loctite 406 in a 20gr plastic bottle. Of course the professional packaging is somewhat bigger, so we can mod/crash a lot more! The other good news is that the Loctite technician confirmed me that the 406 is foam-safe even on 'very common' Styropor... So, now everybody can make some PET/EPO/PP 'sandwich structure' protections or repairs to our crashing babies... and no, I'm not affiliated in any way to the Loctite nor Henkel Group... Hope this helped some of you a little. Happy glueing Chris Brussels, Belgium Brilliant info there McG !!! Thanks muchly. Have a Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vic evans 1 Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 Thanks for the info.McG 6969. To start with I plan on using a very light video camera. I need 350 gm of lipos as far forward as possible to get the cg on the wooden joiner & the AU weight is about 1,600 gm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff S Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 Posted by Steve Hargreaves - Moderator on 28/03/2015 13:51:08: I may even get one as a companion to my Blizzard Is it better to pay the extra and get a Plug and Fly version or get the ARF and fit it out yourself? Geoff Speaking as someone who DID fit it out himself I'd say get the plug & fly version Geoff....at the end of the day it it what it is, a cheap foamy glider that flys very well indeed (for a cheap foamy glider). Fitting it out yourself in the hope of unlocking some hidden performance just isn't going to happen..... Buy the plug 'n' fly version fit a 1300mAh Lipo & go fly it.....it's great fun. Ooo & definitely utilise the flaps as these do increase the fun factor as they're something else to play with..... Thanks fpr the advice, Steve. That sounds sensible. I have both foamie Acrowot and Riot and the supplied motor/esc/servos seem to have adequate performance. In fact the Riot must have had over 200 flights and at least 500 landings (I like touch and goes) without any serious issues. Presumably all I need for the flaps is a couple of 9 gm servos extra. Geoff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Elsworth Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 Can anyone advise me if this is normal or am I doing something basically stupid? Hi, I have just found this great thread having just bought a Phoenix! I had quite a few issues during the build but mainly small ones. I had to modify the fuselage as the rudder servo was jamming, there was no advice as to how to install the receiver, and the ESC was just floating on the deck. Still good value for money though, I thought. However, I have the recommended 1800 LiPo and to get the suggested CoG means the battery being halfway under the wing, so only half of it is on the supplied battery tray. Can anyone advise me if this is normal or am I doing something basically stupid? Cheers Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 No had the same issues Dave, I stuck the esc as far back as possible to the side of fuzz high up so it didn't interfere with the lipo, unscrew the lipo tray and modify it, that's what I did. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Austin Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 Hi Dave and John I recommend the simple, but clever, battery under the wing solution, using the velcro and plastic ruler method. It's tucked into this thread much earlier. It works for me. Go With the Flow Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 Cheers Bruce John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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