Change in law on RC camera use?

[Phil 9]

BBC news featured an item this morning highlighting the use of airborne rc cameras and questions the law governing the use of such models.

Campaigners are highlighting the danger to the public and breach of privacy

 

Do we need extra laws for such models

Edited By Phil B on 06/12/2012 07:48:33

[Greybeard]

No, we need fewer laws on this and most other matters, as a nation we are becoming paranoid.

[Peter Miller]

If they can't enforce the law about using a mobile phone while driving they haven't got a snowball's chance of enforcing this one.

Every week in Amateur Photographer there are reports of people being harrased for taking pictures, even in public places where there is NO law top prevent it.

Point a camera anywhere near a child and you are likely to be lynched.

This week a photgrapher was stooped from taking pictures at publich Christmas lights event but the council. A year or so ago someone in Ipswich was told to delete his pictures of a similar event by the Police. He go an apology and a free CD of the event from the council by way of compensation.

By the way. If youa re ever told to delete your pictures just remember that they can be recovered from the card. It is only if you format the card that they are lost.

[Dai Fledermaus]

You might change your mind if a drone from a national newspaper or local authority came snooping over your property or even looking in throught your windows.

If the local burglar bought one from Amazon ( about £ 250 I understand ) to case your garden shed or garrage for anything worth stealing would you say that was O.K.?

[Peter Miller]

They can still do that what ever the law says.

You say that, well how about this then.

We had one of those men come round selling aerial pictures of local houses. He went to a friend's house and the friend said "No thanks"

The picture seller then said that any unsold pictures were given to the local council. A veiled threat if ever there was one. He departed rather rapidly at that point.

And anohter tip. If you do get one of those people selli ng pictures of your house. They ask about £45 l.

That picture is worthless to anyone else so you can screw them down a lot.

And going on from that. I had some pictures of my house taken from one of my models may years ago. That dropped the price e3ven though his pictures was a lot better.

[Phil 9]

Posted by Colin Ashman on 06/12/2012 08:55:50:

You might change your mind if a drone from a national newspaper or local authority came snooping over your property or even looking in throught your windows.

If the local burglar bought one from Amazon ( about £ 250 I understand ) to case your garden shed or garrage for anything worth stealing would you say that was O.K.?

I think Burglary is already illegal and so is endangering a person with an RC model. But burglary is common and you only need to go on you tube to see many examples of irresponsible use of RC airborne cameras

[Greybeard]

I should have wrote that "we have become Paranoid", mind I think I would find the noise annoying.

[Toni Reynaud]

I agree with Greybeard and Peter Miller. Reasonable people will use the technology reasonably, and others unreasonably and intrusively. Some people won't be bothered, others will get on their high horse and try to stop the use of them. It all depends on situation and personality, and is not enforceable.

On the same lines, did anyone see the War on the Roads programme? Lots of clips from cyclist's helmet cams, and lots of confrontational people.

[GrahamC]

I have to say that all fairly responsible modelers probably ought to be a little concerned about this. Its fair enough that it is availabe through a model shop where you might hope that the CAA implications be at least alluded to, but over the counter on the high street? Hmm doesn't bode well me thinks!

[Phil 9]

Posted by Toni Reynaud on 06/12/2012 09:38:32:

On the same lines, did anyone see the War on the Roads programme? Lots of clips from cyclist's helmet cams, and lots of confrontational people.

Very interesting program.

I am not sure if it is the model or the camera that raises the most objections?

But this type of model is bringing rc models into more public places and my worry is objectors may bring about restrictions that will have an impact on other types of rc flying

Prof Noel Sharkey interviewed on the BBC has sugestes licensing. This can only serve to make our hobby more expensive

 

Edited By Phil B on 06/12/2012 10:07:23

[Wingman]

AARRGHH NO - not licencing! Imagine having to put your licencing number on all your models (similar to boat licencing) in the government approved font and size in the government approved position not to mention the government approved payment to be made (expletives deleted to protect the mods)

[Ian Jones]

Typical BBC these days.

Press intrusion = okay,

Joe Soap minding his own bussiness = not okay.

Everyone will have to have their eyes removed soon, just because they could be used to invade someones privacy or in the use of crime.

Flippin' 'eck, what's goin' on just lately, lots of my posts seem to be as if I've been chewing a wasp .

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

Ian's in "grumpy old man" mode

I do worry about the larger issue. I have no doubt what so ever that the number of RC models sold either over the counter at non LMS style venues and via the internet from general retiallers is set to absolutely rocket

Now in some ways this is good and could be a real opportunity for us. Increased interest and awareness - handled correctly a significant proportion of these "casual" buyers may be converted to committed model flyers like us. Also volume equals cheap in the technology market - more sales drives down prices for us to

But in some ways its potentailly very bad. If this expanding use leads to accidents and/or incidents such as privacy invasion, make no mistake the government will act - and in my experence government's are very fond of taking a sledge hammer to crack a nut! We could very easily find ourselves at the centre of some very unwelcome legislation.

What to do? Well its very difficult - but one thing we can do is make sure that whenever possible we welcome these new flyers into our community and we don't look down our collective noses at their models as merely "toys". Instead we try to absorb and integrate them. That way we can intstill in them a responsible attitude to model flying. I know that's much easier to say than do - but I think we have to try. For example, how many clubs take a quick trip to the local toy stores and say - "If you sell one of them (ie an RC flying model) would you give the person one of these please" - and provide the shop with say an A5 handout pointing people at your club? Worth a try?

BEB

Edited By Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 06/12/2012 14:12:23

[Simon Chaddock]

BEB

I couldn't agree more.

The current CAA legislation goes out of its way not to restrict smaller (less than 7kg) planes but it is an exception rather than a right.

As I read it the CAA is the regulating authority in law for all flight in UK air space so it would only take a small revision to the wording in CAP658..........

[Erfolg]

From observation it does seem that the operation of small aerial vehicles by persons by a simple process of instructing a model/device to go from one location to another is already available. No doubt the cost of these devices will continue to fall.

There will many very sensible benefits from using this type of device, such as monitoring power lines, herds of animals. They all seem to carry a camera type device.

Where I have doubts is Joe soap operating these devices over built up areas. We know it will happen from those who want to take pictures of their house, then go on to snoop etc. It is inevitable some will malfunction or be incorrectly operated and damage property and potentially people. I can see the fire brigade operating such devices with general benefit at low risk. Rescue operations in the countryside again should be very low risk. The police however, would almost certainly use such devices in an active mode, where the risks become much higher.

As for burglars and similar, I am pretty sure they will continue to watch, brazenly walk around a property just looking. Knocking on the door etc. Such a device is probably low down on their preferred means of accessing their next crime.

My privacy is not something which I value to such an extent that the imposition of invariably Draconian laws is something I will willingly accepted. We have enough local government workers and other civil servants, so no more regulations and laws please, especially that typically they will want self financing schemes. Where protecting their jobs, forgetting whose interest they purport to work for.

When we had licences, did the PO or the government do anything to help us with respect to CB radios on 27, no, not a thing. From memory when pressed to act, the licence was just abandoned.

It seems to me that the existing regulations by the CAA should prohibit a lot of the scenarios proposed. But who will enforce them. If a strict interpretations of the regulations were to be imposed, I suspect that we modellers would be the loosers.

Can the sale of the devices be controlled? I personally cannot see a practical way, particularly that our voice is small, where as that of the retail industries is far more influential and numerous.

[Phil 9]

link

[ben goodfellow 1]

there is no law as long as you are i think above 400ft a above property my friend has a buisiness in this area

[Phil 9]

Posted by ben goodfellow 1 on 06/12/2012 17:44:46:

there is no law as long as you are i think above 400ft a above property my friend has a buisiness in this area

 

There is no current specific law but if you saw the BBC news this morning the story was about if new laws should be put in place

Edited By Phil B on 06/12/2012 18:03:11

[Codename-John]

Hardly a "Drone" is it, a little multicopter with a crappy camera on,

as far as im aware there are already laws for peeping toms, if people make a complaint about being watched or spied on with device such as this then i see no reason why it wouldnt come under the already in place laws, just because you happen to be using a model helicopter or whatever shouldnt mean it needs any further regulation,

where does it end, you can hide in a tree with a camcorder, should they be licenced too ?

[ben goodfellow 1]

i am very reliably informed its 50m when autonomous 30m when directly controlled and not any where classed as congested

[Erfolg]

It could be that the BBC is acting as a proxy for some official body who wishes to raise the profile of the issue to lend ammunition to there desired course of action, be it legislation, or the introduction of a licencing scheme.

Governments and their officials, do this sort of thing as part of stakeholder management.

[Greybeard]

Posted by Erfolg on 06/12/2012 19:47:18:

It could be that the BBC is acting as a proxy for some official body who wishes to raise the profile of the issue to lend ammunition to there desired course of action, be it legislation, or the introduction of a licencing scheme.

Governments and their officials, do this sort of thing as part of stakeholder management.

I must remember to check under my bed tonight before I get into it just in case they are there.

[WolstonFlyer]

But who will be watching the watchers while they are watching us!

The item does make some good points about drones and their use, you can imagine that the Americans will love this tech especially where lots of the population are armed with guns. The police might use drones/quadcopters to investigae buildings where hostages are being held etc and keep police people out of the way.

Also uses like surveying overhead power lines, under bridges, tall buildings etc. They are also used at some sporting events, I have seen them used at Cricket games to fly over the field.

I cannot really think that anybody is worried about people like us playing with model planes that happen to have a camera on them.... not yet anyway or probably for a long time.

[Tony Bennett]

i can see some job opertunities coming along though for rc fliers.

[Simon Chambers]

Posted by Phil B on 06/12/2012 17:38:21:

link

Noel Sharkey , Kevin Warwick .... No comment....

I ought to be careful what I say, I have a couple of friends who are involved in Robotics research projects.

Si.

Edited By Simon Chambers on 06/12/2012 22:15:11