Fuels Paradise

[will -0]

PS never use Caster in your engines, it'll gum it up with a sugary residue.

[David Ovenden]

Another vote for Prosynth fuel. I use 10% in all my engines from SC30 up to Saito 170 radial, and have done for 10 years. Keeps for ages and doesn't go off (found some 4 years old and it worked fine.) It doesn't gum up the engine and it just works - every time.

[Solly]

One or two folk have queried the make of oil used in Prosynth fuels. The information given on an American modelling site is that it's called Aerosave manufactured by Fuchs in Germany.

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Ernie]

And, Percy ,it smells great

ernie

[Solly]

Posted by Percy Verance on 18/03/2016 21:04:40:

will

You need to take a look at the old (still airworthy) aircraft in the collection at Old Warden. They've been happily running on castor oil for 90+ years.........

But yes, for model engines modern fuel with good quality synthetic oil is good. I still prefer a tad (2%) of castor personally, as it gives just a hint of protection against a lean run on a hot day.

I've never bought Prosynth fuel. If they won't tell me what's in it, then I won't buy it. Other fuel suppliers don't seem to have a problem letting you know what you're buying......

The old fuel debate rages on.......

Edited By Percy Verance on 18/03/2016 21:08:37

Well Percy, you know now.

[onetenor]

I'm going to add more fuel to the fire now. As a result of a series of tests run in the late 50s early 60 it was found that a much lower % of Castor oil can be used then you would expect. Some of the tests were run on 5% with very little wear taking place. Eventually 10% was regarded as being O.K. but 12% giving the safety margin needed for lean runs. For Glow fuel 1 or 2 % extra was safer. as Methanol is not as oily as paraffin/Kerosene. I'm not sure which mag ran and published the tests. Since then I have not used over 14% Castor with no ill effects and much cleaner engines and models. However a proviso must be added here. If using medicinal castor increase the ratio by 2% as it is much more refined and doesn't have the same level of protection

Been chatting to a guy on the Model Boat forum. He has found an old engine in a boat. He has started it on " some diesel from my car and a few dribbles of Methanol The flames from the exhaust were abou 4" long " His words bot mine. Once he got the home made water jacket and exhaust off and cleaned it up it was a Mills 1.3. Lovely job with polished finish even on C/Case Is it alright to do that? What about that fuel ? Has any one tried it.He won't tell us the proportions. I don't know why I'll have to keep asking him. Any comments?

[nigel newby]

All I know that castor oil made me run well. If we saw matron with the bottle you would run away as fast as you could. If you got given the dreaded castor oil, you would soon be rinning to the toilet.

Most fuels are made using a variation of things. Here is model technics duraglow fuels

	E.D.L. Oil	Castor Oil	Nitromethane	Methanol
Duraglo Str	9%	6%	0%	85%
Duraglo 2	9%	6%	2%	83%
Duraglo 5	9%	6%	5%	80%
Duraglo 10	9%	6%	10%	75%
Duraglo 16	9%	6%	16%	69%
Duraglo 25	9%	6%	25%

[Tim Flyer]

I thought it might be a good reminder posting the photo below for an “early spring” plane check while the flying weather is bad. This clunk tank fitting is about 3yrs old and all three pipes have rotted . It was used in a boat which I ran on 10-20% nitro . The higher nitro fuels definitely corrode parts faster ! The tank was drained after every session too . This sort of brass corrosion is quite normal and is a good reason to check tanks every year . It’s a real pain on planes with often difficult access, but definitely better than deadsticks! I’m pleased I can run my planes on 5% nitro as that’s much more gentle on paint plus the tank fittings. One thing to note is that the model was infrequently used and I believe storage does seem to accelerate corrosion even if the tank is empty. All Methanol fuel can still be quite corrosive. Another interesting thing I found was that oil from the fuel also rots polyester. It was rotting some of the luggage straps I use to hang planes from the ceiling 😳. I gues making sure all planes are oil free after flying and using more industrial wipe is the solution.

Edited By Tim Flyer on 07/02/2020 13:38:30

Edited By Tim Flyer on 07/02/2020 13:39:32

[Alan Reynolds 1]

Posted by nigel newby on 06/11/2018 17:43:55:

All I know that castor oil made me run well. If we saw matron with the bottle you would run away as fast as you could. If you got given the dreaded castor oil, you would soon be rinning to the toilet.

Most fuels are made using a variation of things. Here is model technics duraglow fuels

	E.D.L. Oil	Castor Oil	Nitromethane	Methanol
Duraglo Str	9%	6%	0%	85%
Duraglo 2	9%	6%	2%	83%
Duraglo 5	9%	6%	5%	80%
Duraglo 10	9%	6%	10%	75%
Duraglo 16	9%	6%	16%	69%
Duraglo 25	9%	6%	25%

I know this is an old thread but if castor so bad why do model technics use up to 9% of the stuff in most of their mixes then??????

rest my case......

[Frank Skilbeck]

That's only the Duraglow range, the Formula Irvine, recommended by Ripmax for Irvine and OS has 0% castor as does the Laser mix too.

I've been running my fourstrokes, Lasers, ASP, Thunder Tiger on a 10% synthetic oil with 5% Nitro, made by taking 10% Nitro regular synthetic oil fuel and mixing 50:50 with Methanol. Engines run well and planes are a little less oily.

[Peter Christy]

Posted by Alan Reynolds 1 on 13/03/2020 21:43:33:

I know this is an old thread but if castor so bad why do model technics use up to 9% of the stuff in most of their mixes then??????

rest my case......

Because there are a lot of traditionalists out there who still believe that castor has a place in modern fuels. There are also those who believe the earth is flat and that the moon landings never took place.

I rest my case!

--

Pete

[Jon H]

Posted by Alan Reynolds 1 on 13/03/2020 21:43:33:

Posted by nigel newby on 06/11/2018 17:43:55:

All I know that castor oil made me run well. If we saw matron with the bottle you would run away as fast as you could. If you got given the dreaded castor oil, you would soon be rinning to the toilet.

Most fuels are made using a variation of things. Here is model technics duraglow fuels

	E.D.L. Oil	Castor Oil	Nitromethane	Methanol
Duraglo Str	9%	6%	0%	85%
Duraglo 2	9%	6%	2%	83%
Duraglo 5	9%	6%	5%	80%
Duraglo 10	9%	6%	10%	75%
Duraglo 16	9%	6%	16%	69%
Duraglo 25	9%	6%	25%

I know this is an old thread but if castor so bad why do model technics use up to 9% of the stuff in most of their mixes then??????

rest my case......

If smoking is bad for you then why do they sell cigarettes? i rest my case.

Sorry but your post is a bit of a logic fail.

As Peter rightly points out some people have a very strange outlook and are so stuck in their ways that nothing will change their mind. In that case, you just take their money and sell them what they want even if its wrong.

That said, i have been begging MT to discontinue duraglo and try to convert these guys into something new.

Frank, the formula irvine fuels contain 2% castor as its part of the super techniplate klotz oil. Its miles better than duraglo but i am still not a fan. Laser 5 or techpower 5 are the ones to go for in my view.

[Doug Campbell]

I have run castor, synthetic, and castor/synthetic mix in model engines and racing two stroke motorcycles. The only cases I had of lubrication failure or damage was when I used solely synthetic oil. I think they both have there own advantages and disadvantages. This is why I settled on duraglo  and have used it for years without any problems, as have many others. What gives you the right to try and get it discontinued?

Edited By Doug Campbell on 16/03/2020 12:29:43

[gangster]

I have been using duraglo since it first came out. That started having received a long list of wiggings from Mr Super Tigre ( was it Mick Wilshere?). Older modellers will know what a I mean about one of his telling stories off.
sadly I lost the list in a job location change. The first one was. Do not ever ever ever send me a Super Tigre in a jap-crap box. He threw away the OS box and sent the motor back in an ST box

About 6 on the list was that I should not run it on synthetic or castor alone. But should buy a gallon of each from MT and mix them. He called it Tigre mix. I rang MT and was advised that they were just about to market the same stuff when the labels were printed. Hence the birth of Duraglo. Took a lot of convincing of the lms proprietor to convince him the stuff existed

[alex nicol]

it's Prosynth 10% nitro for me. Used to run model technics Irvine sport, changed to prosynth because of price ( about 30% cheaper)

I've used 4galls so far with no adverse effect. Engines were a couple of Irvine 53's, St34, ASP1.80fs all fine and no major changes to setting. 2strokes had enya no3 plugs and I cant remember what plug's in the ASP but it was as recommended by Just Engines

[Jon H]

Posted by Doug Campbell on 16/03/2020 12:28:49:

I have run castor, synthetic, and castor/synthetic mix in model engines and racing two stroke motorcycles. The only cases I had of lubrication failure or damage was when I used solely synthetic oil. I think they both have there own advantages and disadvantages. This is why I settled on duraglo and have used it for years without any problems, as have many others. What gives you the right to try and get it discontinued?

Edited By Doug Campbell on 16/03/2020 12:29:43

This is the sort of post that always crops up on these threads and while i have no doubt that you suffered those failures, the cause is hard to determine. Just to blame synthetic oil straight out of the gate is hardly very scientific and given that often these failures happened in the 1970's they are hardly applicable to engines today made with modern materials and with more modern oils.

Duraglo is very much an out of date fuel and it is not at all suited to modern engines, especially 4 strokes. If you took the castor out and left the 9% EDL it would be a much better fuel.

As for who i am, well my screen name tells you.

Alex, be careful with that stuff. I know it will start another argument, but we dont warranty engines run on weston fuel. Its a shame, but we arent impressed with it at all.

[Nigel R]

The only bearing failures I have experienced have been with castor, many moons ago.

Now, what does that prove?

Nothing, I think...

Anyway, I'm another one using that evil Weston stuff. Nothing has exploded or seized or rusted or peeled - so far.

[Brian Cooper]

Personally, I have been using Pro-Synth exclusively for the last 20+ years. . My engines run faster and run cooler on it, plus they still look brand new inside and out.....And I have a lot of engines, and buy the fuel by the case.

However, please don't buy it and try it yourself. . Because if (when) you discover how good it is, you might buy more of it, which will create a shortage, and the price will go up. Nooooooo....

Please continue to use fuel laced with castor oil. After all, deep down you know you like your engines to look like they have been dug out of a coal mine and then dipped in treacle.... and also love changing the bearings on a regular basis.

It's a great hobby, eh.

[Jon H]

Posted by Brian Cooper on 16/03/2020 15:42:30:

Personally, I have been using Pro-Synth exclusively for the last 20+ years. . My engines run faster and run cooler on it, plus they still look brand new inside and out.....

Its funny, in my testing they ran hotter and slower.

That said, it was all 4 stroke and i found that short stroke/revvy engines like our 70 and 120 didnt care so much, long stroke torque monsters like the 100 and 180 fell flat on their faces.

Ignoring performance though for a second, it was the washing up liquid levels of fuel foaming and the fact that more engines come back with a certain type of failure on that fuel than on any other that means we wont take the risk and warranty an engine run on it.

[Doug Campbell]

Using duraglo I have no coking or varnish build up. The internals are always clean and I get very long engine life. In my fourstrokes I use model technical special 4 stroke with even more castor and again no coking or varnish. I'll stick with what works for me thanks.

I am not averse to trying new lubrication ideas. My ED by West runs happily on turbo diesel synthetic as recommended by Weston, and my Laser 80 diesel is happy on sae 50 mineral oil

[alex nicol]

Hi Jon,

I don't know if it has a bearing on things, but none of the engines are really cowled in and the cylinder heads are well exposed so no cooling issues. Just typical plan built sports models with the motors side mounted. They are a mixture of well run and one of the irvines was nib. I guess I'll just need to suck it and see if there are any adverse long term.

That said, thank you for the info.

[Nigel R]

" certain type of failure"

Jon, feel free to keep it to yourself if it is in any way 'sensitive', but you've piqued my interest, what sort of failures have you seen?

[Jon H]

Posted by Doug Campbell on 16/03/2020 16:15:52:

Using duraglo I have no coking or varnish build up. The internals are always clean and I get very long engine life. In my fourstrokes I use model technical special 4 stroke with even more castor and again no coking or varnish.

This is from a laser 100 that was run on duraglo. Castor also clogged the exhaust and it needed to be replaced.

I have an Enya 120 with a blocked exhaust that was run on only 2% castor. It really is awful stuff.

Nigel, bearing cage failures. They happen on all engines no matter fuel but its the proportions that caught my attention as well as things i saw while working in the model shop years ago which demonstrated it was not brand specific.

To be clear, castor causes bearing failures as well, usually after long storage. Corrosion does the same irrespective of the oil used but as i said before, it was the numbers of identical failures on a given fuel in engines that otherwise looked to be in good condition.

Beyond the foaming and poor engine performance in at least 3 engines i tested i cant prove it with science, i cant test it as much as i would like to, but i also would not make such a fuss if i didnt think there was something there as there is nothing in it for me either way. I just dont want to see people damage their stuff.

Castor is the same. Doug, if you want to keep using castor then by all means do, but it really is time to bury it.

People tell me ML70 is a rubbish oil and their mate's engine seized in 10 seconds back in 1978 and its castor until death! Ok, great, im sure the engine did seize, but i cant say why. I am running all of my non Laser's on 15% ML70 and many state 20% castor or death in the instructions. As a side note, i dread to think how much mess my OS ff240 would make on 20% castor. Its a right state on 15% synth! Anyway my Laser's now run on 7% ML70 and i know they are safe at least down to 5% as i already tested it. I am quite sure that us recommending 7% fully synthetic will have some reaching for the defibrillator as they attempt to recover club mates recover from shock, but its really all they need. Given more time i will probably bring it down even lower. Our petrol runs on 1%, why cant the glow?

[Brian Cooper]

Posted by Jon - Laser Engines on 16/03/2020 16:09:29:

Posted by Brian Cooper on 16/03/2020 15:42:30:

Personally, I have been using Pro-Synth exclusively for the last 20+ years. . My engines run faster and run cooler on it, plus they still look brand new inside and out.....

Its funny, in my testing they ran hotter and slower.

That said, it was all 4 stroke and i found that short stroke/revvy engines like our 70 and 120 didnt care so much, long stroke torque monsters like the 100 and 180 fell flat on their faces.

Ignoring performance though for a second, it was the washing up liquid levels of fuel foaming and the fact that more engines come back with a certain type of failure on that fuel than on any other that means we wont take the risk and warranty an engine run on it.

It's a funny old world, eh. . All I can say is if the stuff didn't work, I wouldn't give it house room. But having "discovered" it over 20 years ago, I haven't looked back.

B.C.