RCM&E / Greenacres June 2014 fly-in - chat thread

[Tony Richardson]

Only you can answer that one Erfolg, thin ice and all

[ken anderson.]

I wasn't there but I think that the G/Acre's do has become too popular....from what I've read and pic's I've seen...maybe there was too many models wanting to be flown each of the two days.......and the weather which helped matters for a change...may have contributed to the fact...... well done to the organiser's for keeping everything in control,,,,,

ken Anderson....ne...1.... G/Ado dept.

[Richard Harris]

Posted by Slopetrashuk on 30/06/2014 23:58:36:

Posted by Richard Harris on 30/06/2014 23:46:39:

Calling Tim Angell, please check your PM Inbox please.

Ooo. Richard wants a Hobbit!

Nope, have a couple of Hobbits (though I haven't managed to get one in the air as yet).

Just wanted to make him aware that our annual autogyro Fly-In is this coming weekend.

[Martyn K]

Sorry Ken, I wouldn't agree.

With the exception of the few 'slots' for 3D and the Large Scale/Dawn Patrollers, I rarely had to wait more than a few minutes when I wanted to fly. I would guess that I had about 8 flights on Saturday and 6 on Sunday, which was enough. I don't think I hogged the flight line, I just waited until there wasn't much of a queue and took my turn. There never was a huge queue.

There is a lot of sky space over the flight line - far more than I am used to. I think you could probably get even more models in the air (I understand that there could be more stress etc) - the Wacky Races had about 12 models up at the same time and in much less used airspace because the models were smaller and flown close in. Not suggesting that many all the time, but the format worked and it was mainly unmarshalled. From my point of view as a participant in that chaos, the Wacky Races on Sunday was my my favourite flight of the weekend. It was great fun and that surely is the point of the weekend. It may have worked well because (with the exception of a couple of Barnstormers), all the models were fairly small and all the pilots knew there was dozen obstacles in their way. A bit like the traffic at Hyde Park Corner, the fact that it is congested means that there are less accidents per vehicle that pass through rather than more as you would expect.

Martyn

[Bob Cotsford]

No comments on having photographers stationed in the middle of the circuit for what felt like considerable periods of time?

[Erfolg]

Martyns comments really do resonate with my own general view. I have been pondering Kens comments while cutting the sides for my 190D.

I am new to fixed wing events, although have been flying models for many years (with a break), although much have been gliders, in club and competition. I personally did not have any issue with the flight line, or the numbers in the air at any one time (not different to a club day, at times), the field is much better than I have become accustomed with flying fixed wing.

I do however get the feel that us ordinary flyers are fighting to retain our position in the hierarchy of things. The slots as used by what I consider the special models, worked well, from the perspective of a every day Joe, (that's me).

I have been pondering the instructions/advice provide by the transmitter control briefing. Non of us should have been lingering in the take off strip, getting clearance to taxi on, for placing a model and retrieval. We should have been calling low pass when traversing the box, whilst in flight and low down. Aerobatics to be undertaken away from the box or at the very least called, and to be mindful of maintaining the safety of both the flight line and landing area. What more could they do to ensure safe, enjoyment of both the flyers and the spectators.

The ordinary modellers did not display any airs and graces, being both respectful and tolerant of each other.

It could be that I have accidently caused some of the offence, which was not intended, when i wrote of a 3d model suddenly appearing in front of me, prop hanging, then suddenly coming at me, so it seemed, then was gone. If I was aware of what was happening, I may not have found it distracting. From the models perspective, a PC it was good that it kept on going, inspite of my lack of temporary attention. The incident did not stop me from further flights. Again I will be totally honest, open and wait for vilification, I chose my times to fly, when no big fast models were in air and came in as soon as possible when such a model joined the throng. It was my decision, for good, bad or indifferent reasons, purely personal reasons.

I for one do not have any issues with the event as its is, do not want to see any significant change.

Above all I am thankful for all the efforts put in by all the organisers. These include RCM&E as an organisation, the moderators and most defiantly the Greenacres Club as a whole.

There were some guys I would never have met other than the event, Wiltshire Flyer for one, although left in mental turmoil, that I had got hold of the wrong end of the stick, that Wiltshire Flyers are a club as well as an individual.

Again i was interested in the unusual models such as the many small unorthodox type models such as linked Tandem wings, Depron Sipra. It goes without saying the bigger and faster models. Above all it is the ordinary modeller format that works for me.

If anything, the event promotes all aspects of aeromodelling, perhaps excepting helicopters, although a couple of mall ones were seen.

Again, I do not want substantial change, perhaps some minor tweaking.

Edited By Erfolg on 01/07/2014 10:24:54

[Slopetrashuk]

The photographer thing was a bit weird. It was better when he had a yellow vest on but I think he was only out there for the Sunday.
On the plus side - he was easy to miss. On the down side he is in nearly every fly by picture that anybody took!

Andy

Edited By Slopetrashuk on 01/07/2014 10:30:48

[Andy Muckley]

Hi John thanks for the heads up on the loo's , will tell Reg and John to get in touch with B.M.F.A. as we would do up the loo's at the top of the field but we're not allowed to and the council don't have the time or budget apparently (with the cuts and all) so it's catch 22 there, but the council lads who look after the site are trying to sort it out, they're not Jobs worth type's, they are trying to help us out

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

For the benefit of yourself and others Andy, our council will lend us marquee's, table + chairs generators etc. We have to provide the transport, but these things they already have so the cuts shouldn't affect it. Anything community based they are willing to help with.

John

[Danny Fenton]

Hi John, we used to rely heavily on the Council to loan us equipment for example the hundreds of stakes that mark the perimeter. One year without warning, the council had used them all elsewhere and we had to rush out at the last minute and buy several hundred pounds worth. The same can be said about mowing, myself and two others spent hours on the friday night mowing, because the council let us down. This is why the club doesn't rely on the Council any more and bought their own marquee, ride on mower etc etc.

Tony King was the photographer, and he has subsequently said the pictures, though interesting, perhaps make the models look too close to the pilots. But he did get some good shots because in the mornings the sun is in front and not good for decent pics. Where he stood the sun was behind him. Perhaps he should have had a spotter with him to watch his back however.....

Cheers

Danny

[Andy Muckley]

Cheer's John will see what they have to offer. Oh well got to get ready for work, will catch up with you later guy's

[Andy Muckley]

Hi Danny yes the steak's and fencing saga was a pain and as you say if you need a job doing right do it yourself(if you can) Right have really got to get ready for work

[Lee Smalley]

well i have to agree with Ken a tad it was too busy really, whilst some people did not have to wait long to fly, quite a few of us did, i had a 20-30 minute wait to fly this was after letting the marshals know i wanted to go up with the jet

all the while the queue got longer and longer mainly with small electric foam models by the time i did get the ok to boot up and join the queue there was still 6 models in the sky eventually the marshals understanding i only had 8 mins of fuel just let me go up, not having a go at marshals just how busy it was, 6 flights with the jet over the entire weekend was a bit poo, and yes i too had an issue with models flitting about and hovering over the strip during the flight, but funnily enough they were not 3D ing they were small electric foamies every time, so to point the finger at 3D lads whilst convenient may not be strictly true, still i decided a 20lb model flying at excess of 100mph should be able to cope with any foamie, so i called my manoeuvres and prayed they got out of the way....they did...mostly

[Martyn K]

Hi Lee

I think that because of the complexity of your model and the necessary prep time you need an allocated slot. I would have thought that you should be able to book a slot say "5 minutes from now" and that could be reserved for you.. i.e. as someone lands, the marshals know that you will be ready within a minute or two and you should just get your slot.

Something else to be considered for next year perhaps? Alternatively, nominate a helper who takes your place in the queue and you can then make a guess as to how long it will be before you get to the front.

Perhaps part of the problem is that people were queuing on both sides. While not wishing to impose limits, when it was really busy, instead of allowing 6 in the air from either queue, limit it to 3 from each queue standing left or right of the box accordingly..

That may resolve some of the queuing issues.

[Lee Smalley]

yeah maybe so, i am not keen on having a slot, as i am very happy flying with other people communication is the key me and David Ashby (you know the not so good looking one   were flying and it was never a problem loads of talking some mickey taking and all was good getting someone to stand in the queue for me is a possibility but i still think you would get people joining the queue with models in hand and jumping the queue because some bloke is just stood there! the marshals generally did a very good job considering but i would think that only 2 marshals on the flight line are required and one of those is nominated Head Marshal, and he clears and oks any take off and landings, sometimes there were so many marshals on the flight line it seemed like "too many cooks" sort of thing, and we really need to drive home the message that you ASK if it is ok to take off, when it is so busy you can not just rock up and shout out "going up" ASK Permission!!! so many times i had to abort a low pass or similar because some guy shouted "going up"

Edited By Pete B - Moderator on 01/07/2014 16:51:56

[Martyn K]

I wasn't thinking of a dedicated slot - I have seen you fly and you know how to keep out the way of the dawn fliers.

I just think that where there is a real prep time then you should be able to book a casual slot within 5 minutes.

Good point about a chief Marshal just doing ground handling though - probably will have a better view on the queues

[Chris Bott - Moderator]

I think expectations may need a bit of a reset if we're going to be that busy again.

Some simple maths.

10:00 to 17:00 is 7 hours of official, marshalled, fly in per day.
6 in the air having 10 minutes each is 36 flights per hour.
7 x 36 is 252 flights per day. (Less if we have the odd slot for a single or fewer than 6 models).

I seem to remember something well over 70 pilots booked in each day. Say 70 to be on the low side.

252 divided by 70 is 3.6 flights per day each, if we're going to be fair to all.

So 4 for the lucky ones, and 3 for others?

[Steve Hargreaves - Moderator]

We were of course blessed with fantastic weather.....next year it will probably be back to normal....rain wind & no-one will want to fly....

[Erfolg]

I had my 4 then, I was lucky.

Being 100% electric, there is a major advantage, once armed, i can just wait in line, no concerns with respect to the tank emptying, or the motor not picking up after idling for a long period. Could be part of the reason of the differing perspectives?

I really would be feeling guilty if I had flown my CS or my Ta, but not for long. As I now realise I actually managed 5 flights, oh really lucky then

Changing the thrust of the discussion slightly, three of my models were pretty much as fast, as slightly larger IC models. This is the first time I have really had the opportunity to undertake such organised oval track type flying. Flat out the PC was faster than many IC models, although only 3/4 the speed of I think John Stones PC. Which indicates that electric models are not always destined to be deprived of the ability to get a reasonable shake on.

[Lee Smalley]

Chris don't get me wrong matey considering the amount of pilots there i did well to get three flights in, no problems there and certainly not a criticism, you just have to weigh up if that is what you want or you want to stay at home patch and get 5 or 6 in in one day, just a choice to make that's all!!

[Martin McIntosh]

Andy E., no apologies necessary but gratefully accepted anyway.

A lot of very useful ideas seem to have been generated by this discussion.

I think that everyone, fliers and organisers were taken by surprise by the turnout this year, not only because of the weather but by the fact that this has become a `must go to` event not to be missed.

I also think that with the amount of people (sometimes) queuing to fly there should only be one starting box which needs to be larger anyway: ditto the fuelling area.

Maybe a Tesco style deli counter ticket to fly or a peg on a round board could decide the order of flying which would solve the problem of a lekky model jumping the queue or a multi motor or turbine flyer not knowing exactly when to start up?

I have flown previously at this event with larger models and I used a spotter. If everyone had one you would not be able to move on the flight line. Perhaps spread it out more and give the flight marshal a loud hailer.