Martyn K Posted November 17, 2014 Author Share Posted November 17, 2014 Hi all The Jocasta decision was a difficult one. The Cub, STOL and Clean sweep trio were all considered. There was no specific model specified for the Cub which had 5 1st choice votes so I couldn't recommend it. Remember, the idea is to have a model with plans and parts available and is suitable as a first build for someone who has never built before. It also needs to be fairly cheap to build. STOL came in next - also with 5 first choice votes (and would be my preferred model), but this is a 1980's model - I remember the Peter Russell writes up in Straight and Level (IIRC). He stated that because of the slots and flaps it wasn't really a beginners model and also there is no CNC part kit available and it is unlikely that MHS would produce one for 5 people. Of the others, the Jocasta had more1st choice votes (4) than Clean Sweep (2), although both meet the criteria of plans and parts availability. The Clean Sweep was second choice on 3 votes to the Atom which was selected. At the end of the day, you can build what you want - last year there were 5 models selected and I thought that was too many. Only the DF was well supported as a build and this was a traditional build, hence my suggestion of the Jocasta for the 3rd choice. If someone can identify a Piper Cub (which I think would also be a good choice), then please do so but please remember it really needs to be suitable as a first build for someone and reasonably economical as a construction project. Regards Martyn Edited By Martyn K on 17/11/2014 08:40:04 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reg shaw Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 Why does it now need to be a specific Cub, with a CNC pack available!!?? Why limit the choice even further? Surely 'Piper Cub' is enough, allowing some to be Cub shaped trainers, others to be whatever ........ A CNC kit is hardly traditional, nor particularly cheap, nor easy to build sometimes as the storybooks sometime lack detail!! I think I'll bow out of the debate now as things are getting a bit daft. You'll be saying they all have to be blue, with a 3" spinner, etc etc. Ian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martyn K Posted November 17, 2014 Author Share Posted November 17, 2014 Hi Ian I am definitely not trying to be prescriptive. If people want to build a cub then do so - that is exactly what I said in my last post. The idea of a Mass Build is to have a model design that is readily available and would appeal to the masses. All I am asking for is a bit of clarity. Martyn Edited By Martyn K on 17/11/2014 09:09:26 Edited By Martyn K on 17/11/2014 09:17:22 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Thomas Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 Hi all Hope you don't mind, but I'll put my 2 pence worth in. The Atom is obviously the clear winner with out a dowt, but I'll not be building it. This build is going to be my first ever build, and for my first build it will need to be somthing easy and conventional. Ive only been flying for 5 months and so pre cut kit will be a massive help to me as I fear my skill of cutting wood from a plan would not be sufficient. I'm not sure what an atom is classed as, but witha propeller on top, to me it's a type of helicopter. Some one like me new to this only wants a nice easy conventional plane, 2 wings and a propeller up front. I'm going to be looking at one of the runners up like the fun fighter or Jocarta. Each to there own and am hoping someone will be able to help with any issue I encounter. Wish me luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 A few odd things in there Martin, Pushy Cat, Dawn Flyer and Mini Jazz had good support last year (you did Mini Jazz) they all got folk building..that not the point of it ? Funfighters? "feel free to build anything of a similar size" how is that any different from build a Piper Cub ? Piper Cub (any) stood in the poll under rules given, and came third now you discount it....after you say "numbers are disappointing this year" ? 31 votes ignored for your preference. Feel free to build a Piper Cub if you wish sounds a bit like what they voted for. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanN Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 I think the organisers are between a rock and a hard place. I can see both sides, although I do have some sympathy with the Cub camp I really hope we see some Cubs being built anyway, aswell as Jocastas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Levanter Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 Martyn. If its clarity the Mass Build is after, it is not achieved by making decisions contrary to a voting result. There are many variations of Cubs and for many it has been a beginners plane in a foamie. Here was a chance for people to build one (reflected in the vote). I did not vote for the Cub but it did come third. One of my choices is involved in this discussion and it didn't make it. No matter, that is what voting is for. As you say I can decide to build it anyway and that remains my prerogative regardless of the result because it does not affect anyone else. It is a shame that we have these discussions after all the effort that you in particular have put into this year's build but I feel that apart from the Atom the rest of the voting has been a waste of time. Transparency in this case would have been achieved if we had simply been told that X, Y and Z were the Mass Build models. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martyn K Posted November 17, 2014 Author Share Posted November 17, 2014 BEB warned me that I would get some stick... I have tried to be absolutely transparent with the voting, I have published the counts on numerous occasions and the top two (Atom and Funfighter) were way out in front. I have even suggested that the small TN fighter plans fall into the Funfighter camp which should satisfy those that suggested the Mossie and small TN Spitfire. I am simply trying to identify a model that would be suitable as a traditional build, i.e, Built up wing and Fuselage etc, Clearly the Funfighter (foam wing) and the Atom don't fall into this camp. I think the Cub would be an absolutely brilliant choice - if someone would select a suitable plan (or reasonably priced kit) - please remember the idea that a build blog is produced by experts that can be followed by beginners. If we don't have a common model then the value of blogs is diminished. I keep saying this, - its not my MB, its yours, please build what you want to build, but build. There are 63 people who have voted who have said they want to take part, lets see 63 build blogs. Martyn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kc Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 All this proves that you cannot please all the people all the time! The main thing is to build a model that you want to fly! Or better still a model that will improve your flying (& building skills ) as well. Starting a model that you dont really want to fly probably means a model that won't be finished! Frankly I have not voted because by the time I saw the thread my favourites were way outvoted. However I would have voted for the Peter Russel STOL as a good alround model which would benefit anyone's hanger and teach people traditional building. And it's a model that could well benefit by being electrified! If you want a Cub then consider the old AeromodellerJack Headley 52 inch plan from the MyHobbyStores plan service. A semi scale cub without complicated cockpit area just sheet construction. . But we don't need to have a definite winner. As long as there are a few people building the same model we can have many Mass Builds. Surely it's up to each group of builders to whip up enough enthusiasm for their chosen design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Levanter Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 kc. If you had voted your choice would have been equal third! Martin. Now you have a good idea from kc why not include the Cub (issue closed as far as the vote is concerned) and leave Jocasta in as the "wild card" I'll shut up now - promise! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Thomas Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 Hi Can anyone please tell me the difference between the Jocasta cnc wood pack and the Jocasta additional wood pack there is a £30 difference between the 2 Also, once built can this model be flown on nitro and the my hobby store says its for electric? Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reg shaw Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 That was the beauty of the Cub(any) category. There would be lots of Cubs from all sorts of camps, foam, all sheet, trainer, small scale, large scale, superscale whatever. All Cubs that pleased their builders from whatever source they used. I have no intention of doing a small all sheet Cub, likewise, most folk wouldn't be doing a 1/3 scaler, why should they, but they all feel like they fit in with Mass Build ideal. In reality though, I care not! I have a Cub on the go and if I get it done I'll bring it, if not I won't, though the reason for getting it done for Greenacres has now gone. Ian. Ps. I'm not in the slightest having a sulk, I fully appreciate the time and effort have put into this and for that I thank you. Edited By reg shaw on 17/11/2014 13:34:20 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martyn K Posted November 17, 2014 Author Share Posted November 17, 2014 OK - lets bring this to an end.. *Please* 1st Atom 2nd Funfighter including the TN small fighter range 3rd Piper Cub/STOL/Jocasta - at the end of the day they are all cabin type similar builds and providing blogs get written there will be a useful learning session for someone.. Please don't mention the Clean Sweep Trio... If you are OK with those, I'll see if MHS can do us a deal on plans and/or parts.. OK? Martyn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 Sounds good to me Martyn, Thanks for all your work John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martyn K Posted November 17, 2014 Author Share Posted November 17, 2014 Posted by Craig thomas 1 on 17/11/2014 13:28:51: Hi Can anyone please tell me the difference between the Jocasta cnc wood pack and the Jocasta additional wood pack there is a £30 difference between the 2 Also, once built can this model be flown on nitro and the my hobby store says its for electric? Craig Hi Craig Typically, the CNC kit is the cut parts kit - very useful if this a first build. It contains Formers, Wing ribs and ply parts etc. all laser cut. The Woodpack is all the sheet and strip wood you would normally need to finish off the construction. Very handy if you don't have a local model shop or a stock in your workshop. Regards Martyn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Levanter Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 It's an OK from me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reg shaw Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 Grand job Martin, I'm in for the Stol plan, not any parts though as I'm building it to suit a Laser 75 magneto job. Cheers, Ian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kc Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 To clarify about CNC pack & woodpack. You need both! Or lots of wood ( more than just the woodpack) and cut the parts yourself. Re the Peter Russel STOL. There were two plans or 2 versions of the wing plans. So if this is a Mass build then the version should be clarified. And everyone should buy the right plan for their needs. Laser 75! STOL! I hear a sort of rotating sound from the Worksop area.! or perhaps it's a twice size version? Edited By kc on 17/11/2014 15:21:32 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martian Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 Posted by reg shaw on 17/11/2014 14:59:40: Grand job Martin, I'm in for the Stol plan, not any parts though as I'm building it to suit a Laser 75 magneto job. Cheers, Ian. Ian will you be doing a build blog on the STOL ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reg shaw Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 Posted by kc on 17/11/2014 15:07:05: To clarify about CNC pack & woodpack. You need both! Or lots of wood ( more than just the woodpack) and cut the parts yourself. Re the Peter Russel STOL. There were two plans or 2 versions of the wing plans. So if this is a Mass build then the version should be clarified. And everyone should buy the right plan for their needs. Laser 75! STOL! I hear a sort of rotating sound from the Worksop area.! or perhaps it's a twice size version? Edited By kc on 17/11/2014 15:21:32 KC, I'll redraw the plan size to suit the Laser, I imagine 85" span or so. What are the differences in the wing and why do we need to limit it to one , they are both Stol's. Martian, I'll do a thread if folks want to see it. Ian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Davis Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 If I'm not too busy moving house and emigrating, I'll build a STOL, but mine will be the normal size! Apropos of wings, there were THREE types. The Mark 1 had flaps. slots and slats but no ailerons. The Mark 2 was the same but with ailerons added and the "Trainer Wing" was a simple wing without any of the STOL accessories which produced a three channel trainer. Oh and did someone say that there was no woodpack for the STOL? http://www.myhobbystore.co.uk/product/35238/stol-mkii-cnc-woodpack-cncrc1445 Edited By David Davis on 17/11/2014 16:45:53 Edited By David Davis on 17/11/2014 16:50:19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reg shaw Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 So its the MkII plan I need, the one with the flaps, slats and ailerons? Thanks David. Ian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kc Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 The article for STOL mark 2 is online here on ModelFlying. and the changes of wing section etc are mentioned. We dont need to limit the Mass Build to one version but the wing construction is quite different which could confuse newer builders if they are working from a different plan. Edited By kc on 17/11/2014 17:31:08 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Harris Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 Martyn, A big thanks from me for taking the time push the mass build for 2015, your enthusiasm is much appreciated . It can be a thankless job but you have kept your cool trying to do something for us all As you can probably guess I am a little humbled at the results and looking forward to seeing the Atom builds get under way, its different / simple and perfect for the die hard modeller looking for a new challenge. It will be a learning curve for most but there will be 100% support, help and advise from myself and the establish 'Gyronuts' already amongst us. If I get chance I will be designing my own fun fighter, I have already done a STOL and have no interest in a Cub. So when do we all start? Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceejay Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 unfortunately the only one i was tempted to do was a cub, given the time and funds i still will do one as i have a set of floats looking for a home, but i cant spare the time and funds for something i will only fly at one event, so time will tell. but i will be at greenacres with a car full of somethings to fly anyhoo!! chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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