cymaz Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 Came across this by accident. If you haven't heard or seen this, its a must for an av-gas head. Put on a good set of headphones, sit back and turn it up loud. I came over all unnecessary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Walters Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 Quite a find Cymaz! Well worth watching thanks! Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon H Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 If you fancy get up close and personal check out the Shackleton preservation guys. They ground run the aircraft and you get to watch! you can even pay a few quid and sit on board while they do it. This video was on their facebook page and shows their dusk engine run. Pretty cool to say the least. sadly I couldn't make it Anyway, sign up, go watch, give 'em a few quid and with a spot of luck the Shackleton will be back in the air again soon :D **LINK** Edited By Jon Harper on 05/12/2014 09:39:57 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve T Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 Best 'music' video I watched for quite some time, should almost be compulsory viewing for warbird builders and fliers, well found! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martian Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 great thanks Cymaz ,they don't start quick enough for a scramble though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Chaddock Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 Martian I think you will find they are being 'kind' to the engines and turning them over a few times with the ignition off to make absolutely sure there is no oil accumulation in the lower cylinders. I note the Merlin start up tends to be rather more instant when it does fire and a bit less smoky! Although inverted the Daimler Benz with its direct fuel injection is even cleaner! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Clarkson Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 Best video iv'e seen in years. Could watch/listen to that 24/7. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cymaz Posted December 5, 2014 Author Share Posted December 5, 2014 Anyone tried it with a set of headphones yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martian Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 Thanks Simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monz Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 Posted by cymaz on 04/12/2014 21:16:56: Came across this by accident. If you haven't heard or seen this, its a must for an av-gas head. Put on a good set of headphones, sit back and turn it up loud. I came over all unnecessary What a waste of time... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monz Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 Then I plugged my 'phones in, turned mute off, sat back and enjoyed some amazing sounds! Weird how watching a bunch of old gas guzzlers starting up gets me going. Loved it! Thanks Cymaz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monz Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 Posted by Simon Chaddock on 05/12/2014 15:23:55: Martian I think you will find they are being 'kind' to the engines and turning them over a few times with the ignition off to make absolutely sure there is no oil accumulation in the lower cylinders. I note the Merlin start up tends to be rather more instant when it does fire and a bit less smoky! Although inverted the Daimler Benz with its direct fuel injection is even cleaner! Sorry Simon old chap, but I must say, you really don't know what you're on about... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nev Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 And there was me thinking it must be a bloke thing There's quite a bit of this stuff on u tube, I find the best time to look for it is when coronation street is on ! Hard to admit but the merlin does sound better in a mustang. Nev. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monz Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 Posted by Nev on 05/12/2014 22:57:21: And there was me thinking it must be a bloke thing There's quite a bit of this stuff on u tube, I find the best time to look for it is when coronation street is on ! Hard to admit but the merlin does sound better in a mustang. Nev. Coronation Street? What's that?? A Merlin with the visual accompaniment of Mr Mitchell's finest will never be surpassed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monz Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 Just for the record: That Merlin linked to above is in Mustang Sally, the first privately owned P51 in SA (where I come from), flown from AFB Swartkops, on the Highveld. The 'easy' starts were hot starts where Menno (that's the guy that owns MS) was taking people for quick flips (note the amount of takeoffs in the clip...). The startup was one of the many he did (note no chocks, or proximity to other aircraft) on the day. Check the shutdown at the end of the clip, groundcrew have placed the chocks, see all the aircraft close by? Also, how much experience do you have, Simon, with the operation of the Merlin, in a P51, at the OAT and density altitude that MS was operating at that day? I can tell you that it was around 34°C and about 9500' AMSL DA... Edited By Monz on 05/12/2014 23:25:59 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Chaddock Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 Monz Maybe it was seeing all those Pratt & Witney R4360 (Stratocruiser) and Wright R3350 (DC7 and Constellation) in the mid 1950s starting up and shrouding the whole Heathrow apron in oil smoke before ploughing their way across the Atlantic must have left an indelible impression on me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Leighfield Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 When listening to these sounds the word "visceral" comes to mind for me. When I did the ground trip in Lancaster "Just Jane" at East Kirkby, being on board while the four Merlins started up was unforgettable. An amazing sound and no perceptible vibration at all. I regret having no recollection of hearing a Napier Sabre, although as a kid I must have because the RAF was flying Tempests into the early fifties as target towers. Also, although there's no chance of ever hearing one, they reckon that the 24 cylinder X layout Rolls Royce Vulture had an amazing sound as well. I'm glad that the hairs on the back of my neck are still capable of standing on end! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Miller Posted December 6, 2014 Share Posted December 6, 2014 Posted by Jon Harper on 05/12/2014 09:39:31: If you fancy get up close and personal check out the Shackleton preservation guys. They ground run the aircraft and you get to watch! you can even pay a few quid and sit on board while they do it. This video was on their facebook page and shows their dusk engine run. Pretty cool to say the least. sadly I couldn't make it Anyway, sign up, go watch, give 'em a few quid and with a spot of luck the Shackleton will be back in the air again soon :D **LINK** Edited By Jon Harper on 05/12/2014 09:39:57 Been the started crew for more Shacks than I care to remember. Somehow Griffons do not have the same sound as Merlins. Possibly because of the contra rotating props.. Also been starter crew for.Lancasters. Flown in both types too as a passenger. However I do admit that big radials are pretty close. Side note. When making the film "Memphis Belle" the French ground crews did not turn the props by hand to clear the oil from the bottom cylinders (A tedious job. We used to have to do it on Varsities) As a result the French B-17s had a habit of dropping cylinders all over East Anglia. That came via Roger Freeman who was a consultant on the film. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cymaz Posted December 6, 2014 Author Share Posted December 6, 2014 Posted by Peter Miller on 06/12/2014 08:50:35: Posted by Jon Harper on 05/12/2014 09:39:31: If you fancy get up close and personal check out the Shackleton preservation guys. They ground run the aircraft and you get to watch! you can even pay a few quid and sit on board while they do it. This video was on their facebook page and shows their dusk engine run. Pretty cool to say the least. sadly I couldn't make it Anyway, sign up, go watch, give 'em a few quid and with a spot of luck the Shackleton will be back in the air again soon :D **LINK** Edited By Jon Harper on 05/12/2014 09:39:57 Very impressive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cymaz Posted December 6, 2014 Author Share Posted December 6, 2014 Another video. There is a treat around 10:10sec Edited By cymaz on 06/12/2014 09:30:27 Edited By cymaz on 06/12/2014 09:30:58 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomas oliver 1 Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 I worked on many aircraft as an engine fitter during the war - mainly Spitfires in Blighty and Liberators in Bengal on 159 Squadron. British aircraft usually required someone in the cockpit to twiddle the throttles and stuff, and someone to plug in the 24 volt trolley-acc. Lancasters were the same and required someone to pump the Ki-gass pump while standing on the tyre and under the nacelle as well. One hoped that the undercart retract lever was left stricly alone. In contrast, when I was in charge of 5 unused Liberators at Poona after the War, I could start up all five one after the other single handedly as they were all electric. One switched on the APU to boost the main battery before entering the cockpit. The magneto switches were all switched to on. Using two hands the the main switch was activated and all throttles set. While depressing the inertia starter switch on no.1 the priming switch was given a few presses then while the inertia switch was reversed to kickover the engine, no2 was primed and so forth. We never at any time turned the engines over to clear the oil and had fantastic reliability from the engines. They were about twice as reliable as Merlins I hate to admit. Inertia starters use a small motor to spin a tiny flywheel up to over 100.000 revs if I remember rightly, then the power was kicked in with a clutch. This would spin the engine over fast for a good few revs. - enough to start the engine if everything was set correctly. Another method used on Spitfire MKVs was the Koffman starter which used a cartridge like a large shot gun cartridge which blew a main charge out of a supply cylinder of 5 down a tube and into another cylinder attached to the reduction gear at the front through a Bendix drive. When the main charge expanded in the cylinder it created enormous pressure on the drive and would spin the engine over many tiimes . This method was Meteors. It had for us a big advantage of not having to drag a heavy trolly-acc around., just a pocket full of cartridges. Hope I haven't bored you all with this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 I don't know a great deal about fullsize Thomas, but I do know you will not bore people on here with stories about them John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Chaddock Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 A Griffon sounds different to a Merlin primarily because they have different valve timing and overlap. The Merlin had quite 'aggressive' timing. Not that surprising as it ultimately produced virtually the same power but from just 3/4 the capacity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Hopkin Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 Posted by thomas oliver 1 on 15/12/2014 00:26:56: I worked on many aircraft as an engine fitter during the war - mainly Spitfires in Blighty and Liberators in Bengal on 159 Squadron. British aircraft usually required someone in the cockpit to twiddle the throttles and stuff, and someone to plug in the 24 volt trolley-acc. Lancasters were the same and required someone to pump the Ki-gass pump while standing on the tyre and under the nacelle as well. One hoped that the undercart retract lever was left stricly alone. In contrast, when I was in charge of 5 unused Liberators at Poona after the War, I could start up all five one after the other single handedly as they were all electric. One switched on the APU to boost the main battery before entering the cockpit. The magneto switches were all switched to on. Using two hands the the main switch was activated and all throttles set. While depressing the inertia starter switch on no.1 the priming switch was given a few presses then while the inertia switch was reversed to kickover the engine, no2 was primed and so forth. We never at any time turned the engines over to clear the oil and had fantastic reliability from the engines. They were about twice as reliable as Merlins I hate to admit. Inertia starters use a small motor to spin a tiny flywheel up to over 100.000 revs if I remember rightly, then the power was kicked in with a clutch. This would spin the engine over fast for a good few revs. - enough to start the engine if everything was set correctly. Another method used on Spitfire MKVs was the Koffman starter which used a cartridge like a large shot gun cartridge which blew a main charge out of a supply cylinder of 5 down a tube and into another cylinder attached to the reduction gear at the front through a Bendix drive. When the main charge expanded in the cylinder it created enormous pressure on the drive and would spin the engine over many tiimes . This method was Meteors. It had for us a big advantage of not having to drag a heavy trolly-acc around., just a pocket full of cartridges. Hope I haven't bored you all with this. You cant stop there! more... more.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cymaz Posted December 15, 2014 Author Share Posted December 15, 2014 Write it all down T.O.1 , its all history. It will all be forgotten about unless it's on the page. My dad, now long gone, was a navigator on Lancs at St. Eval, Lossimouth and went down to South Africa near the end of the war. Never said why, never wrote it down .....all gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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