Quad Flying

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

A lot of modellers dismiss quads -

1. they are too easy to fly and present no challenge.

2. there is no real "modelling" involved - nothing to "build", they are just assembled, nothing to tinker with, nothing to fettle.

Once the novelty has worn off they are just another "must have" gadget or even just a toy.

But is this all true? I've been flying fixed wing models for a long time and I've built a fair number from plans and kits - not just ARTF's. So I'd think of myself as a fairly mainstream "aeromodeller". Over the last 12 months I've started flying quads as well - first out of curiosity, then doing it at work. So, it occurs to me that I'm in a fairly rare position, a dyed in wool aeromodeller with more than passing experience of quads. What do I make of them then? Are they without real interest or challenge?

Well if you had asked me that when I first started flying quads I would have been pretty dismissive and said of them many of the things most modellers do say of them. I started off with a small Turnegy quad. Putting it together took all of 10 minutes. The biggest challenge was understanding the woefully inadequate instructions to set it up! Once past that - well, it went up and down, left and right, forwards and backwards and.... that's about it really. Its about as difficult as steering an RC car! And about as much fun

Then I discovered fiddling with the gains on the gyros - Mmm, this is more interesting.

Then we got some DJI Flamewheels with GPS and Naza M2 flight controllers. Building was still pretty basic but fiddling with the more sophisticated flight controller and implementing its various more advanced features on my Tx was quite interesting. But basically it still just went up and down, left and right, forward and backward.

Then I added a gimbal and a camera. This was more interesting and I began to see the point of the multi-rotor's stability - it frees you up from the flying task to operate the payload via the sliders and switches on the Tx - you can start and stop video, switch between video and single shot, change camera settings and pan and tilt the camera. More fun - maybe not modelling as we have known it, but definitely more fun and more of a challenge.

Next I learnt about the GPS - how to link GPS lat/long co-ords to OS map lat/long co-ords (no, before you ask, and remarkable as it may seem, they are not the same!) I also learnt how to use mission planning software to set way-points and how to integrate that with Google earth etc. Again, maybe not modelling as we normally think about it - but none-the-less quite interesting and challenging stuff,

Then I decided to try switching out the GPS and the stabilisation and flying the quad fully manually. Oh boy - forget any ideas you have that quads are easy to fly - even with many years experience "on the sticks" this was very far from easy. My tame, to the point of boring, multi-rotor became a tiger by the tail. It was extraordinarily manoeuvrable (read utterly unstable!) Difficult to fly - no shortage of challenge here - but very rewarding when you "crack it" and lots of potential for some very wild aerobatics!

I've gone on now to fly much larger multi-rotors with a number of highly complex sub-systems and payloads on board. They definitely represent a challenge - in spades!

'Cont'

Edited By Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 23/12/2014 11:28:38

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

So, what's my conclusion? Well I think that multi-rotors do represent a challenge worthy of being admitted into the fraternity of aeromodellers - but it is a very different challenge. Its about integrating fairly complex systems and getting them to work optimally together, its less about flying (although that challenge is there if you want it on manual setting) and more about what you can do as a result of being in the air! And its about opening up new challenges - take a look at James B's videos and tell me "that's easy and has no challenge"! Check out the brand new sport of "quad racing" - very exciting and enough challenge there to satisfy anyone!

I think the problem is that a lot of modellers have tried an ultra cheap ATF mini quad and thought "not much to that", which of course is right. But in reality that's like buying a small co-axial helicopter and saying that there isn't much to RC helicopter flying! Only its even more different than that!

So, having trod the path, I'd say lets be open minded about our multi-rotor flying cousins. Yes many of then do not come from the same ancestry as us - and their devices look a bit weird. But they are doing what we are doing - having fun by flying stuff. They really do have their challenges, and their interesting bits of technology - but they are different from ours that's all.

Let's stop the "embrace them and then we can turn them into real aeromodellers" stuff, which let's be honest is a bit patronising of us! They have something new, challenging and interesting in its own right. OK most of the newer ones have never dared to turn off the GPS and stabilisation - yet! But when they do I'll predict that we will start to see a whole new spectacular discipline of multi-rotor aerobatics - and believe me when the young bucks get a grip on that prepare to be amazed at what these devices can do in that mode!

So, my Christmas wish is that we, the mainstream modelling fraternity, stop rambling on about doom and gloom re terriorist attacks with multi-rotors, stop treating then dismissively and instead genuinely, wholeheartedly, embrace a new expression of our hobby! Quad flying may not be for everyone, but hey slope soaring isn't for everyone But it is interesting, challenging and possibly the most significant new expression of our wonderful hobby since proportional control came on the scene!

Just some Christmas thoughts....

BEB

[Frank Skilbeck]

I delved into quads a couple of years ago with a Dualsky quad with a pretty basic flight controller, not quite as difficult to fly as my Blade 300x heli (nor as responsive), but if all you've flown is fixed wing then they are a challenge to fly without all the flight stablisation devices.

I can see them going down two routes, 1) aerial video/photography, where they are just a means of taking a camera aloft so will use the maximum amount of flight aids and 2) FPV (including the FPV "pod" racing) where the users will want maximum response to be able to fly fast round tight circuits. I can see the later becoming a whole new branch of pylon racing.

[scott finnie]

Hi Beb and everyone else. I must have been one of a few who owned a few top of the range quads 1 to 2 years ago. I really can't believe how cheap you can obtain one for these days. When I was setting up my aerial photography company most of my potential customers and the media just laughed and didn't see any use for them. I sadly had to invest in ?10k for a quad with similar spec to a Dji Phantom! I am fully aware of the grief many will experience but its all down to how we fly them. Yes if you fly down a busy street or in flight paths then expect to get in trouble though if you fly with respect to other aeromodellers then I can see nothing but friends forming!

I ended my aerial business just as everything boomed sadly but back then the hassle I went through obtaining by BNUC , insurance ect I'm happy I got away from it,

Here's a link to our last bit of work at The Five Sisters Zoo

PS there wasn't even a brushless gimbal available then so it was point and shoot flying

[scott finnie]

Can't seem to add my link in. But if you type five sister's zoo into Google. Go to there page , click our zoo and videos. You shall see an intrigued bear watching its supper

Thanks Getting Close To The Bears: http://youtu.be/l9skWXkkgxU

Edited By scott finnie on 23/12/2014 12:33:06

[Wingman]

Hmm - so quads are a sort of 3D manifestation of computer programming?

Can't see them being much good for aerobatics as they look pretty much the same whatever way up they are and towing a ribbon or such could be problematical - I suppose you could fit them with an elongated body and perhaps a lightweight cross piece

Anyways our club welcomes them providing they are demonstrated to be under manual control at the flick of a switch on the TX.

[scott finnie]

Wingman what I worry about is that most of the cheaper quads on the market will give there users false confidence that there very good pilots. That's when they decide to buy t-rex 700s and large brushless aircraft. That's when the havock starts when there's no flight assists available to help. No return to home and no self stabilising

[Tony Read 2]

I don't always agree with BEB , but he is spot on here. Look up the Stingray 500 - it can probably out fly most 3D helicopters, whereas a multi fitted with one of the new generation 3-axis gimbals and a HD camera will give better than broadcast quality images. So plenty of opportunities for people to become interested in the different aspects of multi rotor flying. Whatever gives you a buzz!

Long live the multi!

[Steve T]

Beb agree totally, quads are as much fun and challenging as you want to make them, I have had some awesome flights with my quads, sadly more so than some of my fixed wings, don't knock it until you try it eh?

[avtur]

I agree with the open minded approach, I find the technology fascinating and look forward to watching it develop further.

There's no doubt this area of interest is growing far faster than any other discipline within our hobby, I'd much rather see an inclusive approach to new entrants which should help inform them about how and where to fly, both safely and within the law.

I've watched some multi rotor racing on You Tube and it looks incredible, these machines zipping through woodland with bright LED's in their tails look like something out of the movies ... Sadly I don't think my reactions and coordination is up to that sort of performance but it's fascinating to watch.

Also watching the TV I'd have to believe that multi rotors are being adopted very quickly to be used as camera platforms.

Edited By avtur on 23/12/2014 13:55:37

[Steve T]

Should be a bit of a no brainier really, look how impressed this months RCME is with the Quattro X, it's on my shopping list...along with a Mosquito !

[Steve T]

FPV racing...through the woods, very Star Wars, and sounds awesome.....and maybe expensive, but this does get me well up for it. I may have a very gentle try down my orchard, where the trees are far apart !

[Steve T]

As if to prove the point, just looked to buy a Quattro X online, everyone seems to be out of stock!

Hmmm.

[Allan Bowker]

[Steve T]

10 out of 10 for that, maybe I will fly even slower through the orchard, but that looks so much fun. By the way I will soon be 60 so it's what you make it.

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Pretty much agree BEB, some flying them surprise you how fast and agile they can be, but as they are not mainstream the progress is slower I guess. "Proper Modelling" well that's a daft phrase, we all benefit from advances in technology.

John

[Essjay]

I reckon when I get fed up with my Blade 350QX I might try one of these.

Edited By Essjay on 23/12/2014 17:14:56

Edited By Essjay on 23/12/2014 17:29:07

[malcolm woodcock 1]

I prefer fixed wing and hooligan aerobatics but each to their own.

[Steve Colman]

While I'm very much into fixed wing flying I do see one of these machines in my future as part of growing and developing in the hobby.

Also, as a long time photographer who's just starting to dabble in aerial photography/video, this is where I see their potential, especially in their ability to go to places impossible for fixed wing aircraft.

Personally, I'd dearly love to try FPV as well, using either or both platforms.

[Tony Read 2]

Posted by Steve T on 23/12/2014 14:23:47:

As if to prove the point, just looked to buy a Quattro X online, everyone seems to be out of stock!

Hmmm.

Wow! See what you mean about being out of stock! How does it stack up against the competition Steve?

[scott finnie]

I find a lot of local fpv pilots are from the PC Pilot generation since it is the experience of flying a real aircraft without you're ppl ect. Though the difference between PC Pilot and FPV is the reset on your PC when it goes horribly wrong. I still love my sims. Though you can't beat the freezing Scottish air, wind and sleet I've found myself flying in. Oh well thanks for the warm welcome back to the UK for Christmas !

Scott

[The Wright Stuff]

Certainly an interesting discussion. To be honest, the main reason I've overlooked them is that I'm primarily interested in scale.

When there's a full size quad to replicate in model form, I'll be right there!

[Frank Skilbeck]

Posted by The Wright Stuff on 24/12/2014 11:07:31:

Certainly an interesting discussion. To be honest, the main reason I've overlooked them is that I'm primarily interested in scale.

When there's a full size quad to replicate in model form, I'll be right there!

Not quite a quad, but you could be the first with a scale model . This looks like an area where fullsize will be developed after the models.

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

Posted by Frank Skilbeck on 24/12/2014 14:50:34:

Posted by The Wright Stuff on 24/12/2014 11:07:31:

Certainly an interesting discussion. To be honest, the main reason I've overlooked them is that I'm primarily interested in scale.

When there's a full size quad to replicate in model form, I'll be right there!

Not quite a quad, but you could be the first with a scale model . This looks like an area where fullsize will be developed after the models.

As was the case with fixed wing.

BEB

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

Here we go - brand new from HK - collective pitch and all. It was only a matter of time. That should put the 3D cats amongst the aerobatic pigeons!

BEB