scott finnie Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 I can't believe that after such an advance in tracking and radar especially after the Malaysian airlines flight last year that this can continue happening. Very sad for everyone involved Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Jefferies Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 Sad, certainly but let's wait and see what happened. I get quite irritated by all the "experts" sounding off about this or that before anyone knows what really happened........ I well recall just after the Malaysian aircraft went missing one BBC "expert" said that the airline had been trying to save money and that the disappearence may have been due to faulty maintenance! Of course everybody wants to know the cause of an accident but uninformed speculation only causes alarm and anguish. We will have to wait and see what FACTS emerge........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert Jones 14 Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 Informed speculation can be found here:**LINK** Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John F Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 Auntie beeb isn't the only folk who use speculation, although I would say it was informed rather than pure guesswork Paul. Banka Pos are already stating they have an AIrbus crash in their waters at Belitung. http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/malaysia/article/reports-of-plane-crash-in-belitung-timur-says-indonesian-portal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bouncebounce crunch Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 Horrible, I feel so sorry for the families involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avtur Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 Very sad for all involved. All the media outlets turn to their 'pet' industry experts at times like this. These so called experts enjoy varied reputations for their credibility ... even amongst themselves. Sadly its a matter of time passing and the facts becoming known. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kc Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 The link that Robert gave has an amazing amount of info........but the most amazing thing is that someone mentioned " pay to fly" meaning ( I think ) that some pilots pay to fly jets to get experience! With passengers? If so we need to know which airlines do this and which dont - regardless of whether this is a factor in this disappearance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avtur Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 Many, many years ago BEA and BOAC (showing my age!) jointly operated a flight training school at Hamble, wannabe pilots were recruited and trained at the airlines' cost ... those were the days. These days there are so many wannabe pilots that airlines don't need to sponsor pilot training the way they used to, why would they when people are willing to fund their own training, no financial risk to the airline. That is what markets forces can do. However this relates to how training costs are funded and (as AR states above) has no impact on the skill level required to pass the required training exams. The airlines do not control the exam requirements, that is for the likes of the CAA and other authorities around the would. Another area where market forces also have an impact is in the salaries paid to pilots. At the moment there is an over supply of pilots so salaries (certainly starting salaries) are low. Speaking to commercial pilots used to be an everyday occurrence for me, I was surprised how low they were, I heard figures of barely £20k talked about. With regard to the accident flight being discussed, the captain was said to have over 20,000 hours experience with over 7,000 hours on type, that is one very experienced pilot. Edited By avtur on 28/12/2014 17:10:55 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott finnie Posted December 28, 2014 Author Share Posted December 28, 2014 My heart goes out to all the families since now sadly its a waiting game till the search continues tomorrow. I do agree that the pilot was very experienced so it does begin to point towards other factors rather than pilot error. Though i'll stand quiet and await tomorrows updates. Its been a very eventful day for land, sea and air. You have a missing plane, sinking, burning vessel and 15,000 trapped in the Alps. I hope all make it home safe Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avtur Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 Posted by scott finnie on 28/12/2014 17:27:36: ....... Its been a very eventful day for land, sea and air. You have a missing plane, sinking, burning vessel and 15,000 trapped in the Alps. I hope all make it home safe Scott Yes, makes you think doesn't it. I'm glad to be tucked up in holiday cottage next to a beach in North Wales. Hoping for the best outcome for those caught up in these unexpected events. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Privett Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 Posted by avtur on 28/12/2014 17:08:41: These days there are so many wannabe pilots that airlines don't need to sponsor pilot training the way they used to, why would they when people are willing to fund their own training, no financial risk to the airline. That is what markets forces can do. <snip> Another area where market forces also have an impact is in the salaries paid to pilots. At the moment there is an over supply of pilots so salaries (certainly starting salaries) are low. Speaking to commercial pilots used to be an everyday occurrence for me, I was surprised how low they were, I heard figures of barely £20k talked about. Two of our club members illustrate both avtur's points. One is a recent graduate and a 'wannabee' airline pilot. He applied and got part-way through BA's trainee selection process last year, and is re-trying this year with another major airline. From the figures he gave me, the airline had around 4,000 applicants from which about 400 were selected for an initial screening - a day's process for each one. Most of the 400 reached the 'pass' standard, but the the airline will be taking the top 40 or so to the next stage from which they will start training 24 with the expectation that 12 pilots will be trained at the airline's expense... Another club member has a commercial pilot's licence, with multi-engine and instrument ratings. Currently the job market for pilots is such that he has an IT job and just flies for fun... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erfolg Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 The aspect that does surprise me in this era, is as already been mentioned, the apparent gap in knowledge on when and where contact is lost. In this era, where even the humble car is built with data recording built into the vehicle, you could anticipate that on a routine basis that an aircraft would transmit some basis details of its location and aircraft performance etc. Would it cost a lot? The data could be stored i would have thought, for at least for the duration of a flight, at a ground location. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert Jones 14 Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Posted by Erfolg on 28/12/2014 21:21:02: The aspect that does surprise me in this era, is as already been mentioned, the apparent gap in knowledge on when and where contact is lost. In this era, where even the humble car is built with data recording built into the vehicle, you could anticipate that on a routine basis that an aircraft would transmit some basis details of its location and aircraft performance etc. Would it cost a lot? The data could be stored i would have thought, for at least for the duration of a flight, at a ground location. Most commercial aircraft transmit their GPS-based position twice per second. This is part of their ADS-B broadcasts. The problem with providing world-wide receiver coverage for this system is that the frequency it uses only travels line via line of sight, so it won't travel past the horizon. Providing coverage over large bodies of water would require a network of buoys, which would be quite expensive. Another possibility is to put ADS-B receivers on satellites. This concept is being developed by Thales Alenia Space and Iridium (Aireon) at the moment. The first satellites will launch next year, the system is expected to be operational in 2018 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Marsh Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Looks they might've found something. They never found MH350. At least the CVR and FDR will shed light what happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josip Vrandecic -Mes Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 **LINK** Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Marsh Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Doesn't work, probably not in the UK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Bott - Moderator Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Your link works fine for me, thanks Josip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 The link works fine. How would it not being in the UK make any difference? BEB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Marsh Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 It doesn't work for me, got the latest Adobe driver. Obviously, BEB, you don't know about licencing constraints such as FOX, CNN in other countries, although this isn't the case, can be. The link, works, but not the Video. Edited By Paul Marsh on 30/12/2014 11:47:42 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve T Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Yep, link works fine, video just sits there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Essjay Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Link working fine, video takes quite a while to load, give it time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott finnie Posted December 30, 2014 Author Share Posted December 30, 2014 ANOTHER Air Asia plane incident! **LINK** Really isn't a great year for aviation . Luckily nobody injured Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Green Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Whats the concensus here, do we believe that a pilot of such experience, at 38,000 feet and with two good engines, couldnt recover from a stall? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott finnie Posted December 30, 2014 Author Share Posted December 30, 2014 Phil i was thinking that earlier, i feel there has to be more too it, or maybe like the air france incident he chose not to believe his instruments and became disoriented. Without being able to see the ground he might of had the feeling he was climbing but was stalling with the nose sitting up there high. He may have thought the low air speed reading was caused by ice. Though 38,000ft is pretty high for both of them not manage a recovery. im sure the FDR will reveal what was going on in there, though it does look like its stayed in a stable nose up position all the way to the sea if they believe its in an aircraft like shape on the bottom. That could only be from a lower airspeed crash. Very sad loss it seems and more like a preventable one too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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