john stones 1 - Moderator Posted July 11, 2015 Author Share Posted July 11, 2015 If I remember right Martin, proxies also prevented amendments being made to proposals ? John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 Yes, that's what was said at the beginning - good point, John. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Hopkin Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 If memory serves the number of country members increased when membership renewal was automated on-line So it would be interesting to know how many country members were NOT also club members It shouldn't be beyond the wit of man to knock up some SQL to make that query! If the BMFA cant do it I am more than happy to sign a NDA with the BMFA and do the data crunching myself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Privett Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 Posted by Dave Hopkin on 11/07/2015 23:48:05: So it would be interesting to know how many country members were NOT also club members It shouldn't be beyond the wit of man to knock up some SQL to make that query! But that query requires data that the BMFA do not posses. My club currently has 233 members. The BMFA could easily identity the 64 members whose BMFA membership is through my club. But they have no idea that there are a further 76 BMFA country members who are members of my club - nor that there are 93 more members of my club whose BMFA membership is through another club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted July 12, 2015 Author Share Posted July 12, 2015 The reply I received from the BMFA was encouraging, there are views expressed on the discussion thread (BMFA) and am told office has received e-mails about it, it'll not change overnight, so seems right to be patient to me. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyB Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 Posted by Dave Hopkin on 11/07/2015 17:13:53: Personally I would propose that: All the consitution be changed to specify that members are individuals not clubs That a system of "one person one vote" be adopted (and that would include the removal of Fellows having 5 votes) That voting in AGM or EGM may be carried out as follows: 1) An individual member may delegate his/her vote to his/her lead club representative 2) That an individual member may cast his/her vote via the Internet prior to any meeting 3) That all votes (AGM/EGM) be notified to all members via an email to the address the member registered with the BMFA 4) That all votes (AGM/EGM) be notified to all club representatives via email 5) That the voting adgenda be publicised at least 28 days prior to a vote I like your proposal a lot Dave, but I think there does need to be some additional clarification on proxy voting. Apparently it was stated by BMFA leadership at the EGM that no changes could be made to the proposals on the day because of proxy votes being cast in advanc; however I have found nothing in my first read through of the Articles that explicitly states that. This is also counter to some of the comments put in the other thread during the lead up to the EGM where Keith Lomax stated a OMOV postal or electronic voting was not an option because the proposals might be changed at the meeting, rendering those proxy votes invalid. This grey area needs to be addressed when the changes regarding inclusion of Country members is made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyB Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 Posted by Andy Symons - BMFA on 11/07/2015 16:47:58: The only option for how the NFC was handled was to follow the Articles of Association, thats is what was done. anything else would be totally unacceptable. There is general agreement that they should be updated however there is no choice but to follow whatever they are. I am not contesting that the Articles were followed; they were. However there were other options... Under "Voting" on pg 10 of the Handbook I found this interesting entry; it appears that there is provision for one member one vote postal votes should the Full Council wish to use it in this instance, with no obvious restrictions over what it can be used for: "(2) VOTING RIGHTS IN POSTAL BALLOTS are decided by BMFA Council each year. Depending on circumstances, all BMFA members may be eligible to vote in the postal ballot and voting forms will be distributed as required." If the BMFA leadership heard the feedback given by members on the voting system in the run-up to the EGM and considered it valid (as now seems to be the case), why not include additional proposals on reforming the voting system prior to the NFC vote? This might have required a postponement of the EGM by a few weeks, but as we now know there is no target site under consideration for purchase so the impact of this is almost certainly zero. Doing this would have shown they were listening to feedback and making an effort to do the right thing and include everyone in the decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Symons - BMFA Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 I suspect because changing the voting system is likely to involve changes to the company structure too and is probably going to be quite a complex process. Certainly not something there is a quick fix for.Edited By Andy Symons - BMFA on 12/07/2015 12:30:17 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Hopkin Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 Posted by Andy Symons - BMFA on 12/07/2015 12:17:15: I suspect because changing the voting system is likely to involve changes to the company structure too and is probably going to be quite a complex process. Certainly not something there is a quick fix for. Edited By Andy Symons - BMFA on 12/07/2015 12:30:17 I dont think anyone expects an overnight change Andy, but first we have to identify a voting system that is practical, acceptable and appropriate - I suspect that may take many iterations of wording! Once we have what seems to be a suitable solution then we can lobby for it at area level and onwards to full council Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted July 12, 2015 Author Share Posted July 12, 2015 First batch of notices about AGM, sent to all club secretarys, may be of some interest to you the rest is nominations forms. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted January 7, 2017 Author Share Posted January 7, 2017 Well it's been a while since EGM, and was clearly stated it will be looked at, and the will to address it is there, we lost the will or have i missed something ? John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denis Watkins Posted January 7, 2017 Share Posted January 7, 2017 As secretary, I informed my club of the NFC Vote and Not One person came back to me with a vote ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy48 Posted January 7, 2017 Share Posted January 7, 2017 Posted by Cuban8 on 04/07/2015 00:36:46: Posted by ChrisB on 03/07/2015 23:25:06: As membership secretary, there are 20 or so members I've never met, who renew subs through the post and its always hard work just collecting the annual subs and certainly wouldn't have them all in and sorted by the BMFA renewal deadline. Usually it takes much chasing to get everyones subs in. Edited By ChrisB on 03/07/2015 23:41:55 I've been Membership Sec of our club for quite a while now, and we used to have this problem of late payers. I believe that some people thought that as they wouldn't be flying until the Spring they'd leave coughing up their subs until April or May.The answer was simple, we put our £54 club sub up by £15 and then offered a £15 discount on all renewals received before January 1st. Members now chase me to pay before the deadline! Both the clubs I'm a member of have a penalty for late payment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted January 7, 2017 Share Posted January 7, 2017 Posted by john stones 1 on 07/01/2017 17:37:20: Well it's been a while since EGM, and was clearly stated it will be looked at, and the will to address it is there, we lost the will or have i missed something ? John I don't advocate holdong your breath John. You raised this 18 months ago - so far (as far as I can see - happy to be shown to be wrong) this ball has been well and truely batted into the long grass. Nothing underhand you understand - all done totally according to due proceedure. Which is the problem of course - you are trying to change the proceedure and "turkeys don't vote for Christmas". The full modern concept of democratic accountability will remain a stranger to the BMFA for the freseeable future is my guess. Sad but there we are. BEB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted January 7, 2017 Author Share Posted January 7, 2017 I have asked the question elsewhere BEB, but will have to wait for a reply, with all that going on you'd like to think this would be sorted. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaunie Posted January 7, 2017 Share Posted January 7, 2017 I'm a country member and proud of the fact! I've not always been a club member when I've been actively flying and have no idea why my membership should relate to the club I currently fly in. Now here's the rub, just because I am a member of the BMFA without going through the conduit of a club, why should I be a second class citizen and not get a vote? I know it's not an end of the world thing but I pay the same money, I should get the same rights. I am aware this might require constitutional changes and is probably due to poor setting up of the articles of the BMFA many years ago but it should be changed to ensure equal treatment of all members. Shaunie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Essjay Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 Just out of curiosity, do the AMA in the US have the equivalent of the BMFA's Country Members. And do they get to vote? Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaunie Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 Two things Percy. I am a member of a BMFA affiliated club so I need BMFA membership for that. I am not dissatisfied with the BMFA, I just think they should level the playing field, that's all. Shaunie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich too Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 It's not their playing field it belongs to the members! I had no idea, and frankly it's disgusting, and I will vote with my wallet and look at alternatives. Percy, are you with the LMA? For what it's worth I emailed the bmfa for the numbers some time ago and got no response. Edited By Rich2 on 08/01/2017 13:06:45 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LUKE GRICE Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 I think it`s the club that has the vote. Or i maybe wrong ? One club one vote. That why Country members get no vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich too Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 It's lucky that I found this thread, either I forgot to renew or I didn't receive a reminder from bmfa. Anyway, I have jumped ship, and I am now a lma member Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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