2016 Nationals

[Cabbage Man]

There is a similar situation at Middle Wallop with the events that use the site.

New rules for non aviation use of the aerodrome have been introduced nationally and this may be the reason.

Agree with Erflog that in its heart, the nationals is a very small event for the benefit of a very small number of entrants. Its the other stuff that's made the nationals what it is.

I personally have never gone as I cant watch modelling for long without wanting to do it myself and that I can do from my excellent club site.

[Area 51]

Posted by Electric God on 13/01/2016 09:20:36:

There is a similar situation at Middle Wallop with the events that use the site.

New rules for non aviation use of the aerodrome have been introduced nationally and this may be the reason.

Agree with Erflog that in its heart, the nationals is a very small event for the benefit of a very small number of entrants. Its the other stuff that's made the nationals what it is.

I personally have never gone as I cant watch modelling for long without wanting to do it myself and that I can do from my excellent club site.

Interesting you say "new rules" have been introduced. This would explain why modelling never returned to Woodvale after it was cancelled due to work at the site a few years back.

If this is the case, then perhaps a better detailed description of these changes would improve everyones awareness of how such sites are at risk! However, I cannot see how a model flying weekend is classed as "non aviation"..

A rock concert at the site yes, even a car boot etc.. but the nationals is most definately a national aviation event!

If national security is tightened, all they need do is secure site buildings and arrange the event away from these areas... Naturally the event security costs would need to be met by the organisers...

Unless the airfield is on reaction alert or standby, I cannot see any UK base being "open for business" over a bank holiday weekend.. unless of course they are on active operations at that time..

Do these "new rules" explain why the LMA event at Cosford last summer was switched to the other side of the airfield at short notice?..

It it does, it seems a little strange as punters were still able to wander amongst the buildings, in fact the flying took place over where the crowds used to be and this is closer to the buildings!..

If the BMFA know a concrete reason/explanation, then why not say in detial? Should end spculation and perhaps get members to assist in finding new site..

Always solutions if one is prepared to look at it that way!

Buying a site is not the answer in my opinion..

[Cabbage Man]

Ive tried to find info on this but the only reference is in the SAM1066 newsletter . It refers to new rules from the Military Aviation Authority over the use of airfields especially out of operational hours.

There has been new rules that ban such activity although airfield commanders are trying to be accommodating as possible.

[Area 51]

Thanks leccy god.. some of the airfield management was outsourced at Woodvale; I knew a chap there.

He did confirm the airfield had asbestos under the ground and it needed removing, therefore a risk was present across the whole area whilst this was completed so the shows there stopped in recent years.

However the model flying has never returned; maybe a part of it is the cost of running it/insurance.. should we ask/expect the BMFA to build bridges with airfield commanders/RAFMAA to secure a site for a few weekends a year.. its not a lot too ask..

A combined effort from the LMA/BMFA etc to such RAF offices could result in a reasonable consideration being given to a regulated, insured and represented group such as ourselves being allowed to use the facilities..

Full size airshows appear to be dieing a death over the UK, it would be a shame to think our hobby is heading the same way..

[Erfolg]

The Woodvale event was major in the North West, many thousands would regularly attend from all the major cities and not so major towns. The draw was not just aeromodelling, transcending into classic cars, cycle racing, industrial/farm machinery. It was a real day out for thousands, of all ages and sexes.

What about aeromedelling is a question you may be thinking. This was also cosmopolitan in its remit, including I believe the Bowden FF trophy, and various RC model displays.

Perhaps something along the same lines could be a way forward, where if it were to be at Woodvale, the event would almost certainly make a profit, probably breaking even if the weather were to be poor.

If the organisers were to be contacted. the availability of Woodvale could be established. If this were to positive, the organisational skills of the people could possibly be harnessed into slotting the National Events into the overall package.

Edited By Erfolg on 13/01/2016 17:23:50

[ken anderson.]

remember when computerfair's/shows were the rage in the 90's...we used to go because you could get a bargain........ now they are finished and no longer held.....model show's where you went also for a good day out and bag a bargain are going the same way....and to us the bmfa members and model flyers it's a bit of a yawn dont you think...going to watch the latest/largest tech wonders that we know we never will be able to buy/build/fly...so once you've seen them thats it..............i remember at Elvington(after hours) watching P Heckles flying a Wot 4 no more than 2-3 ft off the ground (prop hanging)...we were amazed and when he finished-aprox 20 min....i asked him what was so special about the model/set up he said ...nothing...bog standard c/w an enya 45SS.....enjoy what shows there are-for i think that they are disappearing same way as the LMS...and we'll be left with the internet yahoo/not....my opinion..... and thought's.

ken anderson...ne...1 ....90's dept.

[fly-navy]

Posted by Eagle 899 on 12/01/2016 13:19:08:

Posted by Flyer on 12/01/2016 11:39:2

I'd love to go there again! I was stationed there, working on Fairey Gannets in the mid sixties, when it was RNAS Brawdy.

And me, loved it there. Don't suppose you remember The Bridge at Solva

Sorry back on topic, just hope something can be sorted for something similar to the Nats, usual shows seem to have lost something for me these days.

[Andy G.]

Part of the new rules for Middle Wallop are....... greatly reduced flying hours, confirmation of site availability unavailable until the morning of the event, and the killer for free flight is an assurance that models will NoT FLY OFF THE AIRFIELD!!

[John F]

This thread is starting to be a winge at the MOD for some and I, for one, am bemused as to how some people can come up with these suggestions.

An active unit is active. The airfield might be currently active, is required to be active 24/7 in emergencies as a divert airfield choice or as a responsive airfield, has other priorities such as Air Ambulance which can go at any time or is simply not available due to the sensitive nature of other activities on the unit.

The reply from folk here is "It's OK, we'll stay in the corner" or "Bet they'll have horse events though" and "I pay my taxes therefore it is ours".

I thought this place was full of adults with adult thinking. Instead it's full of rumour, speculation and silliness.

If the BMFA cannot get a place at Barkston it does not mean that the MOD owes you one, or has a grievance against model aircraft they just simply cannot use Barkston at this current time due to building work.

Has anyone approached the BMFA and asked what the plan is? If they have any work in progress? You know . . .from the horses mouth?

Posted by Area 51 on 13/01/2016 12:26:41:

Full size airshows appear to be dieing a death over the UK, it would be a shame to think our hobby is heading the same way..

There are plenty here: **LINK** how is it dying off?

[Frank Skilbeck]

Posted by Andy G. on 14/01/2016 08:27:13:

Part of the new rules for Middle Wallop are....... greatly reduced flying hours, confirmation of site availability unavailable until the morning of the event, and the killer for free flight is an assurance that models will NoT FLY OFF THE AIRFIELD!!

And on the last aerotow event last year, you weren't allowed on site until the official start time because you hadn't done the "driving on an airfield course". But it does look like things are sorted for aerotows next year at Middle Wallop.

[Cabbage Man]

I thought this place was full of adults with adult thinking. Instead it's full of rumour, speculation and silliness.

Err yes that's the whole purpose of the interweb surely?

Lol!

[Erfolg]

The answer to your question is that our area Chairman at the last BMFA meeting told us about the situation at Barkston. There was a very short discussion, where many thought the venue has probably gone, if not for ever, almost certainly for some time.

There was no feed back as to what the current BMFA thinking is.

I suspect that the situation will be used as a political tool, for those who want a NFC.

Perhaps a bit of thinking about other alternatives will not be amiss. Again, perhaps something in the mag, with respect to alternatives and initiatives that are being now being pursued.

[IanN]

Posted by alec james on 11/01/2016 20:58:53:

Essjay I think Long Marston has been sold for housing otherwise that would have been a good venue for sure.

Didn't know that - a web search shows that Cala Homes are proposing a 3,500 home development there

I see the Long Marston show is already planned in for June 2016 though

[ceejay]

as a huge supporter of the Nats, even being a volunteer for the last 10 years, i do have concerns that the showline as a stand alone event is risky, i attended the last showline only event and many things would have to change to tempt me to another,
the showline at the nats works because it is at the nats, its a relatively small show amongst a huge event that adds something, on its own what would/could it add to the list of events that anyone wanting to go to a show already has their pick of, i assume no hanger flying of an evening or chuck and duck, no swapmeet so what is there, if all is done is to copy what every other event does and calls it showline, ie the standard procession of slots then i fear many will go elsewhere,(along with their money) you need something new and different, aahhh!! but what,,,well its over 7 months away so time to done the thinking caps eh!!

here,s my 2p what about a theme, stop groaning at the back, take a look at the full size world for idea,s Duxford, OW to name two, or my personal favorite, Reno a show that is centered around the racing but contains a wide variety of all things aviation, and do just that centre it around some scale "racing" i mean proper pylons laps classes etc interspersed with solo/team and trade slots,(if you want trade there give them something besides a plot for their efforts), hmm

just a thunk!!

tin hat donned and skin thickening cream applied

cj

[KingKade]

I presume, this show line and stall only event will not even be called the bmfa nationals? It will be promoted as somehing else?

I do hope the bmfa can pull something out of the bag! And surprise us all!!

[ceejay]

last time it was just promoted as nationals showline

cj

[Nick Cripps]

Alternative venue: RAF Syerston.

It's a satellite airfield for Cranwell (like Barkston) and is in the same local area, a few miles SW of Newark on the A46. According to Googlemaps, it looks to be of a similar size to Barkston so should be able to host all of the usual events.

Worth investigating by the BMFA?

[ceejay]

ti certainly looks the right size on google maps, only 18 miles apart so should even allow the hotel dwellers to attend easily, its so similar that the Barkston layout would drop straight in, is it an active training sight or anything the RAF use it for that may put it out, if not i agree they should be at least askin!!

cj

[Andy Meade]

I used to live in the village of Syerston a long long time (mid 80's) ago. Dad asked the station commander (at the time) if we could fly our little high wing trainer off the main runway during the summer evenings - he said yes! I got many an hour in off that lovely tarmac, and progressed to low-wingers at the same time. We even cleared one of the old bomber dispersal pans of weeds and brush that were south of the A46 in some farmer's fields for CL flying. Ah, memories.

The last time I went past (on the now dual carriageway A46!) the training school was still flying from there in motorised gliders.

[Martin McIntosh]

The Nationals.

I have read the above posts and would now like to have my say on the matter.

I am not exactly renowned for biting my tongue so be warned.

Firstly, c/l does not really go with r/c so this could be moved, say, to the FF Nats thus freeing up a lot of space. I also find that being constantly bombarded with unsilenced high revving motors from dawn till dusk to be very annoying so what must the paying public think? You vary rarely see these anywhere else. Yes, I have flown c/l but grew out of it at about the age of 14.

I cannot fly an unsilenced r/c model so why should this be allowed?

The 2015 Nats saw the show line miles away from the rest of the stuff and I did not even bother to go there. The traders are there to sell to modellers so the general public are not likely to buy very much and it would not be worth them going. Show line plus trade is a none starter. There are plenty of other events which would cater much better for the trade.

I am appalled that the BMFA did not find out that the site would be unavailable much sooner than they did. A lot of work must have already gone into arranging caterers, toilets ,etc.. I suspect that something else has happened which we have not been told about. `Building work` must have been planned a very long time ago.

[John Privett]

Posted by Martin McIntosh on 18/01/2016 21:26:12:

I am appalled that the BMFA did not find out that the site would be unavailable much sooner than they did. A lot of work must have already gone into arranging caterers, toilets ,etc.. I suspect that something else has happened which we have not been told about. `Building work` must have been planned a very long time ago.

Here's what Keith Lomax (BMFA Hon. Treasurer) posted on another forum 6 days ago;

"We knew that the building work was planned. However, we were told that it was due to start around October 2015 and finish by June 2016, and that even if it didn't they would be able to make the perimeter track available to us. The work has not yet started - but when did a major government project ever run on time? There have been lots of discussions and negotiations behind the scenes over the last few months, but final confirmation was only made last Friday."

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[ceejay]

to single out control line for its noise is a strange one, the very reason you dont see it anywhere else all year is that you dont partake, and you are quite right in that you would not be allowed to fly unsilenced rc, then again neither would c/l if their lines were 1/4 of a mile long, (the noise footprint of rc is miles in dia) c/l in all its forms is an integral and indeed a founder part of the power nats, as to say that you grew out of it when 14 is very insulting to the many many competitors that put thousands of hours into their sport and travel from many parts of the world at their own expense to compete, and as the paying public turn up in their thousands what they think is easy to figure out.

as for the stating showline being right out of the way in 2015, ie the same place it was in 2014, is strange as its no further away from any where on the airfield being as it is at the opposite end of the same runway, and this year saw the biggest crowds there in recent years, the reasons for the late confirmation of the work was posted quite early on in this thread, and has been pointed out again since, so to blame the BMFA out of hand is wrong, so being appalled seems a tad OTT.

having read your post i assume that you do like some things there scale/heli/IMAAC funfly perhaps not to mention the indoor or swapmeet. which is great, i dont go to the Heli , IMAAC or funfly but i dont denegrate the people who take part or point out that i used to fly a funfly some 10 years ago but "grew out of it" i didn.t i just found other things more to my liking and at the nats i can find them all in one place for one glorious weekend once a year...and get to meet the people with a shared passion,,,,,, toy aeroplanes .... and we can all enjoy our toys together,

we have enough negative attitudes aimed in our direction from all quarters we dont need it from within, if anyone has issues with anything about the nats or indeed ideas that may help, politely put to them will elicit an equally polite answer, i know for a fact that Manny and Andy read all these threads,

cj

[Stevem3akm]

+1 for the above reply. Steve

[Cabbage Man]

Surely its possible to tag elements of the nationals into the many big shows that take place?

Im sure we could run some of the nationals say on a friday and the main event at the weekend? Spread over a year wouldn't be a problem. its been done before.