Andy Symons - BMFA Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 See **LINK** and **LINK** Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 Like the interactive quiz bit Andy, adds another useful aid for test candidates and it's stress free I'll get it on club website and notice board so all know about it. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Symons - BMFA Posted April 8, 2016 Author Share Posted April 8, 2016 Thanks John. We will be adding more quizzes before too long with typical A and B style supplementary questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Cotsford Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 Are the FPV questions to be applied to all tests in future? They seem a bit irrelevant for anyone not involved in FPV flying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Symons - BMFA Posted April 8, 2016 Author Share Posted April 8, 2016 Posted by Bob Cotsford on 08/04/2016 17:09:00: Are the FPV questions to be applied to all tests in future? They seem a bit irrelevant for anyone not involved in FPV flying. "It is expected that examiners will select questions that are appropriate to the test being taken, however candidates should familiarise themselves with all of the questions on the list." Just because someone currently is not involved with FPV flying it does not mean that they will not be in the future. Edited By Andy Symons - BMFA on 08/04/2016 17:25:15 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Cotsford Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 Thanks Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted April 9, 2016 Share Posted April 9, 2016 Anybody else seeing an odd result of following the link from the BMFA website - www.achievements.bmfa.org www.achievements.bmfa.org ? It takes me to the clubs map with an option to submit club details???? Andy's link is to https://achievements.bmfa.org which works as expected... Edited By Martin Harris on 09/04/2016 11:20:03 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Privett Posted April 9, 2016 Share Posted April 9, 2016 Nope! It's working fine for me Martin, and it worked fine yesterday evening too. And it makes no difference if I'm already logged-in (as club admin) on the BMFA site or not. Edited By John Privett on 09/04/2016 11:19:58 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted April 9, 2016 Share Posted April 9, 2016 Did you click on the link I provided, John? I get the same on several different browsers. ...and from my iPad! Edited By Martin Harris on 09/04/2016 11:40:48 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Dance 1 Posted April 9, 2016 Share Posted April 9, 2016 'Anybody else seeing an odd result of following the link from the BMFA website -www.achievements.bmfa.org www.achievements.bmfa.org ? It takes me to the clubs map with an option to submit club details????' Oh dear Martin you've broken the BMFA website Curiously clicking on the link you provided does exactly what you said it does. Go to the BMFA website and click on the link and it goes where you expect it to go. Go and stand in the corner and then apolgise to Andy Symons Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted April 9, 2016 Share Posted April 9, 2016 Not really, Martin - the problem is not of my making! All I did was copied and pasted the link from https://www.bmfa.org/News/News-Page where there is no clickable link and in the item titled "Achievement Scheme Handbook & Website Launched" it simply quotes www.achievements.bmfa.org. In other locations there are clickable links which resolve to the correct HTTPS URL. Edited By Martin Harris on 09/04/2016 11:53:42 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Privett Posted April 9, 2016 Share Posted April 9, 2016 Yep - clicked the link, and also typed the URL. On both Chrome and Firefox. Looks like www . achievements . bmfa . org does a redirect to achievements . org (ignore the spaces I've inserted, I think the forum code would do something with what I typed if I didn't!) Just looked using wireshark (on which I am a total amateur!) and the www address is returning a 301 'Moved permanently' reply and redirecting to the non-www address. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Privett Posted April 9, 2016 Share Posted April 9, 2016 Ah, using https I just get a connection closed error with or without the www. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Privett Posted April 9, 2016 Share Posted April 9, 2016 On the news page there is a hyperlink; To view the website go to www.achievements.bmfa.org Although the text says www. achievements . bmfa . org the link is actually to achievements . bmfa . org - without the www. (Again I've put spaces in to stop the forum code mangling what I've typed.) But, for me at least, the www address redirects to the other address... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted April 9, 2016 Share Posted April 9, 2016 Not sure what you're saying, John. What I'm seeing (and I've shift/refreshed to clear any cached info) is the page in my earlier post each time I enter www.achievements.bmfa.org As it also happens from my iPad, I'm at a loss to see how your experience can differ unless your DNS info is cached by your ISP? Edit - posts crossed. I think you're agreeing with me? Typing (or copy/pasting) the link from the news page takes you to the "clubs" page. Where a hyperlink is available, it takes you to the correct page. The error is on the news page where there is no hyperlink... Edited By Martin Harris on 09/04/2016 12:10:19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dickw Posted April 9, 2016 Share Posted April 9, 2016 Posted by Martin Harris on 09/04/2016 11:16:45: Anybody else seeing an odd result of following the link from the BMFA website - www.achievements.bmfa.org www.achievements.bmfa.org ? It takes me to the clubs map with an option to submit club details???? Andy's link is to https://achievements.bmfa.org which works as expected... Edited By Martin Harris on 09/04/2016 11:20:03 Justr tried the "www." link on both Firefox and IE and it takes me to the achievement scheme website. Never seen the club maps page. Dick ps - just tried it on an Android tablet, and yes it does take me to the club maps page. Very odd! Edited By Dickw on 09/04/2016 12:17:09 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted April 9, 2016 Share Posted April 9, 2016 I think someone on high might have been following this discussion - the item on the news page - **LINK** - now shows http not www... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted April 9, 2016 Share Posted April 9, 2016 Great idea to set up a website dedicated to the Achievement Scheme. I am a big supporter of the scheme and I believe it has done a lot to improve and underpin safe model flying as well as giving flyers a sense of achievement. So, well done BMFA for that. But,...there is a problem I'm afraid. If you are going to put up sample (or even mandatory) questions with answers, as in the "Quiz" element, then it is obviously imperative that those answers are 100%, indisputably, correct. I hope you agree? Sadly, on the sample I have seen (two attempts at the quiz) I have found this not to be the case. There is at least one question with an incorrect answer! There maybe more, I don't know as haven't seen them all. The question this relates to asks "What is the means by which parliament controls and regulates flying in the UK" (That might not be the exact wording, but it is very close and close enough for the purposes here.) The "correct" answer, according to the quiz, is "The Air Navigation Order". Only this is not correct. The ANO is in fact secondary legislation and has never been anywhere near parliament! The means by which parliament controls and regulates flying in the UK is in fact the Civil Aviation Act 2012 which is the primary legislation. The Civil Aviation Act does many things - one of which is to set up the CAA and empower them to regulate aviation. The CAA use this power to create the ANO. So the ANO is entirely created by the CAA - not by parliament. It cannot therefore by the means by which parliament regulates! Now you might feel that I'm being a bit pedantic here. You might argue that the through the ANO parliament indirectly controls aviation. But the problem is this: suppose an examiner asks this question and the candidate says "The Civil Aviation Act 2012" - the examiner is going to say "I'm sorry, you're wrong, you have failed your A-test" - only they are not wrong!! Strictly speaking, if it comes to a comparison of what they say and what the specimen answer says, they are right and the given answer is wrong. I reiterate - if you are going to put up "exemplar answers" they they have to be 100%, indisputably, unambiguously, correct! Anything else won't do. In my view this answer needs changing. Better, the question needs rewriting, the inclusion of the word "parliament" within the question is completely unnecessary. BEB Edited By Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 09/04/2016 12:25:23 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dickw Posted April 9, 2016 Share Posted April 9, 2016 Posted by Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 09/04/2016 12:23:25:................... Sadly, on the sample I have seen (two attempts at the quiz) I have found this not to be the case. There is at least one question with an incorrect answer! There maybe more, I don't know as haven't seen them all. ..................................... Edited By Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 09/04/2016 12:25:23 Good point. All the mandatory questions and and sample answers are elsewhere on the site if you want to check the rest (or just mug up before trying the quiz) :- http://achievements.bmfa.org/mandatory-questions Dick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Symons - BMFA Posted April 11, 2016 Author Share Posted April 11, 2016 Posted by Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 09/04/2016 12:23:25: Great idea to set up a website dedicated to the Achievement Scheme. I am a big supporter of the scheme and I believe it has done a lot to improve and underpin safe model flying as well as giving flyers a sense of achievement. So, well done BMFA for that. But,...there is a problem I'm afraid. If you are going to put up sample (or even mandatory) questions with answers, as in the "Quiz" element, then it is obviously imperative that those answers are 100%, indisputably, correct. I hope you agree? Sadly, on the sample I have seen (two attempts at the quiz) I have found this not to be the case. There is at least one question with an incorrect answer! There maybe more, I don't know as haven't seen them all. The question this relates to asks "What is the means by which parliament controls and regulates flying in the UK" (That might not be the exact wording, but it is very close and close enough for the purposes here.) The "correct" answer, according to the quiz, is "The Air Navigation Order". Only this is not correct. The ANO is in fact secondary legislation and has never been anywhere near parliament! The means by which parliament controls and regulates flying in the UK is in fact the Civil Aviation Act 2012 which is the primary legislation. The Civil Aviation Act does many things - one of which is to set up the CAA and empower them to regulate aviation. The CAA use this power to create the ANO. So the ANO is entirely created by the CAA - not by parliament. It cannot therefore by the means by which parliament regulates! Now you might feel that I'm being a bit pedantic here. You might argue that the through the ANO parliament indirectly controls aviation. But the problem is this: suppose an examiner asks this question and the candidate says "The Civil Aviation Act 2012" - the examiner is going to say "I'm sorry, you're wrong, you have failed your A-test" - only they are not wrong!! Strictly speaking, if it comes to a comparison of what they say and what the specimen answer says, they are right and the given answer is wrong. I reiterate - if you are going to put up "exemplar answers" they they have to be 100%, indisputably, unambiguously, correct! Anything else won't do. In my view this answer needs changing. Better, the question needs rewriting, the inclusion of the word "parliament" within the question is completely unnecessary. BEB Edited By Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 09/04/2016 12:25:23 BEB, you make an interesting point, however the 2nd paragraph of CAP 658 states "The Civil Aviation Authority is empowered to regulate all civil flying activities over the United Kingdom, including model aircraft. The rules and regulations for flying are contained in the Air Navigation order as a series of Articles, established by parliamentary statute." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 What that says Andy is that the Air Navigation Order is established by parliamentary statute - yes it is - but the statute is the Civil Aviation Act 2012 which gives the CAA the power to write and enforce the ANO. The fact remains Andy :,...if a candidate answered your question "How does parliament control aviation in the UK?" by saying "Through the Civil Aviation Act 2012" BMFA would say he was wrong - and that's worrying, because he's not wrong, he's right! The ANO has never been near parliament, wasn't written by parliament, wasn't passed by them - so how on earth can it reasonably be described as the means by which parliament controls aviation? Just change the question and remove the ambiguity - simple. Or is BMFA never wrong? BEB Edited By Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 11/04/2016 16:43:21 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DH 82A Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 Ye Gods ! The way things are going, it's going to be more difficult to fly model planes, than it is to fly full-size ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cabbage Man Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 The CAA 2012 is domestic legislation and passed by parliament.The BMFA are correct. For a moderator you should probably check the facts first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Chaddock Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 This thread is both interesting and a bit disappointing. Just imagine what a new flyer might make of reading such detailed argument about the exact legal process by which the rules are created. Surely the issue is the rules are defined in the ANOs and they are backed by legal statute. i.e. You can be prosecuted if you break them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 Posted by The Wrinkled Prune on 11/04/2016 17:38:51: The CAA 2012 is domestic legislation and passed by parliament.The BMFA are correct. For a moderator you should probably check the facts first. I know perfectly well that the CAA 2012 is domestic legislation and passed by parliament - that is my point! The ANO is NOT passed by parliament and that is also my point! I suggest that you carefully read my post of 09-04-16 timed at 12:23 and then you might understand. It would have been better is you did that before you jumped in suggesting that I checked my facts though! BEB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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