john stones 1 - Moderator Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 As it says, what would you suggest as an intro into M/R flying. It needs to be something that'll reward you as your skills improve, not too complex nor expensive, and something that'll go on TX's we already have, FPV later maybe but not essential for now. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rowland Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 This look like fun. 1 not so "old" lad interested where this may lead us. I fancy having a go at this as well John. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McG 6969 Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 BUMP, ... and what about that Skywriter Mass Build, John? Cheers Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted January 13, 2017 Author Share Posted January 13, 2017 Glad to hear it Bob, no upgrades allowed on race days though Where might it lead ? Bit of fun, better understanding, and you're same as me in that you aught to understand being an examiner...bit of funs the aim though. John P.S i can just see Dodgys face now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rowland Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 Dodgey will love it - he is a heli jockey after all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill_B Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 irrelevant post. Edited By Bill_B on 13/01/2017 18:51:08 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Barlow Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 I picked up an Ares Shadow at Cosford LMA show this year and although it does come with it's own TX it is quite nice for a toy MR.Nice and relaxing to fly and you can add the WiFi camera and view it on a smart phone etc. Cheap too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted January 13, 2017 Author Share Posted January 13, 2017 Looks o.k Chris ta, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 Hi Guys, well, as you say you need something with "growth" potential. You might want to go into FPV, aerial photography, waypoint autonomus flying etc. etc. With that in mind I think you need a separate kit airframe and buy the add on flight controller separate. And eventually add GPS etc etc. You could do a lot worse than a DJI 450 or even 550 frame. OK the genuine article is quite expensive - but there are loads of much cheaper, good qulaity, clones. Don't go for the dead cheap clones under £20 - they are often not accurate mouldings and the arms break too easily but a mid-priced clone 450 or 550 frame £40-50 or so would be fine. You'll need to add motors and ESCs - but of you go down that route I can recommend some reasonable priced units that are reliable. Also some outfits like Quadcopters may well be prepared to do you deal on a package (frame, motors, ESC's and even Flight Controller) especially if you might be buying more than one! Now, for the flight controller. You can go cheap like KK2.0 or MultiWii, but frankly they need a bit of prior knowledge (or the willingness to do a lot of homework) to get working - for example see my "build your own fully functional quad for under £100 thread here which uses the MultiWii - a good FC, but it needs a bit know-how to get it going for you. In your position I'd look at one of these three flight controllers - the DJI NAZAM V2, the NAZE32 or the PIXHAWK, with the V2 and the PIXHAWK being probably the best bets. These come with good instructions, there is a mountain of videos on YouTube about them and if all fails there are people on here that know them. They also have the advantage that being a popular choice there is load of "aftermarket" stuff for them - like controlling camera gimbals easily etc. Lots of scope for expansion, and FC's are like Rx's in as much as when you grow out of this quad you could transfer a device this power and capability into a mnuch more serious MR if you wanted to! Finally you'd need to add batteries (3s 2200 for the 450, 4s 4000 for the 550) and a receiver of your choice. This isn't the ultra cheao way in - there are loads of "toys" for that - but it's not going to break the bank either. You can think of it as the bottom end of the serious MR market. It gives you loads of scope for expansion as you learn, it will do all the things "big" MRs will do..For the package expect to pay about what you would to put a 40 size fixed wing model in the air. BEB Edited By Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 13/01/2017 20:33:47 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fun Flyer Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 Posted by john stones 1 on 13/01/2017 18:24:27: As it says, what would you suggest as an intro into M/R flying. It needs to be something that'll reward you as your skills improve, not too complex nor expensive, and something that'll go on TX's we already have, FPV later maybe but not essential for now. What a coincidence! As another Old Lad and dyed in the wool scratch builder and fixed wing flyer I've been wondering what all the fuss is about M/Rs. I have to admit that I'm fascinated by the technology and so decided to have a closer look. I've put together a 450 size "H" frame in wood, old habits die hard, and have the FC, a CC3D, and a Power Distribution Board. The motors, ESCs and Props are in transit, very slowly, from China. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted January 13, 2017 Author Share Posted January 13, 2017 Cheers BEB, i knew there was something in there but missed it when i looked in MR section. To be honest it looks beyond my ability to build/set one up from scratch, i would have to adopt Gary if i went down that route, and he snores Been looking at things like this but not sure what to make of them ? John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted January 13, 2017 Author Share Posted January 13, 2017 Yep it fascinates me FF, need to enter at shallow end though, technically challenged John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 Posted by john stones 1 on 13/01/2017 21:11:58: Cheers BEB, i knew there was something in there but missed it when i looked in MR section. To be honest it looks beyond my ability to build/set one up from scratch, i would have to adopt Gary if i went down that route, and he snores Been looking at things like this but not sure what to make of them ? John The DJI route I am suggesting John is a lot simplier than that little one I linked to. I included that as a sort of "the way perhaps not to go unless you have a tame techy on board"! The DJI with either the V2 or the Pixhawk is much easier. PeteB wanted to get into MRs for photography recently and has just sucessfully set up something just like I'm suggesting with no previous MR experience - DJI frame (clone I think) and a Pixhawk controller. Unfortunatly he is on a short break at the moment so can only look in now and then - but if he does he might pick up on this and I am sure has relevant experience to relate in this area. BEB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 Posted by Fun Flyer on 13/01/2017 21:09:20: Posted by john stones 1 on 13/01/2017 18:24:27: As it says, what would you suggest as an intro into M/R flying. It needs to be something that'll reward you as your skills improve, not too complex nor expensive, and something that'll go on TX's we already have, FPV later maybe but not essential for now. What a coincidence! As another Old Lad and dyed in the wool scratch builder and fixed wing flyer I've been wondering what all the fuss is about M/Rs. I have to admit that I'm fascinated by the technology and so decided to have a closer look. I've put together a 450 size "H" frame in wood, old habits die hard, and have the FC, a CC3D, and a Power Distribution Board. The motors, ESCs and Props are in transit, very slowly, from China. Oh that sounds interesting! Yes there is absolutely no reason why you shouldn't make your own frame - its only a set of arms when all is said and done. Any pictures FF? BEB Edited By Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 13/01/2017 23:26:32 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted January 14, 2017 Author Share Posted January 14, 2017 O.K BEB Thanks. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rowland Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 I've been looking at similar things John. Not sure how easy it will be to see compared to BEB suggestion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fun Flyer Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 Oh that sounds interesting! Yes there is absolutely no reason why you shouldn't make your own frame - its only a set of arms when all is said and done. Any pictures FF? BEB Edited By Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 13/01/2017 23:26:32 The arms are 15mm hardwood and the rest is 5mm ply. No laughing down the back!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fun Flyer Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 Posted by john stones 1 on 13/01/2017 21:14:55: Yep it fascinates me FF, need to enter at shallow end though, technically challenged John Its only technically challenging because its something we're not familiar with and we can probably fix that. Trying to flick start a reluctant two stroke on a cold morning, now that can be challenging! I plugged the CC3D into the PC for the first time last week and was blown away by the display that appeared on the screen. Can't wait to put it to some use. I have to admit that my interest was stirred by the recent series of articles in RCM&E. The Painless 360 videos are also extremely informative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 I agree wholeheartedly FF. It is different, and that can be a bit scary and off-putting. But in terms of actual difficulty? Well it comes in grades of course, but getting a well documented flight controller up and running is I think no more difficult than many other things we do routinely in the hobby. A bit of patience, read the instructions, look at the You Tube videos and maybe the odd pointer from on here and "bob's yer uncle", job done. BEB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete B Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 As BEB has mentioned, I'm unavoidably constrained to the UK and away from my hangar for another couple of months or so but I can add some thoughts on how I went about dabbling with M/Rs. I haven't related my progress so far as I could easily imagine such writings from a mod would be the Life of Brian equivalent of mentioning Jehovah.... I didn't want (and my tight-fistedness wouldn't allow me) to just write a cheque for something like a DJI Phantom and watch it fly around - I wanted to have something to get my teeth into and for which I needed to exercise a bit of grey matter. I did start with a Quanum Nova (the Phantom clone) from HK, which needed a bit of fettling to get airworthy and learning on that certainly taught me a lot about the fundamentals of M/R flying. The Nova came with an APM flight controller, which introduced me to Mission Planner, the GUID which allows you to set all the parameters for flight. It flew OK for a time but eventually developed a stability issue I haven't been able to resolve. It's ability to lift a camera was also a bit limited so I decided the best way would be to do the research and build a quad from the ground up, with a bit more lifting power and duration. The APM f/c is getting a bit long in the tooth and slow now but fortunately the 32-bit Pixhawk became available and that is very much more sophisticated and versatile and, more importantly uses the same Mission Planner software. Banggood do a range of Pixhawks and I have a couple of these, which I've found 100% reliable and cheap as chips. I used an HK X650F frame which I extended to 740mm, some Multistar 850kv motors and 3S packs, which got the outfit in the air, albeit with more limited performance than I had hoped. I've now a set of 700kv Sunnysky motors which, on larger props, will give it a bit more oomph and duration - when I can get out and get on with it. I've also got a DJI F550 hexacopter which I've recently set up and test-flown - it seems a very stable platform for what I want - but I'm still working on it. M/R's haven't replaced my fixed-wing modelling but they have added an entirely new dimension to model flying. There's a lot to learn and it's been a fascinating journey so far. They certainly make aerial photography/video a much less hit-and-miss affair than with fixed wing. They are a very different flying experience too - parking a M/R in the air whilst you decide what to do next is a bit of a novelty, I must admit. There's an undeniable buzz, too, when you've set up the failsafe, fly the MR a couple of hundred metres away, then switch off the Tx and watch it obediently return home and land at the launch point! I'm far from expert on these but if you have any questions, I'll do my best to answer them Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff S Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 This thread has inspired me to look around at more practical MR aircraft than the little WMtoys one I bought a couple of years ago to fly indoors - it's pretty hopeless outside if there's any wind at all. I looked for a kit to build on the possibly mistaken assumption that it would be cheaper and came across this DJI 450 kit which seems to have most of the bells and whistles but at a price (£249). From the same supplier, the NAZAM flight controller alone is £139 plus another £42 for the PMU (Power Management Unit?) so the bare frame is around the £50 mentioned above. Would this be a reasonable route to take? I'm very new to quads/MR and also old (77 a couple of days ago!) but I do have a lifetime's of high tech experience albeit with something of a hiatus since I retired. I'm still not sure I can justify the expense but I can't take it with me Geoff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fun Flyer Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 This thread is taking on a rather "confessional" air!! These are the components I decided on: Motors; **LINK** ESCs; **LINK** Props; **LINK** Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Manuel Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 Posted by Fun Flyer on 14/01/2017 15:40:41: This thread is taking on a rather "confessional" air!! Forgive them father, for they have sinned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff S Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 Posted by Fun Flyer on 14/01/2017 15:40:41: This thread is taking on a rather "confessional" air!! These are the components I decided on: Motors; **LINK** ESCs; **LINK** Props; **LINK** Well, I'm quite a fan of Banggood, too. They've always been quick to respond to (minor and few so far) problems I've had and the time scale for delivery has been reasonable considering it's from China. I'm just idly looking but you know where that can lead Geoff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iqon Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 Window shopping with a difference - you know as soon as you start looking you are going to buy.....just like cars. Edited By iqon on 14/01/2017 17:22:24 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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