Bomb Dropping from my Super 60

[Denis Watkins]

apocryphal

əˈpɒkrɪf(əl/

adjective

1. (of a story or statement) of doubtful authenticity, although widely circulated as being true.

   "an apocryphal story about a former president"

   of or belonging to the Apocrypha.

   • "the apocryphal Gospel of Thomas"

[John Stainforth]

Ok, a bomb is somewhat like an model plane - but one that is completely out of control. But what are the differences?

(1) Bombs end up coming more or less straight down, so that if they do hit someone, there is quite a chance of being hit directly on top of the head.

(2) They make very little noise

(3) They are not at all visible and are not likely to be seen unless one happens to be watching the plane at the moment of release. If the release is accidental, the chances of that are small. (In the incident I mentioned above, I only saw the bomb being released early - and watched it come down - because by sheer chance I just happened to be looking at the model a long way from the "drop zone" at the moment of accidental release. Not a single other club member was aware of it coming down until the very loud impact, although I had just had time to shout a warning. The club unanimously decided to ban all bombs from that time on.)

(4) They can reach a surprising speed, meaning lots of kinetic energy and very little warning time between the moment of accidental release and impact.

One could argue, I suppose, that the seriousness depends on the bomb weight. In the incident I have outlined, the bombs started off quite light, but the protagonists got carried away and were experimenting with heavier and heavier water bombs, partly because they did make an impressive splat when they hit the concrete runway (the intended impact area).

[Alan Gorham_]

John

All valid points, but most if not all of them are easily addressed by the risk management we have already seen in this thread.

Any idiot can do idiotic things with an R/C aircraft, not just limited to dropping bombs. But the point is that we are not all idiots...

[John Stainforth]

Alan,

Even the most un-idiotic person is capable of doing something idiotic. The person who made the mistake in the incident I mentioned above is one of the most experienced and best model aircraft pilots I have ever seen, and he makes a living by flying 737's for a major airline!

I think it is better to approach safety from the Murphy's Law direction: "Whatever can go wrong, will go wrong".

[thunderstreak.keith]

whats the difference between controlled bomb drops, free flight anything(no d/t or radio assist, just a plain free flight) and more importantly a fireworks display? take a walk a few miles out from where the display took place and i am sure you will find some rocket debris.My answer is to drop bombs (if you must) from a safe reasonable low level.by the looks of that video there was noway you could know where that bomb was going to fall.following the bomb on video was like watching a tee off on the tv.I have never once followed that ball from the time it was hit til the time it landed. Flying sites are treasured items,to be used sensibly to ensure long time use. it only takes 1 false move

[Cliff 1959]

I didn't expect any comments to my thread but there's loads of good points.
As can be seen from my video, the bomb is small, approximately 8cm long and weighs 4g, including the attached ribbon, I don't think it reached much in the way of velocity.
I only posted the video because it actually landed between my feet!

[Alan Gorham_]

John with great respect: how do you guarantee that every R/C model flight you make "can't go wrong"?

[J D 8]

If you want something model flying that looks totally idiotic,then look no further than the evening free flight session at the BMFA nationals.  Also I would be there if job and distance would allow.

Between the feet Cliff. Ace.

 

Edited By J D 8 on 26/03/2018 17:29:49

[Chris Barlow]

Posted by John Stainforth on 26/03/2018 16:41:56:

Alan,

Even the most un-idiotic person is capable of doing something idiotic. The person who made the mistake in the incident I mentioned above is one of the most experienced and best model aircraft pilots I have ever seen, and he makes a living by flying 737's for a major airline!

I think it is better to approach safety from the Murphy's Law direction: "Whatever can go wrong, will go wrong".

Best not start that engine or take off then!

Paul & I spot for each other with the added benefit there is a chance of finding it in the field! We also call the bomb release even if there's no one else there. Great fun calling "Bomb away" then flicking the switch!

On the slope we also have spotters as Andy has said. My own mission involves carpet bombing from a Vulcan with a bomb bay containing up to 8 scale 500Lb bombs, each about 1 " long made of foam with a 1/8 sq balsa core.

Leathal or dangerous? I don't think so. Indeed maybe 35mhz models may be more of a liability...

[John Stainforth]

Alan,

My point is that I don't guarantee that things "can't go wrong". Surely we try to have contingency plans for when things do (occasionally) go wrong. (The worst I have had with model planes was pieces stripping off through flutter - , I just managed to land it with one elevator, the rudder and two broken wings!)

[Alan Gorham_]

Yes and that's the point. Everybody who has actually done bomb drops in this thread has had some contingency plans and they've all pointed out that by doing so, then dropping a bomb from a model is no more risky than actually flying the model. No more, no less.

[Cliff 1959]

Hi Piers, to answer your question, as the model was originally ic it's quite weighty what with the half inch square bearers etc. I have two battery options either one 5000mah 4 cell, which gives me over 12 minutes in the air, or two 2200mah 3 cells in parallel, as you can imagine I don't need any nose weight, the prop is a 12x6, the esc is 60amp and the motor is an AGM 2820/07. It cruises around on half throttle.
If you're building from scratch your's should be considerably lighter and probably fly for much longer.

Edited By Cliff 1959 on 26/03/2018 17:51:50

[Piers Bowlan]

If you want absolute safety best not leave the house. No, on second thoughts there are more accidents in the home than anywhere else! Being hit by a golf ball is a clear and present danger of playing golf and has a lot more energy than a 4g bomb attached to a ribbon. Or how about watching a cricket match? As far as I can tell, striking the ball for six usually involves the 160g ball landing somewhere among the spectators. A lot of it depends on people's attitude to risk.

The BMFA article 94 is clear 'A person must not cause or permit any article or animal (whether or not attached to a parachute) to be dropped from a small unmanned aircraft so as to endanger persons or property.' So it is down to you to decide whether a 4g 'bomb' is likely to do that. Not in my book but we are all different in how we perceive risk.

[SIMON CRAGG]

Posted by Cliff 1959 on 26/03/2018 16:54:29:
I didn't expect any comments to my thread but there's loads of good points.
As can be seen from my video, the bomb is small, approximately 8cm long and weighs 4g, including the attached ribbon, I don't think it reached much in the way of velocity.
I only posted the video because it actually landed between my feet!

Brilliant video, well done!.

Based on all the laughter, you all enjoyed it.

We have done this countless times over the years.

In the past we have dropped small parachutists, action men, plastic bombs etc.

Nobody was killed, maimed, no insurance claims were submitted. No risk assessment, H&S policy displayed, cones, coloured tape, warning triangles, first aid kit, two way radios. No NOTAM's, hard hats................nothing!

We did, and still do....just enjoy what this fantastic hobby is all about................................FUN!.

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

I reckon a group of people that can build/fly and manage the complexities of model flying can drop a few bombs for fun without consulting the Geneva convention...mind you don't drop em on my Grannies chippie though.

[thunderstreak.keith]

back in the 60`s when i was just a little "fetchermite" (remember them?) my uncle strapped my pride and joy,red devil action man to his twice size super 60. released by a DT fuse down he floated. I searched forever but couldnt find him. I walked those fields for weeks untill i spotted his ripped up chute. On the way back home not far from action man landing spot I found an 18" blue solid balsa wing. Looking up The rest of a yellow biplane fuzzy and blue lower wing hanging from a tree. I retrieved that and took both to uncle toms house. It was his free flighter with a small diesel attached. Action man found it on his search and rescue mission in the fields and jungles of tonyrefail. That plane was lost 6 months earlier and given up as lost. Well done action man on a successful search and rescue mission.where can i get another action man red devil circa 1965 ish? what fun us fetchermites had.

[Devcon1]

Not as productive a mission as the AM belonging to thunderstreak.keith but my Action Man has performed in multiple operational modes.

As a simple parachute AM.

And after release.

And riding shotgun.

We have dropped him as a human torpedo sans parachute and he lived to tell the tale.

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

He'll have somebodies eye out with that gun.

[PatMc]

Posted by John Stainforth on 26/03/2018 16:21:52:

Ok, a bomb is somewhat like an model plane - but one that is completely out of control. But what are the differences?

(1) Bombs end up coming more or less straight down, so that if they do hit someone, there is quite a chance of being hit directly on top of the head.

(2) They make very little noise

(3) They are not at all visible and are not likely to be seen unless one happens to be watching the plane at the moment of release. If the release is accidental, the chances of that are small. (In the incident I mentioned above, I only saw the bomb being released early - and watched it come down - because by sheer chance I just happened to be looking at the model a long way from the "drop zone" at the moment of accidental release. Not a single other club member was aware of it coming down until the very loud impact, although I had just had time to shout a warning. The club unanimously decided to ban all bombs from that time on.)

(4) They can reach a surprising speed, meaning lots of kinetic energy and very little warning time between the moment of accidental release and impact.

One could argue, I suppose, that the seriousness depends on the bomb weight. In the incident I have outlined, the bombs started off quite light, but the protagonists got carried away and were experimenting with heavier and heavier water bombs, partly because they did make an impressive splat when they hit the concrete runway (the intended impact area).

(1) A "bomb" falling verticaly is less likey to hit a person than a model descending at a less than 90° angle. The shallower the angle the greater the risk of hitting someone.

(2) A glider is also silent, as are many electric models & in some instances fly away models of any type. Failsafe requirements for powered models that have lost radio contact would make them silent or near silent.

(3) To a casual passerby most models are not visible. To fellow modelers a model in flight isn't necessarily holding their attention so in effect isn't "visible".

(4) Speed of a free falling body depends on it's terminal velocity. Raindrops keep fallin' on my head but that doesn't mean my hair will soon be turnin' red...

[PatMc]

Here’s a true story of a dropping an object from a model for a functional purpose:

Back in the ‘50’s or ‘60’s an Aussie free flight glider flier wanted to have some sort of dethermaliser on his model. He couldn’t afford a timer & was barred from using the fuse burning through rubber band method (common in the UK) due to the high fire risk in Queensland where he lived.
Instead of the more common pop up tail he decided dumping the nose weight after a few minutes of flight would have the desired effect.

Method he devised was first to catch a few cane toads & keep them in a container until required.
Just before towing the glider up he would select a toad, give it a whiff of diesel fuel – just enough to knock it out – then install it in the driving seat.
It usually took the toad 4 or 5 minutes to recover & jump ship thus achieving the desired DT operation.

No doubt he would have used Frog diesel fuel.

[Devcon1]

Done with due caution it's a fun addition to a days flying in my eyes.

Here's my Fun Cub with new Stores. Taped in place for photos but this will be the actual position.

The bombs were £6.00 each from HK including the servo.

[ChrisB]

I don't wish to alarmist and I have a P47 with HK bomb releases. BUT is it wise to have a thread discussing this theme, given the likely sensitivities by certain 'authorities' or clandestine activities. More perception than reality of course.

[Piers Bowlan]

Posted by Cliff 1959 on 26/03/2018 17:50:19:
Hi Piers, to answer your question, as the model was originally ic it's quite weighty what with the half inch square bearers etc. I have two battery options either one 5000mah 4 cell, which gives me over 12 minutes in the air, or two 2200mah 3 cells in parallel, as you can imagine I don't need any nose weight, the prop is a 12x6, the esc is 60amp and the motor is an AGM 2820/07. It cruises around on half throttle.
If you're building from scratch your's should be considerably lighter and probably fly for much longer.

Edited By Cliff 1959 on 26/03/2018 17:51:50

Thank you Cliff for that comprehensive answer. I think a bit of extra weight probably helps with penetration in a breeze and the model certainly flies well.

[J D 8]

Cane toad DT, that made me smile,

.

[Alan Gorham_]

Posted by ChrisB on 26/03/2018 21:12:32:

I don't wish to alarmist and I have a P47 with HK bomb releases. BUT is it wise to have a thread discussing this theme, given the likely sensitivities by certain 'authorities' or clandestine activities. More perception than reality of course.

Is it wise to have a forum discussing the use of remotely piloted vehicles that could be used for "clandestine activities" at all.? Come on Chris! We are discussing legitimate hobby activities here for goodness sake.

Given the use that cars and vans have been put to in the UK recently in attacking innocent people, perhaps we should ban all cars?