Andy Meade Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 Great result, thankfully we have an association like the BMFA to stand up for us and see this sort of thing through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul C. Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 Hi all, great news I am on hols and on my phone so apologies for typos. Does the exemptions apply to none BMFA,lma etc. Some clubs members have other insurance cover.Paul. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 An absolutely excellent result - well done to all involved, it's everything we could reasonably have hoped for. Seems the OP was little premature! I am particularly pleased that the exemption applies to all members, including country members flying at non-club sites. I had a real fear from the outset that that distinction may be made. But no, it hasn't been and that is a mighty relief to us all. Happy flying everyone! BEB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 Posted by Paul C. on 25/07/2018 09:17:50: Hi all, great news I am on hols and on my phone so apologies for typos. Does the exemptions apply to none BMFA,lma etc. Some clubs members have other insurance cover. Paul. The wording specifically states that the exemption only applies to members of the 4 associations which negotiated it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul C. Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 Thanks Martin that how I read it.Paul. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuban8 Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 Something positive to applaud for my 2000th post (must get out more). BTW, has anyone spotted any delivery drones lately? - still waiting.........and waiting.......... and waiting . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erfolg Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 The rabbit has been pulled out of the hat, and it is a pretty good looking one at that. As one who feared that the 400 foot limit would be the beginning of the end of our hobby, I am much relieved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Whitehead 1 Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 Congratulations to the BMFA and the allied associations for negotiating an excellent result. There's just one area which I've been trying to clarify by reading the new permission document, the ANO Article 94, the relevant but now out-of date BMFA Handbook sections 8.1(4)(b) and 8.1(4)(c) and the BMFA update. The old BMFA rules (2017 edition) page14, paras 8.1(4), 8.1(4)(b) and 8.1(4)(c) were perfectly clear that model flying within an aerodrome traffic zone was restricted to below 400ft for models weighing over 7kg and that those weighing less than 7kg weren't so restricted. Note that para 8.1(4) subsumes all subsequent sub-paras. The new permission document isn't quite so clear. Para 3a of the permission does state that the mass of the SUA shall not exceed 7kg etc, but does not subsume para 3d, which states that the permission shall not apply to any flight within the flight restriction zone of a protected aerodrome ... etc. This means to me that the old rule whereby you could fly a sub-7kg model above 400ft within an air traffic zone has gone, but I might be wrong. The BMFA update states that any model aircraft flying within 1km of the boundary of a licensed airfield at any height will have to be with the permission of the airfield air traffic control or airfield operator. Clearly this applies to all models whether under or over 7kg. Is this 1km limit the same as the "flight restriction zone" mentioned earlier, which is a far smaller area than the ATZ? Or does "flight restriction zone" mean "ATZ" What I'd like to have clarified, in the context of the majority of model flyers, is this: which of the following statements applies in regards to, say, Manchester Airport ATZ, Birmingham Airport ATZ, etc: a. Nothing flies over 400ft b. Models under 7kg can still fly over 400ft but those over 7kg are prohibited. There are quite a lot of model flyers located near airports who will be affected by the answer. Gordon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kc Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 If the exemption applies only to members of the 4 associations then it means we are forced to stay members of BMFA or LMA etc! It gives them a monopoly....... But where do the non BMFA/LMA etc members stand? What laws apply to them from now on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Whitehead 1 Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 The law is that the Air Navigation Order applies to every man woman and child in this country. Edited By Gordon Whitehead 1 on 25/07/2018 12:59:42 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kc Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 But some have exemption! What rules apply to non BMFA etc members? Edited By kc on 25/07/2018 13:07:18 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Symons - BMFA Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 Posted by kc on 25/07/2018 12:53:13: If the exemption applies only to members of the 4 associations then it means we are forced to stay members of BMFA or LMA etc! It gives them a monopoly....... But where do the non BMFA/LMA etc members stand? What laws apply to them from now on? Not forced at all. Either don't fly above 400ft or apply for your own personal exemption, you will need to submit an operational safety case and pay the fee which is about £1800.00 + VAT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kc Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 Andy, you know that means in practice we are forced to be members of one of these 4 organisations because no individual could afford the £1800 fee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FilmBuff Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 Great result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Symons - BMFA Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 Posted by kc on 25/07/2018 13:11:24: Andy, you know that means in practice we are forced to be members of one of these 4 organisations because no individual could afford the £1800 fee. It is however a choice you can make. Makes the £34 BMFA membership fee look even more of a bargain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel R Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 A thorough well done to all involved, many thanks to reps from BMFA & others. Excellent news indeed and a better outcome than I had hoped for Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Whitehead 1 Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 Posted by Andy Symons - BMFA on 25/07/2018 13:13:51: It is however a choice you can make. Makes the £34 BMFA membership fee look even more of a bargain. It's always been a bargain since I joined back in the 1960's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel R Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 Its not even that bad. You can not join and still fly (under 400ft)! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Blandford Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 Well done to all from me as well. I does seem that my Qudratwirl (4-rotor autogyro) is still limited to under 400 feet (not that I think I'd see it that well above that anyway, and I mostly flew it indoors). Does an autogyro have "lifting rotor or rotors", even though it/they are not powered? I would think so! Is the Tony Nijhuis Harrier restricted to 400 feet as it has 4, lift generating "rotors"? Note, I'm not being negative, we have an excellent result, just thinking about clarifying things. Clearly, if in doubt, keep below 400 feet. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kc Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 I didn't moan about the cost of BMFA subs even though they are almost 7 times the cost they were in 1984 when I first joined! What i don't agree with is giving any organisation ( or group of them ) a monopoly. It's a bad principle. It's rather like saying you can drive on the ordinary roads but you must be a member of the AA or RAC to drive on motorways! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martyn K Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 With all respect, but to those complaining that this exemption only applied to members of the 4 organisations listed, but what else would you expect? Making it open to everyone would simply remove the requirement for any legislation at all. Personally, I think its a great result and I am thoroughly delighted. Regarding Gordon's point I think the new 'within 1km of an airfield' rule now takes precedence over the old 'operating within ATC/ATZ' rules previously published. If so, it makes it far clearer and easier to comply with - except for aircraft > 7kg which are restricted to 400ft ATL regardless. I expect that a process to gain individual exemptions - i.e. ring ATC - may follow in due course. Martyn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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